Otokonoyama Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Rewind to 1998 Nagano Olympics, Canadian snowboarder tests positive for pot and is questioned by Japanese police:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sport/winter_ol...board/55827.stm He later got to keep his medal and I don't believe he was ever charged with anything. Was he a rikishi? I think not-this is sumo and we play by different standards. I bet the farm they are gone by the end of the week, providing the additional tests prove positive as well. No, obviously he was not a rikishi, he was a snowboarder. But there have been general comments above about people charged just for blood tests and here was another foreign athelete questioned by police (but in this case not charged IIRC) so I thought I would offer it as a comparison; as well, this snowboarder claimed it was secondhand smoke which is what is being bandied about for these Russian brothers. I can understand why the kyokai might expel these guys for the test but not why the Japanese police would be more strict with a foreign rikishi than with any other foreign athelete who only had a blood test because of competition rules. Does Japan allow workplace urine checks for general workers? Don't think the comparison is valid here. The athlete in question got his dose of "second hand pot smoke" at a party in Canada, according to his testimony. As his crime was very likely not committed in Japan (procuring and using drugs in Japan), he was let go. Our Russian brothers will have a much more difficult time proving they did not get and use drugs while residing and working in Japan. Or that they had no knowledge of the law here.
Otokonoyama Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) Are the rapid drug tests as accurate as GC/MS?Urine drug tests are qualitative screening devices, which means they only determine the presence of drugs at detection limits comparable to SAMHSA cut-off concentration. GC/MS (Das Chromatography / Mass spectroscopy) is a laboratory technique that uses sophisticated equipment quantifies the concentration of drugs in the sample. This technique takes time and is very expensive. What are the drug screening cutoff concentrations? The SAMHSA cutoff levels are as follows: Cannabis / Marijuana 50 ng/ml Is it possible to test positive for THC (Marijuana / Cannabis) from exposure to second hand smoke? It is not! Urine concentrations of THC above the cut-off sensitivity level of the test, or a positive result, is possible only through use / inhalation. However, second hand smoke will be in the system, but not at the concentrations that would indicate drug abuse. http://www.drug-testing-kits.com/drug-test-faq.html Edited September 2, 2008 by Otokonoyama
Mark Buckton Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Since neither Roho nor Hakurozan were in Mongolia as far as I understand, correct?
Kintamayama Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Since neither Roho nor Hakurozan were in Mongolia as far as I understand, correct? Rohou was kyujo and Hakurozan is juryo, so I guess not.
Otokonoyama Posted September 2, 2008 Posted September 2, 2008 Wakanoho, AFAIK, is still in police custody. They have 23 days from the time of arrest to question him. He has very limited ability to see a lawyer (who would, as Nish mentioned, not give him the same advice an American lawyer would), or to see embassy or Ozumo officials. They have his cell phone, any email and also snail mail, and his answers to a lot of very difficult questions he's being asked...
Otokonoyama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Police searched three locations late Tuesday through early Wednesday after two Russian wrestlers, Roho and Hakurozan, tested positive for marijuana in the wake of the arrest of another Russian grappler on suspicion of possessing the drug.The three locations are Roho
_the_mind_ Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Prof. Yohei Onishi (Member of the Prevention Committee and supervisor of Kyokai's drug testing program)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Using the same urine Roho was tested three times and Hakurozan, twice but they all came back positive. We could ascertain if it was a result of second hand smoke or primarily ingested by more exhaustive testing. The Kyokai must make a firm stand against the use of stimulants and illegal drugs." this is a point that no one has made so far in the thread, i havent read all the way through so i apologize if it gets mentioned before my post but after Jonosuke's. but you CAN test positive for just being around the smokeing of weed even if you arent partaking of it. if these two want to get out of this they need to tell everyone that wakanoho smoked around them and they didnt smoke. admitt to lying when saying they didnt know he was doing it. ...he is already under the bus, this would be the only defense they might possibly have for the people from the US who are making a distinction between using/ having and testing positive, in the US you would likely get charged with "internal possession of a controled or illegal substance" ....yes "internal possession" is a crime here, in japan it might not be.
_the_mind_ Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) Is it possible to test positive for THC (Marijuana / Cannabis) from exposure to second hand smoke? It is not! Urine concentrations of THC above the cut-off sensitivity level of the test, or a positive result, is possible only through use / inhalation. However, second hand smoke will be in the system, but not at the concentrations that would indicate drug abuse. http://www.drug-testing-kits.com/drug-test-faq.html breathing the air around you IS "inhalation"(lest you are holding your breath the whole time). if the room is thick and smokey with weed, but at that point you are there because you want to be, not because you dont want to test positive. ...but one could say without lying they werent "smokeing".....however the people in this case would likely still get kicked out for it, as they didnt leave when it was going on as they should have, provided they didnt actually smoke, which they probably did. regardless, they shouldnt have been in that situation to ingest anything. so its still their bad Edited September 3, 2008 by _the_mind_
Otokonoyama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 That's why the threshold of these card tests is so high (pardon the pun) - so as not to get a positive at a minute level, where second-hand smoke could be a possible cause. As these two tested over the cut-off on repeated tests, the futher test (gas chromatography) will confirm just how far over the threshold they are. To reiterate, they'd have to be around second-hand pot smoke all day, every day, to trigger those card tests. Possible, perhaps, but quite remote.
Otokonoyama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) Yahoo is reporting that the investigation of the brothers Roho and Hakurozan is not complete. The police will be talking to perhaps the brothers again, as well as anyone else who may be able to shed some light on the situation... Edited September 3, 2008 by Otokonoyama
Hashira Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Roho, speaking to reporters outside his heya said neither him nor his brother have ever used, seen or touched it, and is asking for a re-test
Kintamayama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) this is a point that no one has made so far in the thread, i havent read all the way through so i apologize if it gets mentioned before my post but after Jonosuke's. but you CAN test positive for just being around the smokeing of weed even if you arent partaking of it. if these two want to get out of this they need to tell everyone that wakanoho smoked around them and they didnt smoke. admitt to lying when saying they didnt know he was doing it. .. They can't because officials stated clearly that these tests are three day results. Wakanohou was arrested more than a week ago.. Edited September 3, 2008 by Kintamayama
Kintamayama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Roho, speaking to reporters outside his heya said neither him nor his brother have ever used, seen or touched it, and is asking for a re-test Great idea. By the time a re-test will be done, it will be out of their system.
Kintamayama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Stuff from the last hour: Hakurozan's home was thoroughly searched-nothing was found. He is denying using. Investigators are saying that if you are a regular user, residue can be found in your urine even after 10 days, so the three day thingy seems to be moot, and that could explain some strange stuff.. Rohou did keiko-closed to the public-at the heya this morning. He trained for about 2 hours starting at 6:40 am. Last night he was severely reprimanded by former shisho ex-Taihou, who summoned him for another talk immediately after keiko. Rohou is expected to be questioned by the police some more today. Hakurozan, OTOH, did not participate in today's keiko, although it is rumored that he is at the heya. "I've never seen or touched the stuff!!", said Rohou.
Kintamayama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Rohou held a press conference today. P: Have you ever smoked the stuff? R: I have never had any experience with drugs. P: But your urine test was positive.. R: I have been suffering from severe back pains- so bad I could hardly walk. I've been on pain-killers and all sorts of medication lately.I'd like to go to a hospital and re-do the test. P: Your brother has also tested positive.. R: We both have never seen or touched the stuff. P: Is it possible you were subject to second-hand smoke? R: These last few days my back pains are so bad I haven't been outside! P: Did you know of Wakanohou's "using"? R: I've never seen him smoking, nor heard any rumors about him!
Otokonoyama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 He didn't smack any reporters, did he? ;-)
Kintamayama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) Hakurozan press conference-early this morning: P: We've heard you disagree with the test results.. H: I myself definitely have not done this kind of thing. Nothing was found in the police's DNA test. They found nothing at my home or in my heya. P: What is your reaction on testing positive? H: I think these tests sometimes give mistaken results. I have never smoked second-hand smoke either. P: What did the police question you about? H: I was asked all kinds of stuff, including if I ever smoked weed. I said I never did! P: What now? H: They can test me and investigate me as many times as they like, I don't mind. I am confident of my innocence. I will cooperate with any further searches if needed. Edited September 3, 2008 by Kintamayama
Kintamayama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 He didn't smack any reporters, did he? ;-) Nor did he smoke them either.
kame Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Thanks a ton for the updates, as usual, Kintamayama. I've never really liked either of the Karamazov Bros. one bit so I admit I enjoy this circus. We all know they're smokers, right? I find it incredible that they didn't stop cold right after Wakanoho lost his wallet, etc., what? 2 months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if they hooked up Wakanoho initially as well. They're playing their last card right now.
aderechelsea Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 ;-) :-D i am tired of all this .... The guys are obviously guilty (no need for a drug test to believe this) and i suppose both are goners from Sumo. If they keep them in it will be great hypocrisy from the Kyokai's part. well ... at least see the bright side ... hair density will rise and henka occurrence will fall in sekitori ranks ... :-P life goes on even without any Ossetians in Sumo.
Kintamayama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Otake Oyakata is standing by his man Rohou. "If he says he didn't do it, he didn't do it! These tests are not 100% accurate!", he said. In the meantime, The riji are at the KKan searching for quick ways to control the damage. Oonishi doping man is there as well, and already has let it be known that the more serious tests will take longer than three days to verify. Takanohana Oyakata had his say as well. "I would like to believe them when they say they haven't done it. I am praying for that. I wish it would all end well", he said. "If it turns out to be true, this will have truly grave repercussions. If the fans will be worried for sumo, that will still be OK. But if the fans lose faith, they will be asking the Kyokai serious questions. Those are real possibilities", he summed.
ilovesumo Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 What if it's all a fake to kick them out? ;-) (I don't think so, but somehow I indeed-as Taka said- lost faith...) About Alan...well, I think only the "bad guys" were tested...
Asashosakari Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 About Alan...well, I think only the "bad guys" were tested... There are 69 bad guys in makuuchi and juryo?
ilovesumo Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 About Alan...well, I think only the "bad guys" were tested... There are 69 bad guys in makuuchi and juryo? Nope. I just meant the very few trouble makers. Alan is none of those.
Otokonoyama Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Takanohana oyakata has been reported as saying that if the Russian brothers positive drug tests are confirmed, it may be prudent to stop the Aki basho...
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