What will the Kyokai do now - Roho and Hakurozan Issue?

[Jonosuke]

Now that Roho and Hakurozan were found positive for marijuana after the Kyokai did a surprise urine test, what will the Kyokai be doing?

Basically they have not arrested by police but obviously they broke a Kyokai rule against substance use. But if I recall the Kyokai does not have any specific penalty set for such use.

I also recall for steroid testing, they indicated they would not publicly announce the results and would not name the names but this time they did.

So this all points toward their suspension at the Aki Basho or worse?

[Hashira]

if i had to wager, i would say gone from sumo.

[Asashosakari]

Oh you have gotta be kiddin' me...

Since I'm pretty much clueless about these things I had to google around, and apparently marijuana can be detectable for up to a month if you're unlucky...maybe they'll claim they stopped using immediately after Wakanoho's arrest? Of course they did previously say that knew nothing about what was going on; that alone will likely get them suspended for Aki, regardless of what comes out of their own failed drug test.

[hidenohana]

Now that Roho and Hakurozan were found positive for marijuana after the Kyokai did a surprise urine test, what will the Kyokai be doing?

Assuming that you are not providing a hypothetical case,Jonosuke, and assuming that this is official and in the public domain,I assume they're going to be kicked out of sumo,if only for consistency's sake.

Edited September 2, 2008 by hidenohana

[Fay]

Now that Roho and Hakurozan were found positive for marijuana after the Kyokai did a surprise urine test, what will the Kyokai be doing?

Assuming that you are not providing a hypothetical case,Jonosuke, and assuming that this is official and in the public domain,I assume they're going to be kicked out of sumo,if only for consistency's sake.

Unfortunately not a hypothetical case, it already was in the japanese news and mentioned already here: Doping tests

[Asashosakari]

Assuming that you are not providing a hypothetical case,Jonosuke, and assuming that this is official and in the public domain,I assume they're going to be kicked out of sumo,if only for consistency's sake.

The "consistency" argument breaks down (for now, anyway) because Roho and Hakurozan a) haven't been arrested, and b) haven't admitted to committing a felony. Wakanoho wasn't simply dismissed for drug usage.

On the way down?

[Umigame]

Hakurozan is a member of Kitanoumi's heya...

I wonder, will Kitanoumi offer his resignation -- as Magaki oyakata did to take responsibility for Wakanoho?

Will he? Should he?

[Hashira]

I find it hard to believe that these three foreign rikishi would all have been smoking and not a single japanese/mongolian, etc, tried.

while marijuana is widely vilified in japan, most rikishi are not the most well-educated, i think they would be more likely to try than the average salaryman,

rikishi would seem likely also to be more confident in being able to have something like this swept under the rug in the event they did get found out.

i am interested to see if the Russians were the only ones tested for marijuana

[hidenohana]

b) haven't admitted to committing a felony.

How else did the cannabis get into their urine,if not through committing a felony???

They're screwed.

[Asashosakari]

How else did the cannabis get into their urine,if not through committing a felony???

They're screwed.

The point is, if Wakanoho hadn't admitted anything, he'd likely be in the same situation (vis-a-vis the Kyokai) as the three arrested Tokitsukaze-beya rikishi, i.e. in suspended limbo until the whole thing has worked its way through the legal system. C'mon, it can't be that difficult to see the distinction. (Especially since, as Jonosuke noted, the Kyokai itself likely has no specific rules for dealing with drug offenses yet, be they recreational or performance-enhancing.)

[Asashosakari]

Meanwhile, Sports Hochi keeps updating their article every 20 minutes or so...

Cliff notes version: Roho and Hakurozan made a "voluntary" trip to the police station after being tested positive, where both strongly denied any drug usage. Urin samples have been sent in for further tests with results expected to come in within the next 48 hours.

Also, Shohei Onishi, member of the Kyokai's anti-doping committee, has shot down my line of thinking from above, stating that the used test would only come back positive if the last drug usage was at most two or three days ago. FWIW...

Edited September 2, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Azumashida]

apparently marijuana can be detectable for up to a month if you're unlucky

Yes, that is what I have understood. I have also heard that these tests are not very reliable, though I don't know what their legal status is.

Basically they have not arrested by police but obviously they broke a Kyokai rule against substance use. But if I recall the Kyokai does not have any specific penalty set for such use.

Since neither Roho nor Hakurozan were in Mongolia as far as I understand, I suppose it cannot be denied that they consumed marijuana in Japan, which in a sense makes it worse. Not that I believe Mongolia to be more lenient than Japan on this issue (I have no idea), but I suppose they couldn't be arrested in Japan for smoking pot in another country (or?). To take an extreme example, if they had gone to a jungyo in Holland, I suppose they would be "safe" from the legal viewpoint (?).

Now, I suppose that these considerations would anyway make little difference to the Kyokai in the very particular context of today. I guess they're out (edit: if the positive test is indeed confirmed).

Edited September 2, 2008 by Azumaryu

[Otokonoyama]

As noted in the Wakanoho topic:

People can be convicted of drug use based on positive blood or urine tests alone, and multiple Americans are now serving time in Japanese prisons as the result of sting operations and the use of informants.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1148.html

[Otokonoyama]

Also, Shohei Onishi, member of the Kyokai's anti-doping committee, has shot down my line of thinking from above, stating that the used test would only come back positive if the last drug usage was at most two or three days ago. FWIW...

Depending on the accuracy of this link, you may have been right the first time...

urine tests may detect marijuana 1-5 days after an occasional use, 1-3 weeks in regular users, and 4-6 weeks in multiple daily users

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4934

[Hashira]

well it's the lead on the 11 o'clock news on the TBS news, ahead of the next-day reaction to the surprise resignation of the Prime Minister....

interviewees calling for the resignation of Kitanoumi, which would seem to be a fairly foregone conclusion, I would think

honestly, if this happened after the Wakanoho incident, these guys are beyond stupid.

as per the discussion about if they might be okay if they are not charged/if there are no written Kyokai rules about it, they might have been let off with a suspension or warning if it were not so close to the Wakanoho incident. As it is so close, they are gone. hopefully they can leave the country without being charged

edit: so after the Fukuda news I changed the channel to PuSuma (or however it should be romanized), where former yokozuna Wakanohana is appearing alongside a "joint and beer" emblazoned t-shirt wearing Kusanagi.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Hashira

[Jonosuke]

The difference with Wakanoho is that neither Roho nor Hakurozan were arrested or charged. They went to the police on their own volition.

And the police cannot charge them if they only admitted the use. That is not a crime in Japan. Only if one is found to be in possession of and/or selling marijuana, one can be charged. If you just smoke it without them finding you with the possession, you cannot be charged.

Unless they agree to police search of their room and then the police find a trace of marijuana there, they cannot be arrested.

So in this case at the moment is not a police matter (though they are interested in finding out how they came to it) but it will become a Kyokai matter and how they intend to rule as there is no other precedent. Wakanohana was discharged because he was basically arrested by the police so the Kyokai needed to do something as he breached the law.

[Otokonoyama]

The difference with Wakanoho is that neither Roho nor Hakurozan were arrested or charged. They went to the police on their own volition.

And the police cannot charge them if they only admitted the use. That is not a crime in Japan. Only if one is found to be in possession of and/or selling marijuana, one can be charged. If you just smoke it without them finding you with the possession, you cannot be charged.

Unless they agree to police search of their room and then the police find a trace of marijuana there, they cannot be arrested.

So in this case at the moment is not a police matter (though they are interested in finding out how they came to it) but it will become a Kyokai matter and how they intend to rule as there is no other precedent. Wakanohana was discharged because he was basically arrested by the police so the Kyokai needed to do something as he breached the law.

The information on the US State Department website says one can be arrested for positive blood or urine tests. I know of one foreigner who had a bad trip, called an ambulance, and was arrested after the hospital did a drug test, and shared the results with the police. The brothers Kazmarov are in a very precarious situation.

[Asashosakari]

Also, Shohei Onishi, member of the Kyokai's anti-doping committee, has shot down my line of thinking from above, stating that the used test would only come back positive if the last drug usage was at most two or three days ago. FWIW...

Depending on the accuracy of this link, you may have been right the first time...

I'm guessing it also depends on the type of test used. Since they had the results almost immediately today and they're sending the stuff in for further testing now, it's possible that they used something less sensitive that would require more recent marijuana use to trigger.

Edit via Hochi update #3,762: Onishi also stated that they ran the tests on Roho's urine three times and Hakurozan's twice, and all came back positive, and (if I'm gathering it correctly) that more intensive analysis will be able to show whether it's due to their own using or from second-hand smoke. We'll see...

Edited September 2, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Otokonoyama]

No doubt they used the "one step marijuana test card" for the tests today. Samples will be sent away for gas chromatography to confirm the results.

[Mark Buckton]

purely medicinal - Roho was kyujo after all! (Holiday feeling...)

[Flohru]

The information on the US State Department website says one can be arrested for positive blood or urine tests. I know of one foreigner who had a bad trip, called an ambulance, and was arrested after the hospital did a drug test, and shared the results with the police. The brothers Kazmarov are in a very precarious situation.

I couldn't believe that so I looked it up and really the US State Department writes what you've said. The full text is:

"People can be convicted of drug use based on positive blood or urine tests alone, and multiple Americans are now serving time in Japanese prisons as the result of sting operations and the use of informants."

This is sick. Does that mean you can only visit Japan if you are not in danger of failing a drug test!? If I knew that before I would have become an informant of Japan's police by accusing Roho and some disliked western Rock/Pop bands performing in Japan for taking drugs just to get rid of them! That reminds me a little bit of the GDR... (Holiday feeling...)

Edited September 2, 2008 by Flohru

[Mark Buckton]

irrespective of how the drugs got into their system they should be removed from sumo.

rules in the Kyokai's handbook may not dictate such but these pair deserve to go. They have used drugs deemed illegal in Japan, the drugs behind the dismissal of another so recently - that is enough.

[hidenohana]

Now that Roho and Hakurozan were found positive for marijuana after the Kyokai did a surprise urine test, what will the Kyokai be doing?

So who were the individuals pushing for this "surprise urine test"? Is there any precedent for such a test or is this the first time?

[Otokonoyama]

Now that Roho and Hakurozan were found positive for marijuana after the Kyokai did a surprise urine test, what will the Kyokai be doing?

So who were the individuals pushing for this "surprise urine test"? Is there any precedent for such a test or is this the first time?

Up in post #5 Fay linked to a topic that may help with some of your questions...

[Mark Buckton]

guess, to paraphrase a friend I chatted to tonight after we heard this - this at least proves they weren't on (and draw isn't) a performance enhancer!! (Holiday feeling...)