Asashouryuu- A new turn of events..

[Kintamayama]

Asashouryuu arrived with the rest of team A at Narita airport yesterday. But instead of leaving the airport, he took the plane back to Mongolia after 45 minutes. He arrived with the others at 8 am, but instead of going through the regular passport control stuff, he suddenly turned to everyone and said "see you around", and disappeared back into the airport. His tsukebito were waiting at the arrival lobby, but he didn't show. He simply took the chartered plane back to Mongolia. "I knew nothing about it.. I can't figure out what goes on in his mind!", said a baffled Ooshima Oyakata. Asa had asked to stay for two more days but was refused permission. Then, before the flight to Japan, he asked again, but was refused again. He then asked Takasago if it was OK, and he got the green light. But as he was not allowed to go on his own by Ooshima, he flew all the way to Narita. Then, he apparently received some sort of permission from the Kyokai, so he flew back. Since the charter was a round-trip one payed by the sponsors of the Jungyo, Asa had no problems getting back, the lone passenger on the plane - a 214 seater Airbus 310-300... He is planning on returning on September 1st, but how will the Kyokai be treating this?

Edited August 30, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Hashira]

He had asked to stay for two more days but was refused permission. then, before the flight he asked again, but was refused again. He then asked Takasago if it was OK, and he got the green light. but as he was not allowed to go on his own, he flew all the way to Narita. Then, he apparently received some sort of permission from the Kyokai, so he flew back.

...how will the Kyokai be treating this?

How the kyokai will treat it depends on what sort of permission it was. It almost sounds like he just decided by himself to go, and the Kyokai "granted permission" after the fact to avoid losing face by showing that they have absolutely no control over him. But would they do that, instead of just giving him the boot?

maybe he left his wallet in Mongolia and had to go get it before it was turned in to the police?

edit: this article from Sports Nippon says that according to insiders, the process for application was filled out properly, so there's no problem there, but another insider says the fact that he filed the application before returning to japan is strange, and wonders why his oyakata llows such things. Apparently Ooshima is angry, as he was the one who originally denied his request to stay in Mongolia following the jungyo.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Hashira

[Kintamayama]

How the kyokai will treat it depends on what sort of permission it was. It almost sounds like he just decided by himself to go, and the Kyokai "granted permission" after the fact to avoid losing face by showing that they have absolutely no control over him. But would they do that, instead of just giving him the boot?

To me, it seems it was well-prepared. As Ooshima , who was the jungyo boss and was directly in charge of Asa in Mongolia, refused him permission, he obediently but reluctantly flew to Japan, where he probably called Takasago and asked his permission. Takasago then asked someone at the Kyokai (standard procedure in place after last year's scandal) who probably saw no reason to deny this wish, allowing it. The charter plane was conveniently waiting, so I personally think Asa is totally in the clear with the Kyokai

But the press will have a field day..

Asa-coming or going? Could this be the phone call to Takasago?:

Edited August 30, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Nanami]

He then asked Takasago if it was OK, and he got the green light. But as he was not allowed to go on his own, by Ooshima, he flew all the way to Narita. Then, he apparently received some sort of permission from the Kyokai, so he flew back. Since the charter was a round-trip one payed by the sponsors of the Jungyo, Asa had no problems getting back, the lone passenger on the plane - a 214 seater Airbus 310-300... He is planning on returning on September 1st, but how will the Kyokai be treating this?

;-) The timing of this is not the greatest... even if he gets a pass from the Kyokai.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Nanami

[kame]

unexpected turn of events indeed. so much is discussed about the circumstances in which he sneaks of to Mongolia each time, but so little about the real reasons. i've mostly heard the "to tend to his businesses there" excuse but i think it's usually something different.

i don't want to generalize but having spent time with 5 Mongolians studying in Japan i can say it affected most of them deeply. even after getting over the huge differences in eating habits (meat-seafood), they could never really overcome the crowded, asphyxiating side of urban Japan. some of them became overly extrovert/aggressive, others grew gloomy/slept all through the day. during a trip to Hokkaidou i saw a totally different side: absolutely dominating sports, cutting wood like it was cheesecake, smiling and helping everyone.

i know this stinks of determinism but it's what i saw over the course of two years. out of the 5 only one adapted, the rest barely survived, while students from other Asian countries had almost no problems and even disliked the idea of going back to their own countries. Asa must be truly choking in Japan, probably has been so since turning Yokozuna. more so than most other Mongolian rikishi since he leads such a public life.

anyway, without being pro or anti Asa myself, i think his accomplishments here are that much greater being so out of place in Japan. but also believe he's close to intai, he has to, before he explodes in a million pieces.

[Mark Buckton]

interesting post there kame, but the fact is - he has been here since a teen. I can't recall the exact age, but he has become an adult in Japan having attended school here. He is probably approaching half his life in Japan - and he could have left at any time.

Japan has offered him opportunities he might never have seen equalled in Mongolia.

Behind it all, he knows which side his bread is buttered

[Musashoryu]

Seems to be pointing more and more to intai, i hope not i think he will be missed.....

[Kintamayama]

So far, Nikkan and Mainichi seem to either not know about this, or are purposely not mentioning it (or maybe it's the weekend and everyone has gone home..). All they wrote was that team A arrived safely yesterday. Asa has one online paper on his case all the time, and that is Houchi Yomiuri, which regardless of what he does, shows him in an extremely negative light. Asahi has joined this tendency lately as well. Both have very long articles about this, suggesting openly that he be punished. The other "yellow pages" are having a field day of course.

I still think nothing will happen.

Asa on his way:

[aderechelsea]

I still think nothing will happen.

and nothing SHOULD happen ...

[Hashira]

I still think nothing will happen.

and nothing SHOULD happen ...

that's a pretty bold stance, considering we know next to nothing about the details of the story

[Kintamayama]

I still think nothing will happen.

and nothing SHOULD happen ...

that's a pretty bold stance, considering we know next to nothing about the details of the story

Only the bold go anywhere. We know everything. He has permission, end of story. It will, however , be brought up the next time he does something bad, as an example.

[Jonosuke]

I think he should not get in too much trouble as far as he can get back by the banzuke release.

While during the jungyo, all rikishi are under the control of Jungyo Director. Asashoryu followed the order of the director. No problem.

Once he was back in Japan, he was again back under the control of his shisho who gave him a proper permission. Again no problem.

He followed the protocols to the letter.

Unless we are not told all the story, there should not be any problem for anyone except all those who detest him being absent from other duties he may have in Japan both formal and informal.

To me, it's no big deal. He has been doing this type of things all the time and I guess most of use are now used to it. Only that he should not withdraw from Aki after doing so much for a mere jungyo which he used to view it as and then leave a good yokozuna like record at Aki.

[ilovesumo]

Once he was back in Japan, he was again back under the control of his shisho who gave him a proper permission. Again no problem.

He followed the protocols to the letter.

How... "pragmatic" ...

[Kintamayama]

"What did he have to go back for?? I cannot understand it. I'd like him to act like a Yokozuna!", said former YDC and current member Mr. Ishibashi. The explanation of the "authorized people" was that he "wished to personally thank all those involved in the jungyo who made it such a big success." From the Kyokai side, they received a "notification of overseas travel " from Takasago Oyakata, and several Oyakata said there is no problem with that. "Other than the fact that a notification of travel was presented to the Kyokai, I have nothing to add", said Ooshima Oyakata, head of the jungyo office. When asked about the Prevention Convention complaining about Asa's behavior during keiko at the Natsu jungyo, he said: "If his erratic behavior will continue, I'd like us to consider penalizing him. If we reach such a decision in the office, we will bring it up in the next rijikai". This will apply to any and all rikishi acting funny (but I don't know why) during a jungyo.

[Mark Buckton]

I still think nothing will happen.

and nothing SHOULD happen ...

When Taka retired it was huge. Akebono similarly so. Wakanohana - a big story, and Maru a bit less so in my own opinion.

I saw each of these retirements unfold in the press, on TV etc. Understand other retirements were a lot bigger back in the proverbial day, but I really do imagine that in the eyes of most, Asa is already a non-entity.

When he does call it a day, it will be a case of 'was he still here' / goodbye, don't close the door on the way out, we'll do it for you - etc etc.

ANY conversation with a regular bod perhaps not so interested in sumo only centres on his gaffes and lets be honest - there are plenty to choose from.

Nobody gives a toss of the EU / US / foreign concepts of these gaffes and belief that he shouldn't be chastised for whatever he did (this time) wasn't such a biggie. He just makes too many headlines - that in itself, for a yokozuna is a gaffe. When was the last time Hak was in a similar story relating to something that might be (maybe not - just might be) a problem?

You don't often hear Japanese caught doing something bad apologising for what they did. They are more often than not apologising for causing media trouble / a stir and the like as opposed to relating to specifics of their own gaffe.

[Fujisan]

I saw each of these retirements unfold in the press, on TV etc. Understand other retirements were a lot bigger back in the proverbial day, but I really do imagine that in the eyes of most, Asa is already a non-entity.

When he does call it a day, it will be a case of 'was he still here' / goodbye, don't close the door on the way out, we'll do it for you - etc etc.

ANY conversation with a regular bod perhaps not so interested in sumo only centres on his gaffes and lets be honest - there are plenty to choose from.

Who gives a damn what anyone not interested in Sumo thinks anyway?

If you dont like sumo its a sure sign you have no taste anyway.

They pick on Asashoryu because hes the most successful Gaijin ever and hes in danger of overshadowing all the great Japanese Yokozuna of the past.

I have read the same sh*t printed about other pioneering Gaijins like Konishiki how he wouldn't fit into the Sumo world like they wanted him too.

[Mark Buckton]

Who gives a damn what anyone not interested in Sumo thinks anyway?

If you dont like sumo its a sure sign you have no taste anyway.

just home from the pub Fuji?

You surely know how it is? Do you think the NSK cares more about the opinions of an almost miniscule number of dedicated sumo fans around the world - or their 127? million strong Japanese public? The former, as much as we love it, are less than a tenth of even the casual visitors to the Kokugikan any day of the tournament.

Those preaching knowledge, international equality and such, but contributing relatively little in terms of NSK income VS those with the cash and proximity to the Kokugikan to be worthy of listening to - even if not sumo fans anyway.

You read but didn't see.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Mark Buckton]

I saw each of these retirements unfold in the press, on TV etc. Understand other retirements were a lot bigger back in the proverbial day, but I really do imagine that in the eyes of most, Asa is already a non-entity.

When he does call it a day, it will be a case of 'was he still here' / goodbye, don't close the door on the way out, we'll do it for you - etc etc.

ANY conversation with a regular bod perhaps not so interested in sumo only centres on his gaffes and lets be honest - there are plenty to choose from.

They pick on Asashoryu because hes the most successful Gaijin ever and hes in danger of overshadowing all the great Japanese Yokozuna of the past.

Fuji - I am kind of in shock this haas come from you. OK, JAB ;-) or one of the 'sumo is ONLY Asa' fans - no worries, but not you.

I think Bananarama said it best - It ain't wnat you do, it's the way that you do it. and Asa does it badly.

(that was Bananarama wasn't it Nish? I was too busy at OT to listen to music)

[Fujisan]

Fuji - I am kind of in shock this haas come from you. OK, JAB ;-) or one of the 'sumo is ONLY Asa' fans - no worries, but not you.

If you think that probably the most opiniated person on this forum and self proclaimed No 1 Asashoryu fan wouldn't have something to say about the c**p your spouting Mark then you really dont know me at all.

No I'm not saying that sumo is ONLY Asashoryu but I am saying that any real Sumo fan is more concerned with his performance on the Dohyo than any of the Anti-Asa press thats going around.

And I personally dont give a damn what the non-sumo fans think,what do they know about sumo?

Edited August 31, 2008 by Fujisan

[Fujisan]

You surely know how it is? Do you think the NSK cares more about the opinions of an almost miniscule number of dedicated sumo fans around the world - or their 127? million strong Japanese public? The former, as much as we love it, are less than a tenth of even the casual visitors to the Kokugikan any day of the tournament.

No your probably right about the NSK's priorities and since they are so well supported by millions,they probably dont need your help to put nails into Asashoryus coffin.

[Mark Buckton]

If you think that probably the most opiniated person on this forum and self proclaimed No 1 Asashoryu fan wouldn't have something to say about the c**p your spouting Mark then you really dont know me at all.

And I personally dont give a damn what the non-sumo fans think,what do they know about sumo?[/quote]

perhaps as much as you regarding their culture - the culture that gave birth to sumo. The culture that still dictates how sumo is played out, what makes a rikishi great, how rikishi behave - everything that makes sumo what it is, and perhaps much of what drew us all in in the first place.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Mark Buckton]

imagine this Paul - for these claims DO exist. NB- this is very basic in form as the whole thing would be too long and probably boring.

Japan and the Japanese islands were created by water dripping from a sword. This (Japan) is the land of the gods - 8 million to be close to exact.

What do you make of that?

Literary garbage (featured as it is in very old Japanese literature) spouted today only by daft men / right wingers?

now, removing the Asa...Sakari factor of technicality and logic from the equation (and your nitpicking side-kick Maneki - not my name! - yours! just joking ladies)), how would you feel if a Japanese person made these claims in a (for example) lecture you attended?????.

You would likely snort and laugh - inwardly if not outwardly - for you KNOW that only GOD made the world, for that is written in ''you're'' Bible - the Christian set of books so much in Western Culture is based on. How stupid of these Japanese to be giving a lecture in the UK and making claims obviously 'out there' with the fairies. How wrong of them to apply their ideas and ideals (to their own islands? to their own sport?) to others.

How idiotic to claim that 'their' book written in the 7th? (I forget the exact Kojiki date now) century, outweighs the book of my religion written 5/6 centuries earlier? Everyone KNOWS the bible is the word of my GOD and is thus sacrosanct.

You have just as much, more I would venture intolerance to other cultures / beliefs than most Japanese - for few Japanese believe that dripping sword line anymore; reality and common sense having surpassed blind obedience.

Open your mind to others Paul.

mods - not a religious thread - an attempt (reply) to show the differing views of the people I live alongside - when it is deemed 'crap' to begin with.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Otokonoyama]

Moderator Notice

Let's carry on without any personal digs directed at each other. Thank you.

[Mark Buckton]

your right - will (not) do. B-) C'mon Paul - let's chill: :-P (Hugging...)

[Fujisan]

imagine this Paul - for these claims DO exist. NB- this is very basic in form as the whole thing would be too long and probably boring.

Japan and the Japanese islands were created by water dripping from a sword. This (Japan) is the land of the gods - 8 million to be close to exact.

What do you make of that?

Literary garbage (featured as it is in very old Japanese literature) spouted today only by daft men / right wingers?

now, removing the Asa...Sakari factor of technicality and logic from the equation (and your nitpicking side-kick Maneki - not my name! - yours! just joking ladies)), how would you feel if a Japanese person made these claims in a (for example) lecture you attended?????.

You would likely snort and laugh - inwardly if not outwardly - for you KNOW that only GOD made the world, for that is written in ''you're'' Bible - the Christian set of books so much in Western Culture is based on. How stupid of these Japanese to be giving a lecture in the UK and making claims obviously 'out there' with the fairies. How wrong of them to apply their ideas (to their own islands? to their own sport?)

How idiotic to claim that 'their' book written in the 7th? (I forget the exact Kojiki date now) century, outweighs the book of my religion written 5/6 centuries earlier? Everyone KNOWS the bible is the word of my GOD and is thus sacrosanct.

You have just as much, more I would venture intolerance to other cultures / beliefs than most Japanese - for few Japanese believe that dripping sword line anymore; reality and common sense having surpassed blind obedience.

Open your mind to others Paul.

This is way too close to a religious discussion for me.

I will only say this---

When a mathematician finds the answer to an equation,he doesn't go looking for another answer.

I've found the answer to lifes equation I dont need to open my mind to another answer....

The truth,is the truth and it knows no national boundaries Mark.

Now what that has to do with the bad mouthing of Asashoryu I dont know.