Gay mayor of Berlin

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

his husband

Oh, it's not a typo. (I am not worthy...)

[ilovesumo]

his husband

Oh, it's not a typo. (I am not worthy...)

No. His outing was on the day he became mayor.

"I am gay, and that is good" He is the famous gay politician and is doing a lot for the city and the

image of gay people, some dickheads still seem to have problems with. I like him. (Bow...)

The other "he must be gay" politician never had an outing like that. But it's his politics I do not like... (In jonokuchi...)

[Jakusotsu]

Wow! Has a discussion about sumo ever drifted into sexuality and politics in one single turn before? (I am not worthy...)

Not complaining, just curious...

[Asashosakari]

Wow! Has a discussion about sumo ever drifted into sexuality and politics in one single turn before? (I am not worthy...)

Not complaining, just curious...

One of the umpteen "Should women be allowed to step on the dohyo?" threads, perhaps?

[Jakusotsu]

One of the umpteen "Should women be allowed to step on the dohyo?" threads, perhaps?

What have women to do with sexuality? (I am not worthy...)

[Mark Buckton]

Great many thanks, Fay. What the hell is he doing in Berlin? Please, ask him that.

Nothing wrong with living in Berlin. It's a nice city I have heard...

even in the basements? (Shaking head...)

If the mayor is gay that is his business, but it sounds like he is using it to his own political gain given timing and the attitudes towards homosexuality nowadays.

[Fay]

Aaaaa Mr. Blair/Buckton also has a deep knowledge of german provincial politics (Shaking head...)

[ilovesumo]

even in the basements? (Shaking head...)

If the mayor is gay that is his business, but it sounds like he is using it to his own political gain given timing and the attitudes towards homosexuality nowadays.

What?

.... :-S

[kaiguma]

No. His outing was on the day he became mayor.

[Note: not during campaiging]

If the mayor is gay that is his business, but it sounds like he is using it to his own political gain given timing and the attitudes towards homosexuality nowadays.

...some dickheads still seem to have problems with...

[Mark Buckton]

I think it is sometimes hard to talk about homosexuality and politics in the same sentence(s) because anything that might come across as critical is (over) simply seen as homophobic etc.

In my comment I mentioned 'is' using it (his homosexuality) ...... as opposed to 'was' using it (his homosexuality)

My using 'is' was in reference to

is doing a lot for the city and the image of gay people,

and his post election efforts.

The depth of his actions on behalf of one portion of the community - is something I don't fully know about though ZDF news is on Japanese TV each day.

That said, it (his work on behalf of the image of homosexuals) was / is important enough for ilovesumo to specifically point out so is seems(ed) that he IS using his sexuality to help others who opt for the same lifestyle - and thereby long term perhaps building himself a support base using his position.

This probably won't harm him when another election comes up. (be quiet Moti!) and could be called 'special interests' were Germany to have the equivalent of America's Rush Limbaugh / Ed Shultz.

I believe, perhaps idealistically, that an elected political figure is there to help every member of a community - especially a leader such as a mayor / governor etc.

ilovesumo did mention this when saying he is doing a lot for the city but also saw fit to mention the specific mention of image assistance to once slice of that community.

This would indicate a certain leaning (no pun intended) and as I mentioned, all too often today, any criticism of a person (the mayor) who happens to be homosexual is today met by the "so, you are anti-gay?" crowd.

On the political stage - all are expected to be equal - as naive as that may be.

(sorry Mods - perhaps a split here given how far off topic we are?)

[Kintamayama]

This probably won't harm him when another election comes up. (be quiet Moti!)

Naah, not worth the bother.

Now this, OTOH..

building himself a support base using his position.

[Manekineko]

Out of pure curiosity: husband - does this mean that gay marriage is legal in Germany?

[Asashosakari]

Out of pure curiosity: husband - does this mean that gay marriage is legal in Germany?

No, but civil unions are.

[ilovesumo]

this "using" is what I don't get. Nobody can use that fact. It is a hindrance cause there are more homophobic people who vote then gay people. That's why he had his outing after the elections.

Edited July 18, 2008 by ilovesumo

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

I happened to mention the detail simply out of frustration that, once again, I wasn't able to catch Doitsuyama for making a mistake. (Shaking head...)

[Mark Buckton]

this "using" is what I don't get. Nobody can use that fact. It is a hindrance cause there are more homophobic people who vote then gay people. That's why he had his outing after the elections.

(Shaking head...)

The part underlined I get - the other parts were a bit confusing. How do you know there are more homophobic people in Germany who can vote (than gay people)?

Homophobia is an extreme. I am pretty sure some Germans (some Japanese, some British - some everybody) are homophobic but I am sure there are far far more people who really don't care and see the man for the man, the woman for the woman etc.

I'd be interested to see what you base that claim on? (In a state of confusion...)

Edited July 18, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[hoshi]

Come on mark, stop picking on ilovesumo.

If you are taking for yourself of beeing very exact and precise in your profession as a journalist you shouldn't have named the rumors from yesterday about the Mongolian jungyo as "canceled".

But back to the topic mayor of Berlin- he seems to have a favour for sumo because Shu told me once he was invited by him to visit Berlin.

[tomayama]

No. His outing was on the day he became mayor.

[Note: not during campaiging]

That's a misinformation. His outing was on the day he was nominated by his party. He commented on his homosexuality with the now famous phrase: "Und das ist auch gut so".

[tomayama]

this "using" is what I don't get. Nobody can use that fact. It is a hindrance cause there are more homophobic people who vote then gay people. That's why he had his outing after the elections.

That's blatantly false. He had his outing during the nomination.

[ilovesumo]

No. His outing was on the day he became mayor.

[Note: not during campaiging]

That's a misinformation. His outing was on the day he was nominated by his party. He commented on his homosexuality with the now famous phrase: "Und das ist auch gut so".

Woops. Thanks for correcting.

Too long ago... :-D

The outing was during the speech after the nomination by the party.

But it was no campaign for gay rights. I asked the gay paper "queer".

Statement was: "Wowereit never did any gay politics before his outing. Family and friends knew about it,

the bublic did not. The outing was somehow forced because the press wrote down rumours.

He was elected because he was the most capable member of the party.

Gay people have to work harder than others if they want to reach something."

Homophobia includes any aversion. Aversion is not extreme. Read the definition.

So much for that. If gay politicians have any benefit- why aren't there more of them?

I won't come up with stats here. The whole discussion is already rediculous enough.

I am off this.

Edited July 18, 2008 by ilovesumo

[kaiguma]

This probably won't harm him when another election comes up. (be quiet Moti!)

Shame on you mark. Suplise elections are no raffing matter. Moti showed extreme endurance in resisting the temptation to poke at your juicy innuendo.

I hope you realized I was just ribbing your comment, in jest. Your points are all well and good now that you explained in detail. However, from an American perspective on politics, a freshly elected member of a formerly unrepresented minority perhaps does have a certain responsibility for their community. Assuming of course that there are often outdated laws, and reverse momentum to overcome, such a representative may serve such a duty without calling into question their own conflict of interest. The danger, as you point out, is in abusing one's position, sideways activities (NPI) that on one hand look like advocacy but from another angle may infact be for personal political gain, overcompensating for unfairness in the current political environment, reverse discrimination, etc.

Unfortunately all of these things are commonly practiced by straight white guys in politics all over the world as well, so what's the difference? ;-)

Edited July 18, 2008 by kaiguma

[Mark Buckton]

The confident claim

No. His outing was on the day he became mayor.

which is / was

That's blatantly false. He had his outing during the nomination

and then another claim

there are more homophobic people who vote then gay people.

but when asked to show if this is indeed true

I won't come up with stats here

ending with

I am off this.

for the best Verena, neh?

means you don't have to answer for this rediculous one:

Gay people have to work harder than others if they want to reach something."

[HenryK]

I remember this well, Wowereit came out of the closet as a pre-emptive move to prevent that some journalist or professinal mudslinger would make his homosexuality public, thus putting Wowereit on the defensive. Much like Michael Portillo came out before running for the Tory party leadership in the UK.

I don't think it helped or hurt Wowereit during the campaign, but he played the issue cleverly, making sure that his sexuality would be debated only at this own terms -- which meant pretty much that it wasn't debated at all. Btw, this was at a time when several German politicians came out and disclosed their homosexuality, among them Ole von Beust, the conservative mayor of Hamburg, and Guido Westerwelle, the leader of the liberal party.