Asashouryuu preparations Nagoya 2008

[Kintamayama]

Asashouryuu will not be returning to Japan with the rest of the contingent. He's off to Las Vegas to a friend's wedding. then, he will be flying to Mongolia for treatment and training, and will return to Japan around Banzuke announcement day, the 30th of June, which means he will not be in Japan for the most of June. "No problem with that. He has asked through the proper channels , and probably received permission from the Jungyo head as well,", said Kitanoumi rijicho.

[JAB]

So do Sumo need to stay in Japan all the time?

Thanks,

Jake (I am not worthy...)

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

So do Sumo need to stay in Japan all the time?

Thanks,

Jake (I am not worthy...)

Mr Sumos can go to Sweden for example when they have vacation. Kyokai is employer and can say "hai". Can Mr JAB go to Thailand for 1 week during working week? Mr Sumo X wouldn't probably go to Sweden for vacation though. Stockholm is not number one target for Mr Sumo X.

Jake-sama, do you aspire to become a strong sumo wrestler in the future? Will you become a Sumo?

Edited June 9, 2008 by Kaikitsune Makoto

[Jonosuke]

As a legions of newlyweds know Vegas is a great place to get married, quickie or otherwise. Wasn't he reported to be in nudge nudge wink wink with a Mongolian showgirl living in Vegas, apparently last seen in his condo when he was on enforced house arrest?

Anyway does anyone on this Forum know who this *friend* might be?

Edited June 9, 2008 by Jonosuke

[JAB]

Kaikit...

Not sure how to read your post bro (Eh?)

What I mean is, do they have to stay in Japan at their stable? Do all pro Sumo have to be centered in Japan? For instance does Asashouryu have to stay in Japan, or could he train in Mongolia if there was a suitable stable to train at? Follow up question for this is; What constitutes a professional stable?

I have no intention to go pro, but I have become increasingly interested in amatuer Sumo. I have done martial arts for over 17 years, and though I have seen Sumo before, it is only recently I have become infatuated with it. I am actually thinking about hosting some cats from Cali up here (Seattle) for a seminar if we can work it all out in the near future. Stay tuned, as I will post here if such an event takes place!

Sorry if my questions are basic, but so is my understanding (Sign of approval...)

Cheers

Jake (Smoking pipe...)

[kaiguma]

Kaikit...

Not sure how to read your post bro (Eh?)

What I mean is, do they have to stay in Japan at their stable? Do all pro Sumo have to be centered in Japan? For instance does Asashouryu have to stay in Japan, or could he train in Mongolia if there was a suitable stable to train at? Follow up question for this is; What constitutes a professional stable?

I have no intention to go pro, but I have become increasingly interested in amatuer Sumo. I have done martial arts for over 17 years, and though I have seen Sumo before, it is only recently I have become infatuated with it. I am actually thinking about hosting some cats from Cali up here (Seattle) for a seminar if we can work it all out in the near future. Stay tuned, as I will post here if such an event takes place!

Sorry if my questions are basic, but so is my understanding (Sign of approval...)

Cheers

Jake (Smoking pipe...)

I'll give this a go, to get to the core of what you are asking...

Ozumo (pro sumo) is more than a sport and serves much more than an entertainment role as sports do in most societies. While all sports are de facto part of a local or international culture, the major ones generally exist legally as part of an entertainment industry structure, with privately owned clubs and self-governing central administrations. Ozumo is actually structured under a "Ministry of Education" of sorts, so it is officially beholden to the Japanese Governent. Besides all of the technical aspects of the legal structure, such as tax exemption for the NSK, there are a lot of more meaningful responsibilities associated with this arrangement. Ozumo is expected to exemplify Japanese cultural heritage and tradition, and to do everything within its power to continue to deliver a living body of history to the Japanese people (and to people abroad as an educational window int Japanese culture).

For these reasons and many others, Professional Sumo as a bBody is singularly Japanese. Without radical change to the legal existence of Ozumo, stables will never be allowed to open and operate on foreign soil.

Logistics tie into the answer as well, although even the logistics will always return to the cultural meaning of Ozumo. For example, stables are expected to take part in group activities both inside and outside of Honbasho, bimonthly tournaments. These include the jungyo (local and foreign tours), en masse training sessions, and the general "degeiko" or interstable training. These are traditional and/or part of "The Mission" so they will never disappear. Could a foreign stable fly its rikishi to Tokyo for every Soken (all-stable session) or 1-day tournament? Or for every time Asashoryu wants to train with Takamisakari? Could such a stable afford to rent temporary lodgings for training and required facilities during all 6 honbasho, even the ones in Tokyo, rather than the 3 outside basho when this is required of Tokyo stables? Cross-training with different stables together is not just a logistic issue, but highlights the Japanese ideals of communal society. At Soken, Kotooshu and Asashoryu get up on the dohyo to train together even though they are from different stables and there is none of the same competitiveness you witness in honbasho. They are there for the common good of all rikishi, and whichever spectators may be in attendance.

While sekitori are pretty free to travel outside of their required engagements, they are required to live in Japan, in Tokyo, and near enough to their stables that they may train effectively and pass along their knowledge to the lower-rankers on a daily basis during heavy training rotations. And as recent scandals or hubbubs have evidenced, when they engage in extra-curricular travel or leisure, they had better not take the required engagements lightly.

Your last question on "what constitutes a professional stable?" is probably best answered by Jonosuke.

Edited June 10, 2008 by kaiguma

[Asashosakari]

For instance does Asashouryu have to stay in Japan, or could he train in Mongolia if there was a suitable stable to train at? Follow up question for this is; What constitutes a professional stable?

The more important question is: What constitutes a stablemaster? In short, you cannot run a recognized stable without being a member of the NSK, and that means being an oyakata and owning one of the 105 shares in the organization, which in turns requires you to hold Japanese citizenship. So, from the administrative point of view a "suitable" stable isn't just a place that can provide a dohyo and equipment. And as kaiguma mentioned, even in Japan you can't just open a stable anywhere you want; for logistical reasons you're pretty much restricted to Tokyo and the neighbouring prefectures as an oyakata.

[paolo]

Asashouryuu will not be returning to Japan with the rest of the contingent. He's off to Las Vegas to a friend's wedding. then, he will be flying to Mongolia for treatment and training, and will return to Japan around Banzuke announcement day, the 30th of June, which means he will not be in Japan for the most of June. "No problem with that. He has asked through the proper channels , and probably received permission from the Jungyo head as well,", said Kitanoumi rijicho.

Good to see that there are no problems with Kitanoumi and the Kyokai, but what kind of training is Asashoryu going to perform in Mongolia for twenty days ? I can imagine weight lifting, gym practice and so on, but what about keiko ? And will ten days in Japan before next basho be enough to put him in good shape ? After all he had an unsatisfactory 11-4 last basho, and his tachiai was weak... I do not think that the other rikishi practice the same way as Asashoryu. Or am I wrong ?

[paolo]

As a legions of newlyweds know Vegas is a great place to get married, quickie or otherwise. Wasn't he reported to be in nudge nudge wink wink with a Mongolian showgirl living in Vegas, apparently last seen in his condo when he was on enforced house arrest?

Anyway does anyone on this Forum know who this *friend* might be?

Gossip ot truth ? Is Asashoryu still married ? His parents, his brothers and his children are mentioned sometimes , but his wife is not since a long time...

[Fukurou]

Gossip ot truth ? Is Asashoryu still married ? His parents, his brothers and his children are mentioned sometimes , but his wife is not since a long time...

IIRC, his wife was mentioned just last basho. If Asa is the rikishi I'm remembering, he arrived from Mongolia with one of the kids, and she arrived days later with another kid, who had been sick.

[JAB]

Kaiguma,

Thank you for the great explanation!

First question; what is the NSK?

So in Soken do all Rikishi (I think that means wrestlers right?) participate? Do all the stables come to one big stable and just train? What is the purpose of this? To share knowledge? There is a term I know from the martial traditions of Japan; Juku. As I understand it, basically it means a gathering place for the express purpose of sharing knowledge. Is this similar? You mention a communal society, so in this regard do all stables support the next? Knowing what little I do of the Japanese culture I find it hard to believe their is no competition involved (In a state of confusion...)

Thanks guys,

Jake (In a state of confusion...)

[Jonosuke]

IIRC, his wife was mentioned just last basho. If Asa is the rikishi I'm remembering, he arrived from Mongolia with one of the kids, and she arrived days later with another kid, who had been sick.

Asashoryu went back to Mongolia days after the basho for a few days before the one day tournament. So if your recollection is correct then his wife and kids were in Japan and there was no need to go back to Mongolia to see his family. He did go back to Mongolia alone even though I believe his mother and one of his kids was definitely in Japan. The assumption at the time was that he was going back to see his family.

[Nanami]

Asashoryu went back to Mongolia days after the basho for a few days before the one day tournament. So if your recollection is correct then his wife and kids were in Japan and there was no need to go back to Mongolia to see his family. He did go back to Mongolia alone even though I believe his mother and one of his kids was definitely in Japan. The assumption at the time was that he was going back to see his family.

Isn't there a Mongolian jungyo coming up soon? If so, perhaps he is assisting with that endeavor.

[Jonosuke]

Isn't there a Mongolian jungyo coming up soon? If so, perhaps he is assisting with that endeavor.

Possibly but if so that will be a Kyokai official business and he will be not going there alone privately.

[Sasanishiki]

First question; what is the NSK?

The Nihon Sumo Kyokai or the Japan Sumo Association that runs professional sumo. You will hear people on this forum usually call it teh kyokai or teh NSK for short.

So in Soken do all Rikishi (I think that means wrestlers right?) participate? Do all the stables come to one big stable and just train? What is the purpose of this? To share knowledge?

Not having been to one, I stand to be corrected: The sekitori (top two professional divisions - juryo and makunouchi) train together at the soken in their divisions. there are also invited top makushita (the thrid divsion) rikishi as well. They meet at the torunament venue rather than at one of the stables because of the size of venue needed to have such a large practice. The purpose is to practice against others, and also to show the public and the sumo elders their form and that they are playing their part (of actually training and improving). I'm not sure about juku in other martial arts so I can't comment on that aspect.

You mention a communal society, so in this regard do all stables support the next? Knowing what little I do of the Japanese culture I find it hard to believe their is no competition involved

)

Effectively each stable is in competition with each other for new recruits and for having its rikishi get to the top and win. The monetary payment to the rikishi and the stables comes from each rikishi's placement on teh banzuke (ranking sheet) , which is a refelction of their tournament results. However, the stables are in groupings (ichimon) of cooperation. This comes about because a stable is run by a master (oyakata) and that master has either inherited a previous stable or started his own. If he starts his own then he has a connection to his previous stable, the one where he was an athlete. thus, the various stables have traditional interlocking relationships within their ichimon. The different ichimon also sometimes have group practices together to foster knowledge within their grouping.

[JAB]

Thanks bro!

Jake (Sign of approval...)

[paolo]

Trying to go back to the topic's title: I read that Hakuho was starting keiko just after LA jungyo. Are any news coming from Mongolia about what Asashoryu is doing there (is he training or what else ?). I understand that he is there with a permission by the Kyokai, but anyway 20 days without training seem too long a period of time for a rikishi. And it seems impossible that he can enter an acceptable form within the fifteen days before July basho. Is something else going on ?

[Kotoviki]

I also find it odd that he would be going so long without Keiko. Especially given his record at the last basho!

Of the friends I have they are never given so much time off between tournaments. The standard is one week off after a basho and then back to serious keiko. Though life as a Yokozuna may be different... but when Yokozuna Akebono was active he wasn't given extra time off to travel to Hawaii outside the normal holiday time for Rikishi except under special circumstances.

For the record Tochinoshin is traveling to Georgia to see his family for the first time since he came to Japan, his reward for his makuuchi debut....

Aran is also in Russia visiting his family, but I also thought I understood this is his first time back as well. In his case that is not 100%. But neither of them plan to be gone until the banzuke is announced!

I guess Asa misses his family but work is work. Even if I had the kind of money he has I doubt I would have gone back to the US more than the 4 times in 20 years that I've been. I could be wrong, first class maybe I'd go more often! :-(

As someone said, maybe Asa is also doing some work for the upcoming Mongolian Jungyo Tour?!

[Mark Buckton]

The standard is one week off after a basho and then back to serious keiko.

everything depends on the individual rikishi but I have very strong doubts that anyone is bank in 'serious keiko' so soon after a basho. The week off is often 2 weeks, they have heya admin to sort, and I would say that depending on where the next basho is - the real keiko doesn't get going until 3 / may be 4 weeks prior to the tournament - roughly 3(ish) weeks or more? after the previous basho ended.

For the record Tochinoshin is traveling ............Aran is also in Russia visiting his family, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,But neither of them plan to be gone until the banzuke is announced!

they'd better not be gone when the banzuke is announced - a pretty big no-no there.

Also, from having spoken to Tochinoshin several times this year, interviewing once and privately, I know he values his privacy on family and friends comings and goings. (Annoyed...)

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Kotoviki]

Actually I seem to think there is already some serious keiko going on.... I went to Keiko already the Monday after the last basho ended! They were doing serious keiko to me and it was a long session as well. Longer than I had seen the time before. Some of the heya where my friends are were only doing a short training session on that Monday with stretching and such but said that Tuesday they would be in full swing.

Tomorrow we are going and they've warned us in advance that they are planning a longer than usual keiko session and told us we could arrive later if we didn't want to sit through so much! (they have no idea how enthusiastic we are!!)

So it sure seems like many are into serious keiko right now ahead of the Nagoya departure!

Anyway about Tochinoshin, his trip to Georgia has been in the news already so it wasn't a big secret! It was also mentioned it was his first time home & the first time to see his family since coming to Japan.

And Mark, you must have read what I wrote differently than what I meant..

I wrote than neither of them plan to be gone until the banzuke announcement (as Asashoryu is). They will both be back before leaving for Nagoya which is next weekend!!! Someone mentioned Asa would be back just before the banzuke announcement but they will be back to go to Nagoya and start training long before that!

PS as for the week off after each basho I can only speak for Kasugano in this case but Oyakata is serious there, a week is a week, not two and only in special circumstances can those boys not start training after their one week off. That comes from Oyakata himself as well as some of the boys there who say he is very serious! Last year after Fukuoka many of them didn't get back to Tokyo until Sunday at 2030 or so. I mean at the end of their week off. But they had to start practice Monday morning anyway! In my opinion that is the way the heya should be run!

[Kintamayama]

Asashouryuu is back in Japan. He was out of Japan for 24 days-starting with the LA jungyo, then went to a friend's wedding in Las Vegas, and on the 14th-to Mongolia. "It's really humid..", he said upon arrival. He plans to arrive in Nagoya by the 30th and will have about two weeks to train for Nagoya.

[Mark Buckton]

he's leaving it later and later these days. Hope he starts to put on the poundage in the next year or so.

[Jonosuke]

Asashoryu had no troubles against his heya's Asasekiryu and Sandame rikishi winning all of 11 training sessions he did today. He says he has done a lot of higher altitude training with Mongolian sumo rikishi during his stay in Mongolia as he maintained normal breathing throughout his sessions.

At the meeting of Rikishi-kai (association of all Juryo and Makuuchi rikishi) which he chairs, he proposed to send in a request to the Kyokai for a pay hike for all rikishi as the gas price in Japan went up to over 180 yen per litre at service stations in Japan today.

For someone who owns a Hummer and drives to hon-basho venue chauffered in a Rolls Ryoce owned by his big supporter astrologer Kazuko Hosoki, it is getting to be pretty expensive for Asashoryu. He also flies back and forth between Mongolia and Japan often and fuel surcharges are starting to eat up his reserves as well.

However all sekitori travels by large cars regularly and their meal costs have risen significantly so his idea was voted in wholeheartedly by all sekitori present.

Along with all other rikishi, yokozuna's salary has been frozen at 2,740,000 to 2,800,000 Yen since January 2001.

Incidentally the venue for Mongolian Jungyo has been announced as the National Circus Arena in Ulaanbaatar.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Jonosuke

[Kintamayama]

Asashouryuu went for degeiko at Kasugano today, facing the likes of Tochinonada, Tochiouzan and Kimurayama for 20 training bouts, winning 18 of them. Yesterday he did no keiko, but today he was earnestly training working up a sweat. "I'm in so-so shape.. There are a lot of good rikishi here so I intend to visit again", he said. Juryo Kasuganishiki who was there said "I heard he was away in Mongolia for a long time, but the Yokozuna's body is tight and he is moving well. It seems to me he's been secretly training.."

Edited July 3, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

Picture from today's keiko: