How good is the foreign rikishis' Japanese?

[HenryK]

Say on a scale from 1-6, where ...

1 is quasi-native,

2 very fluent but with accent and occasional minor mistakes (say, could fully participate in a talk show),

3 fluent but with more frequent mistakes and restricted grammar (could give complete interviews),

4 can make himself understood OK but with frequent mistakes, narrow vocabulary and incomplete grammar (could explain how to get from A to B)

5 basic knowledge of some vocabluary and grammar, but with severe limitations to participate in conversations (could go shopping)

6 near non-existent, speaking limited to a few standard phrases and without the ability to comprehend much (conversation stops after "hello how are you") ....

.. how would you rate Asashoryu, Hakuho, Kotooshu, Ama, Asasekiryu, Kokkai, Baruto, Wakanoho, Kyokotenho, Kakuryu, Tokitenku, Kasugao, Roho, Tochinoshin? What about Akebono and Musashimaru?

Thanks in advance for any attempt

Henry

Edited May 22, 2008 by HenryK

[ilovesumo]

The way they talk in interviews is very different from how they speak in private moments...

[Sasanishiki]

Say on a scale from 1-6, where ...

1 is quasi-native,

2 very fluent but with accent and occasional minor mistakes (say, could fully participate in a talk show),

3 fluent but with more frequent mistakes and restricted grammar (could give complete interviews),

4 can make himself understood OK but with frequent mistakes, narrow vocabulary and incomplete grammar (could explain how to get from A to B)

5 basic knowledge of some vocabluary and grammar, but with severe limitations to participate in conversations (could go shopping)

6 near non-existent, speaking limited to a few standard phrases and without the ability to comprehend much (conversation stops after "hello how are you") ....

.. how would you rate Asashoryu, Hakuho, Kotooshu, Ama, Asasekiryu, Kokkai, Baruto, Wakanoho, Kyokotenho, Kakuryu, Tokitenku, Kasugao, Roho, Tochinoshin? What about Akebono and Musashimaru?

Thanks in advance for any attempt

Henry

Unfortunately I have not been in Japan a lot in the last eight years and I have not caught a lot of them speaking on TV (not just in interviews). However, I would presume thta Tokitenku's Japanese would be reasonably good as he graduated from a Japanese university. Likewise, I'm sure Asashoryu's is really good as he has been in Japan since high school. It is hard to judge for Musashimaru because I never heard him speak much, even when I was in japan. I do remember an NHK announcer lightly admonishing him after the national anthem was played (and he had won the yusho if I recall) because he didn't know the words. I also remember asking this type of question when I was in Japan in 1993 and an old lady telling me that Akebono's Japanese was really good - I was too inexperienced then to be able to judge for myself.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Kyokotenho is total Nihonjin in every way

Edited May 22, 2008 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[madorosumaru]

This subject is addressed from time to time in the Japanese media. The general belief is that Kyokutenho speaks the best Japanese among the foreign rikishi. His pronunciation is not perfect but he has a good command of the language with proper diction and a decent vocabulary. His Japanese is good enough that he has been asked not just to appear on TV but to host a program.

The one with the best pronunciation is Kakuryu, by far. Apparently, he is so well-spoken that his speech is pleasing even to the Japanese ear.

Asashoryu and Hakuho, being yokozuna, have many occasions to speak in Japanese and both have worked hard to improve their ability. Ryu, especially, has a knack of picking up local phrases and is an interesting person to listen to. However, as one can tell from his rather gruff demeanor, his speech is not the most refined. He can communicate well enough, but shall we say, he will not be a prime candidate for the foreign ministry.

Ama's Japanese is improving mostly because there is plenty of room to improve. The standing joke is that even when he speaks in Japanese, there is the need to have subtitles in that language. He is also known to repeat the same two or three phrases regardless of the question asked. "I will endeavor to do the kind of sumo that the fans will enjoy." "I will gambarize with all I have. "I will do my own sumo one bout at a time." You get the drift.

Among the Europeans, the consensus is that Hakurozan has the best command of the language. He caught on quickly and has tutored some of the others that have followed.

Among the non-sekitori, sandanme Torugawa is the most interesting. Having been an exchange student in Aomori, he speaks fluent Tohoku dialect--Tsugaru-ben to be exact.

As Sasanishiki mentioned, Akebono's Japanese was okay--much better than Musashimaru. For that matter, Maru's English is not that great either.

[ilovesumo]

This subject is addressed from time to time in the Japanese media. The general belief is that Kyokutenho speaks the best Japanese among the foreign rikishi. His pronunciation is not perfect but he has a good command of the language with proper diction and a decent vocabulary. His Japanese is good enough that he has been asked not just to appear on TV but to host a program.

Ama's Japanese is improving mostly because there is plenty of room to improve. The standing joke is that even when he speaks in Japanese, there is the need to have subtitles in that language. He is also known to repeat the same two or three phrases regardless of the question asked. "I will endeavor to do the kind of sumo that the fans will enjoy." "I will gambarize with all I have. "I will do my own sumo one bout at a time." You get the drift.

Tenho is great in anything. (Sign of approval...) You know what he did? He spoke extra slowly to me... (Sign of approval...)

The little rolling R is nice (Clapping wildly...)

Ama repeat's the same phrases? Don't they all do that?

Btw. Hoshikaze's English impressed me (Jumping in ecstasy...)

Edited May 22, 2008 by ilovesumo

[Harry]

Heck, hockey players all use set PR phrases here. "We played hard, the team played hard, we listened to the coach, the guys are great, the other guys played hard, we got the bounces tonight, they could win tomorrow so we have to play hard, listen to the coach..." Blah, blah, blah, barf, gag... I'd like to hear real responses but they aren't allowed to give them.

[Kintamayama]

The only way to answer these questions is to actually speak to the rikishi face to face. You can't discern anything from a short interview on TV riddled with cliches, cliches used for years by the Japanese rikishi, BTW.. I know quite a few people who can say a few sentences in very good Spanish, but only those few. From the rikishi I've spoken with, Asashouryuu's is of course very good, Kotooushuu has a heavy accent and is hard to understand and Hoshitango spoke perfect Japanese. Generally (gross generalization..), it seems the Mongolians are better speakers than their European counterparts. I always wondered about the Chinese and Korean rikishi. Has anyone spoken to any of them?

Edited May 22, 2008 by Kintamayama

[hidenohana]

Ama's Japanese is improving mostly because there is plenty of room to improve. The standing joke is that even when he speaks in Japanese, there is the need to have subtitles in that language. He is also known to repeat the same two or three phrases regardless of the question asked. "I will endeavor to do the kind of sumo that the fans will enjoy." "I will gambarize with all I have. "I will do my own sumo one bout at a time." You get the drift. .

Sounds familiar! :-)

Garth Crooks: So Alan... ... what ... ... do you think ... ...(groans) ... ... of the team's performance ... ... today?

Manager: I think the lads done brilliantly. Everyone gave one hundred and ten percent, you know, and the lads showed great spirit. It wasn't the prettiest of football at times, you know, but a win's a win, and at the end of the day, it's all about the 3 points. In football, you live and die by results. At times we rode our luck, but we managed to come out on top in the end. That's the sign of a great team, winning when you don't play so well. In the first half we had our backs to the wall, you know, but credit to the lads, they stuck to the task and weren't afraid to dig in when they needed to.

Garth: So ... ... what do you think ... ... (grimaces) ... ... of your chances ... ... for the title ... ... this year?

Manager: Well we've got to take it one game at a time. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We've got to regroup, you know (ruffles his hair), and then focus on the next game. We can't afford to take our eye off the ball.

Garth: And what do you ... ... think of ... ... your captain's ... ... performance ... ... today?

Manager: Absolutely sensational. He was all over the opposition, in their faces, you know, making life difficult for them. Today was a real test for him, but he was there when we needed him and popped up with an important goal at the end. This time last year thing weren't going so well for him, you know, but credit to the lad, you can't fault his commitment, he never gave up, and look where he's got to now.

Garth: What did ... ... you make of ... ... the penalty claim ... ... for the opposition?

Manager: From where I was sitting I couldn't see it, to be honest (scratches his temple), but I've spoken to the lad and he tells me it was never a penalty in a million years.

Garth: And what about ... ... these allegatons ... ... that you verbally abused ... ... one of ... the officials?

Manager: No comment

[sekihiryu]

Maru's English is not that great either.

you only have to listen to the English commentary when he's on to agree on that, which brings me to the question - what is his native language? its not English per se, not Japanese - is it Samoan? or Hawaiʻi Creole English (HCE)? my guess is that its the latter.

Baruto's Japanese is still very rudimentary based on his interviews.

Watch a Japanese game show when Takamisakari is on to see that he himself has a less that stellar grip on his own language.

[HenryK]

Thanks for the responses. Very interesting.

[Kotoviki]

In regards to Kasugao his Japanese was quite good in my opinion. Of course since I'm not Japanese... but my Japanese friend talked to him, felt his Japanese was good and very polite.

He also tried to use English with me which impressed me. He didn't know much but showed a lot of intention to learn.

[Mark Buckton]

Several Japanese I m close to have seen Asashoryu on TV, and listened to him in person and have come up with thesame conclusion in my presence - he is native - same as any Japanese. Were he not in their sight, they wouldn't know if they were listening to a Japanese or a non-Japanese.

I have spoken to Maru and listened to him speaking English multiple times - as native as you or I!

[Mark Buckton]

Tenko is great in anything. :-) You know what he did? He spoke extra slowly to me... (Blushing...)

The little rolling R is nice :-) I did the same - you sat silent and blushed - each timeBtw. Hoshikaze's English impressed me (Showing respect...) :-) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...)[/quote]

Edited May 22, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Jonosuke]

I agree with Kinta that you really need to talk to them for a while to really know.

Sometimes even then you really don't know. Musashimaru is one. He is not a talkative individual and sometimes his replies sound so vague that you really don't know if he actually understood the question or was intentionally making such a reply. I think he understands Japanese far more than people give credit for.

Both Akebono and Asashoryu have no problems in press conferences and if they get something they are not sure they can hide them well. Other than Kyokutenho and possibly Asashoryu, none of the other active foreign born rikishi would be mistaken for native born but then they don't need to be. They really don't have to be totally fluent to survive the day to day rikishi life.

[ryafuji]

I'd be interested to know how good Kokkai's Japanese is as apparently he speaks English and Russian as well as his native Georgian.

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

In my host family in Matsumoto I asked about Asashoryu's Japanese from the head of the family while we were listening to his long talk. He pointed out that Shoryu's Japanese is very fluent but it is also clear foreigner's Japanese with grammar errors and ways to say some stuff. Perhaps Japanese who say his Japanese is like native refer to the fluency and maybe even pronounciation but at least my host family members were firmly saying that no Japanese native would speak like he does in some grammatical ways and ways to say things. It would actually be very strange if he could sound like a total native. I have never seen any foreigner who didn't move to Finland as a child that could speak Finnish that would fool me into thinking it is native Finnish, no matter how fluent. There are always some differences that are clear.

I suppose it is a big factor how much foreigners spend time with natives and interact. It is said that Hakurozan has been much more integrated in his heya than Roho in his own. Maybe that was the reason he is better in Japanese and he is said to be more open too.

Akebono mastered even some advanced grammar well in his Japanese flow at the end of his sumo career. I have many old tapes from that time and now when I understand the language, looking at those tapes again is great fun.

Big question is always how to define fluency or language skills. It doesn't say anything about real language skills if rikishi can talk fluently about sumo. Put a rikishi in a bank to open an account and discuss possible investment possibilities or make him go alone to buy a house from real estate agent who explains the details of the house and so on. But for a rikishi it is enough to know the sumo stuff well and then be able to communicate enough to survive in every day trivialities in Japan. Still it doesn't mean they are "fluent".

Good question to evaluate true Japanese skills would be to have rikishi listen to 20 minute news clip in Japanese about various topics including politics, sports, whatever crime stuff etc. and see how well he can follow that. And if news language is "too katai", then even some discussion panel where topic isn't sumo or something familiar to them.

It is annoying when people list "I speak English, Swedish, German, Japanese, Russian" and then when questioned more, they can understand just some of 2 of those languages and speak basic stuff and be at maximum moderate level in other 2 and fluent in only one". To be able to say "he speaks 4 languages" should require REAL skill in those languages. Someone said Baruto speaks English. Then in some interview revealed his English is very shallow and quite rudimentary. That is not equivalent of "CAN SPEAK ENGLISH". It is "understands some English and can speak it a bit".

Nobody says "I can bake well" when they have done buns twice and some apple pie once without major disasters.

[Harry]

News is tough! I can enjoy many of the "workplace" dramas on NHK (Haken no hinkaku is a favorite) and historical dramas, sumo and some other programmes but NHK News, BS News and so on are very challenging. All sorts of topics ranging from murders to natural disasters and poisoning, politics, economics and sports, lots of people and place names that I don't know and confuse for regular vocabulary, fast speaking with multiple speakers combine to create something where I'm better off reading the Japanese subtitles than trying to listen as the same subtitle generally stays on the screen for a while at a time and lets me get a summary at least! Some of the general talk shows are difficult too. I like the music programmes too, again as they often have subtitles in Japanese and they sing slowly and pop songs always say the same things, just like over here I guess.

[Fay]

Kakuryu's japanese is very fluent and good - that's what my friend says.

Kyokutenho started to speak with me during chanko in a way, japanese talk to foreigners, very slow and easy. He continued to do so with my friend until she stopped him and said he could speak normal japanese with her (Clapping wildly...)

[Umigame]

The funniest mistake I've seen in an interview was from Wakanoho. A few basho back he was interviewed towards the end of the basho -- I think it was day 12.

In answer to one of the questions, he said "I will gambarize next basho too."

The announcer was shocked and said "What??? There's still 3 days left in THIS basho!!! (Clapping wildly...)

To be fair though, he's only been in Japan for what, 3 years? I've been here for 5 and I still embarrass myself in Japanese on a daily basis... (Clapping wildly...)

[Fujisan]

I would just be happy for any Rikishi to speak to me,any language will do.

Even "Get of my foot you big footed b*gger."

[Koneko]

Hehe, same here Fujisan. Body language would do just fine, or flag semaphore for that matter...'cos it would mean I was in Japan. (Clapping wildly...)

Okay, sorry for spamming. Please continue!

[Mark Buckton]

Someone said Baruto speaks English. Then in some interview revealed his English is very shallow and quite rudimentary. That is not equivalent of "CAN SPEAK ENGLISH". It is "understands some English and can speak it a bit".

I have had the chance to speak with Baruto at length - and he is an excellent speaker of English. He is not fluent, but is VERY good. I woulodn't let one interview - limited in length, influence you on this particular guy.

FWLIW too - his tsukebito today was Masutoo - still in pain with his left ankle, hating the humidity as do we all, but more than happy to chew the fat while ignoring the pic takers.

[Kotoviki]

I'd be interested to know how good Kokkai's Japanese is as apparently he speaks English and Russian as well as his native Georgian.

I'd be interested to have another go with Kokkai if he really does speak English because he and I talked on the jungyo tour and when I spoke two words of English to him he looked like I was from another planet. Since Tochinoshin speaks NO English and has no interest in learning it I asked Kokkai if he spoke English and he said "NO!"

On the other hand the Japanese he and I used seemed good enough but again I'm not a great judge since I'm not Japanese...

Back to Japanese, of the lower ranked guys after talking at length with Kaisei twice last weekend my Japanese friend commented that he had the most polite Japanese & clearest pronunciation of any of the foreign Rikishi we've talked at length with recently! He also speaks some English and seems to have a desire to learn more! As an English teacher that is always encouraging for me!!!

[Mark Buckton]

I'd be interested to know how good Kokkai's Japanese is as apparently he speaks English and Russian as well as his native Georgian.

Kokkai speaks a very limited amount of English but limited is the best way to describe it.