May 2008 Banzuke

[Kintamayama]

Asashouryuu Y Hakuhou

Kotomitsuki O KaioU

Chiyotaikai O Kotooushuu

Ama S Kotoshougiku

Kisenosato K Asasekiryuu

Kokkai 1 Baruto

Kyokutenhou 2 Wakanohou

Miyabiyama 3 Kakuryuu

Tokitenkuu 4 Aminishiki

Tochiouzan 5 Toyonoshima

Futenou 6 Hokutouriki

Takamisakari 7 Goueidou

Tochinonada 8 Takekaze

Kasugaou 9 Rohou

Dejima 10 Wakanosato

Iwakiyama 11 Houmashou

Tosanoumi 12 Tamakasuga

Kakizoe 13 Tamanoshima

Tochinoshin 14 Yoshikaze

Hakurozan 15 Toyohibiki

Kotokasuga 16 Hakuba

Juryo:

Wakakirin 1 Kitataiki

Tamawashi 2 Kimurayama

Masatsukasa 3 Toyozakura

Kasuganishiki 4 Outsukasa

Kaihou 5 Ryuuou

Hoshihikari 6 Moukonami

Ushiomaru 7 Kouryuu

Kyokunankai 8 Kitazakura

Sakaizawa 9 Shirononami

Daiyuubu 10 Shimotori

Chiyohakuhou 11 Ichihara

Kirinowaka 12 Sagatsukasa

Wakakouyuu 13 Asoofuji

Bushuuyama 14 Katayama

Makushita:

Hokutokuni 1 Tosayutaka

Yamamotoyama 2 Aran

Kotoyutaka 3 Ryuuhou

Mori 4 Houchiyama

Kanbayashi 5 Takakoyama

Wakatenrou 6 Shoutenrou

Yamasaki 7 Hoshikaze

Minami 8 Satoyama

Yoshiazuma 9 Dairaidou

Tokusegawa 10 Kaounishiki

Shimoda 11 Senshou

Sugita 12 Tamaasuka

Nakano 13 Ri

Daishouyama 14 Soukokurai

Kasugakuni 15 Nakanokuni

Juumonji 16 Kirinoumi

Kotokuni 17 Matsutani

Fukuoka 18 Hayasegawa

Daimanazuru 19 Shiratsuka

Asahisakari 20 Tamarikidou

Edited April 23, 2008 by Kintamayama

[aderechelsea]

isn't that a bit harsh on Kaiho?

no complains on Daiyubu's promotion though

Edited April 23, 2008 by aderechelsea

[messi19]

Normally the Yokozuna East fights the Komusubi West on Shonichi. Obviously Asashoryu cannot face Asasekiryu though. Who is he likely to be matched up against instead? Will they pair him with Kisenosato who would normally face Hakuho? I guess we can't tell for sure, but what's the most likely scenario?

[messi19]

By the way this just got me thinking that Hakuho would probably not mind if he had to face someone other than Kisenosato on Day 1. They've faced each other on shonichi twice and Kisenosato won both times. On the other hand Asasekiryu - another possible shonichi opponent considering the Takasago beya issue - also handed him a Day 1 loss in Nagoya 2006.

Edited April 23, 2008 by messi19

[Kintamayama]

Tochinoshin 14 Yoshikaze

Hakurozan 15 Toyohibiki

Kotokasuga 16 Hakuba

It took Kotokasuga 91 basho to reach Makuuchi, second only to Hoshiiwato with 115. Tochinoshin made it in 13, tied for 10th place with Takahanda and others.

16 Makuuchi foreigners- a record. 22 foreign sekitori- a record.

[Jonosuke]

I also note that there are pretty formidable college rikishi in upper Makushita who could easily jump into Juryo at Nagoya.

It will be fascinating to see how they do against each other but I will wait for Kaikitsune's assessment.

[HenryK]

So they "resolved" the Kokkai issue as most expected.

Wakakirin got a pretty rough treatment imo.

[kaiguma]

So they "resolved" the Kokkai issue as most expected.

Wakakirin got a pretty rough treatment imo.

Heh. I thought he got off easy. I had him at J2E...

Rough treatment I would reserve for Homasho and in a way even Kaiho. His 7-rank fall follows perfectly the mathematical model we generally use, but it doesn't normally translate that way across a demotion with a large loss. Especially not when he is surpassed by an enormous 4-point leap for Toyozakura's 8-7 and also by Otsukasa who scored only one win better at 2 ranks down.

[Harry]

So they "resolved" the Kokkai issue as most expected.

Wakakirin got a pretty rough treatment imo.

Heh. I thought he got off easy. I had him at J2E...

Rough treatment I would reserve for Homasho and in a way even Kaiho. His 7-rank fall follows perfectly the mathematical model we generally use, but it doesn't normally translate that way across a demotion with a large loss. Especially not when he is surpassed by an enormous 4-point leap for Toyozakura's 8-7 and also by Otsukasa who scored only one win better at 2 ranks down.

I played GTB and while I'm a huge fan of Homasho and usually I let my favorites go against all logic when making picks in the sumo games I put him at 11W because there was a logjam of demotions ahead of him. The ones who were promoted higher faired much better but Takamisakari, Futenou and Tochiozan got more wins and started out a little further out. If its any consolation for Homasho he could put another good string of wins together before being tossed into the meat grinder while I think Tochiozan may have a rough time jumping from M12e to M5e.

I agree in thinking they were too rough on Wakakirin. My GTB had him at M15e which may have been a bit generous but I was surprised to see all 6 pull ups from juryo which is why he was kicked out. Tamanoshima from J5e at 10-5 was a surprise for me but hey, it'll be great to see so many new and returning faces in makuuchi.

[Asashosakari]

From the useless stats file: It's the first time that the top five juryo rikishi on one side of the banzuke were all promoted. (The top four has happened multiple times, most recently after Aki 2006.)

Rough treatment I would reserve for Homasho and in a way even Kaiho. His 7-rank fall follows perfectly the mathematical model we generally use, but it doesn't normally translate that way across a demotion with a large loss. Especially not when he is surpassed by an enormous 4-point leap for Toyozakura's 8-7 and also by Otsukasa who scored only one win better at 2 ranks down.

Yes, they really had it in for most of the makuuchi demotees this time - other than Wakakirin (who really can't go anywhere other than J1e if you do demote him), I was off by at least 1.5 ranks on everybody in my unposted juryo guess. It's a very sumogame-y way to handle things, with basically no credit given for the fact that these rikishi were in makuuchi and those moving ahead of them weren't. I'm not complaining though. More dynamic banzuke = good, as far as I'm concerned. Second basho in a row that high juryo features lots of relatively new faces...last basho five of the top seven juryo had no makuuchi experience, this time it's four of the top five (and completely different guys than last basho, too).

Homasho's rank somewhat surprised me, too, but I must admit their solution is probably better than what I sent in for GTB which had him and Wakanosato flipped (big 6.5 rank demotion for the latter), with Iwakiyama at the correct spot in-between. Sucks for Homasho, but he seems to have a knack for getting himself into these banzuke jams; that's at least the third time in the last couple of years I can recall.

I agree in thinking they were too rough on Wakakirin. My GTB had him at M15e which may have been a bit generous but I was surprised to see all 6 pull ups from juryo which is why he was kicked out. Tamanoshima from J5e at 10-5 was a surprise for me but hey, it'll be great to see so many new and returning faces in makuuchi.

Okay, I can understand being surprised that they had six promotions, but how was Tamanoshima being one of them a surprise?

Edited April 24, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Harry]

I agree in thinking they were too rough on Wakakirin. My GTB had him at M15e which may have been a bit generous but I was surprised to see all 6 pull ups from juryo which is why he was kicked out. Tamanoshima from J5e at 10-5 was a surprise for me but hey, it'll be great to see so many new and returning faces in makuuchi.

Okay, I can understand being surprised that they had six promotions, but how was Tamanoshima being one of them a surprise?

You're right that Tamanoshima's 10-5 record was excellent in haru. I simply felt that they couldn't promote Tamanoshima over top of Tochinoshin and Hakuba who we already knew were being promoted; I think I'd read that Hakurozan would be in makuuchi with his brother as well. Perhaps we already knew Tamanoshima was promoted too but I forgot? Maybe the 6 should have been obvious but of course I can't find the articles about the promotions now to check them. Perhaps the kaigi felt that they couldn't promote Tamanoshima over top of the other high KK juryo so they just brought the whole lot of 6 up. Since I couldn't bring myself to take all 6 up and most of those promotions were at least a little generous (8-7 taking you to a new division from outside of J1, Hakuba I think was quite generous 8-7 from J3w) so I just thought I would take the top 5 instead of promoting Tamanoshima over others. I guess they felt the need to punish all the low ranked MK makuuchi but kicking them down to juryo. Should be lots of action in the sekitori divisions for natsu anyways.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Harry

[Harry]

You're right that Tamanoshima's 10-5 record was excellent in haru. I simply felt that they couldn't promote Tamanoshima over top of Tochinoshin and Hakuba who we already knew were being promoted; I think I'd read that Hakurozan would be in makuuchi with his brother as well. Perhaps we already knew Tamanoshima was promoted too but I forgot? Maybe the 6 should have been obvious but of course I can't find the articles about the promotions now to check them. Perhaps the kaigi felt that they couldn't promote Tamanoshima over top of the other high KK juryo so they just brought the whole lot of 6 up. Since I couldn't bring myself to take all 6 up and most of those promotions were at least a little generous (8-7 taking you to a new division from outside of J1, Hakuba I think was quite generous 8-7 from J3w) so I just thought I would take the top 5 instead of promoting Tamanoshima over others. I guess they felt the need to punish all the low ranked MK makuuchi but kicking them down to juryo. Should be lots of action in the sekitori divisions for natsu anyways.

Anyway, Tamanoshima's promotion was the most normal of those 6. A brief look at recent 10-5's in J5, J4 will show you how those guys usually get high promotions. Against the odds were Toyozakura's 4 rank promotion and Kokkai's denied Komusubi slot.

Again I just couldn't figure they'd take all six and I already knew about another 4. In hindsight Kotokasuga might have been the one to leave behind but again I couldn't see sending Tamanoshima over top of him.

I thought Kokkai's komusubi promotion was historically unlikely but I'll admit I'm not using any history in my GTB picks as the kaigi doesn't seem to be using it much either.

They brought Kasuganishiki up right along behind Toyozakura. Both just had 8-7 records but got large promotions like the 8-7s above them (Hakurozan, Kotokasuga and Hakuba). KK was valuable indeed it seems to the natsu kaigi.

[Fujisan]

Question now is can Kotokasuga follow his Heya mates up the banzuke or will he disappear a lot quicker than he appeared?

I'm guessing the second option.....

[aderechelsea]

Question now is can Kotokasuga follow his Heya mates up the banzuke or will he disappear a lot quicker than he appeared?

I'm guessing the second option.....

i've learned well by now that you cannot underestimate Kotokasuga.

I was waiting for his "deflation" so many times before that i've just given up now (Blinking...)

[messi19]

Juryo seems very even this time. No Baruto/Iwakiyama type in there, neither a truly impressive up-and comer making his sekitori debut like Tochinoshin in January and therefore no clear fronrunner as far as the yusho is concerned. Sakaizawa and Ichihara are always in with a shot based on their ability, but they're coming off injuries. Taking that into account I'd be surprised if someone ended up with a better record than 12-3. Even 12-3 might be a stretch. Kimurayama did go 12-3 last time, but I can't imagine him repeating that record.

Edited April 24, 2008 by messi19

[Nanami]

Juryo:

Wakakirin 1 Kitataiki

Tamawashi 2 Kimurayama

Masatsukasa 3 Toyozakura

Kasuganishiki 4 Outsukasa

Kaihou 5 Ryuuou

Hoshihikari 6 Moukonami

Ushiomaru 7 Kouryuu

Kyokunankai 8 Kitazakura

Sakaizawa 9 Shirononami

Daiyuubu 10 Shimotori

Chiyohakuhou 11 Ichihara

Were the 2 injured lower Maegashira rikishi (sp?), Ichihara and Sakaizawa, treated within the norm by being ranked in the lower part of Juryo on the Natsu 2008 Banzuke?

[higginbotham]

Juryo:

Wakakirin 1 Kitataiki

Tamawashi 2 Kimurayama

Masatsukasa 3 Toyozakura

Kasuganishiki 4 Outsukasa

Kaihou 5 Ryuuou

Hoshihikari 6 Moukonami

Ushiomaru 7 Kouryuu

Kyokunankai 8 Kitazakura

Sakaizawa 9 Shirononami

Daiyuubu 10 Shimotori

Chiyohakuhou 11 Ichihara

Were the 2 injured lower Maegashira rikishi (sp?), Ichihara and Sakaizawa, treated within the norm by being ranked in the lower part of Juryo on the Natsu 2008 Banzuke?

yes, they were, although it could be expected Ichihara to be placed a bit higher.

Edited April 24, 2008 by higginbotham

[HenryK]

Juryo seems very even this time. No Baruto/Iwakiyama type in there, neither a truly impressive up-and comer making his sekitori debut like Tochinoshin in January and therefore no clear fronrunner as far as the yusho is concerned. Sakaizawa and Ichihara are always in with a shot based on their ability, but they're coming off injuries. Taking that into account I'd be surprised if someone ended up with a better record than 12-3. Even 12-3 might be a stretch. Kimurayama did go 12-3 last time, but I can't imagine him repeating that record.

Ichihara?

[Jonosuke]

It took Kotokasuga 91 basho to reach Makuuchi, second only to Hoshiiwato with 115.

The wait must have been all worhwhile for him. After the usual celebration interview, he introduced his bride to be by announcing his engagement as well as kissing her cheek in front of all reporters at his heya. I am still waiting for the pic from Kinta.

[Asojima]

The wait must have been all worhwhile for him. After the usual celebration interview, he introduced his bride to be by announcing his engagement as well as kissing her cheek in front of all reporters at his heya. I am still waiting for the pic from Kinta.

Here it is.

[Harry]

They look very happy and make a cute couple. I wish them all the best and KK for Kotokasuga. Does he have a blog or anything? I couldn't find one.

[higginbotham]

They look very happy and make a cute couple. I wish them all the best and KK for Kotokasuga. Does he have a blog or anything? I couldn't find one.

Considering his walk of life he's more likely to have a Ryuho or Daimazuru-like debut, but a surprisingly 8 may be within reach.

Edited April 25, 2008 by higginbotham

[ryafuji]

So they "resolved" the Kokkai issue as most expected.

Wakakirin got a pretty rough treatment imo.

Yes I thought Wakakirin was a bit unlucky too. I was expecting him, and not Hakuba, to be M16W. Especially as what I thought was a crucial final day win after two mono-iis turned out to be not crucial at all!:)

Edited April 24, 2008 by ryafuji

[Doitsuyama]

According to the GTB selection stats Futeno got hit pretty hard with only 6 players expecting him at M6 or worse. Hakuba / Wakakirin was a close call with 45 having Hakuba and 44 Wakakirin in makuuchi. The other promotions were pretty much expected, Tamanoshima for example had 89 of 91 "votes".

[Harry]

According to the GTB selection stats Futeno got hit pretty hard with only 6 players expecting him at M6 or worse. Hakuba / Wakakirin was a close call with 45 having Hakuba and 44 Wakakirin in makuuchi. The other promotions were pretty much expected, Tamanoshima for example had 89 of 91 "votes".

I was one of the two who forgot about poor Tamanoshima...

Thanks for the cool stats.