Kaio's Road to 808

[Bilu]

Kaio has currently 727 Makuuchi wins.

Record holder is Chiyonofuji with 807, followed by Kitanoumi (804) and Taiho (746).

Kaio is very likely to surpass Taiho this year (maybe in Aki), and, should he continue winning at a rate of 8 wins per basho, he will break the record in less than two years.

Is he aiming for this record?

Will he do it?

Will he be 'allowed' to do it?

Edited February 8, 2009 by Bilu

[Sokkenaiyama]

Aiming for it? Maybe, only he can answer you that.

Will he be 'allowed'? Why not?

Can he do it? Yes, he can, but he won't. While he could probably go on for a couple of years more in maegashira, he's going to retire before he can be demoted from Ozeki.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Sokkenaiyama

[Bilu]

Will he be 'allowed'? Why not?

Well, what I've meant by "Will he be allowed to" is: will the kyokai allow him to.

It seems kind of 'historically inappropriate' for an Ozeki (though a great Ozeki) to hold such a key record, surpassing sumo legends such as Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi and Taiho.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Bilu

[Asashosakari]

It seems kind of 'historically inappropriate' for an Ozeki (though a great Ozeki) to hold such a key record, surpassing sumo legends such as Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi and Taiho.

He already passed Takanohana last year, and I don't recall seeing much in the Japanese sports press beyond "that's interesting, isn't it" type of commentary. I think most people realize that it's as much a "longevity" record as it is one of excellence.

[Sasanishiki]

You have ruled out the possibility that in getting those 80 wins he might actually become yokozuna ;-)

Be that as it may, if he keeps getting kachikoshi and his body holds together then he can go on for as long as he wants. I personally don;t see him getting there as I don't think he will last another 10 basho, and I don't see him regularly getting more than 9 or 10 wins per basho.

[higginbotham]

He also is queuing for most Makuuchi bouts with 1171, a lot behind Takamiyama's 1430. It is not a record for an oozeki though.

Edited March 13, 2008 by higginbotham

[aderechelsea]

my bet is that he won't do it.

no conspiracies involved ... just "early" retirement. His body seems unable to keep winning 8 bouts per basho for the next 2 years.

[kame]

ah, i wish he did it just to silence all those naysayers who keep calling for Kaio's retirement. i mean, the guy's been doing sumo for 20 years and battling yokozuna for 12 of those. despite some nasty injuries, age, and dozens of bright young "stars" he's held the rank of ozeki fair and square. Kaio's a rock and he deserves nothing but (Neener, neener...)

[Kotobaru]

ah, i wish he did it just to silence all those naysayers who keep calling for Kaio's retirement. i mean, the guy's been doing sumo for 20 years and battling yokozuna for 12 of those. despite some nasty injuries, age, and dozens of bright young "stars" he's held the rank of ozeki fair and square. Kaio's a rock and he deserves nothing but ;-)

Well said, I'm fan of Kaio's from the time I started to watch Sumo. He was first who I was able to match the name and figure. All these Japanese names were quite fuzzy in the beginning :) But he was easy to recognize. I'll join to (Shaking head...)

About the record I think it's not important for him. In one interview he said that he didn't recognize he had surpassed Takanohana's number and I do believe him. I think he's not the nature who cares a lot of any records. So I wish him success in what he really likes to do and when retiring doing it with honor.

[Bilu]

Kaio is 36 today - Happy Birthday!

He overtook Taiho at 3rd place all-time - at 747 career makuuchi wins - by winning his 8th today.

He needs just 61 more wins to surpass Chiyonofuji and become the all-time leader.

His last 6 tournaments records are: 8-7, 1-5-9, 9-6, 8-7, 8-7, 8-7.

Assuming 8 wins a basho, he will break the record in ~7.5 bashos.

Edited July 25, 2008 by Bilu

[Sokkenaiyama]

See my post in May or whenever it was. He won't do it.

[_the_mind_]

See my post in May or whenever it was. He won't do it.

well that settles that.

[Bilu]

In 'Rikishi Talk', he's often quoted as if he doesn't care much about the record.

I find it hard to believe - it seems like a major record in the sumo world. Chiyonofuji has retired only after securing it by 3 wins (though obviously I don't know what went through his mind at the time).

Kaio has good chances of breaking it - as an Ozeki. If he decides to stay in makuuchi even below Ozeki - he will surely break it.

My question is: when is the time (if ever) that one of the old boys (say, Kitanoumi) approach Kaio, tap him on the shoulder and say: "dude, it's about time you retire. It's inappropriate that an Ozeki will hold such a prominent record in sumo".

Edited July 24, 2008 by Bilu

[Harry]

Ironically, it is easier to stay for a long time if you are NOT promoted to Yokozuna. Any Yokozuna with Kaoi or Chiyotaikai's kadobans would have been forced to retire. Much as I admire the long serving Ozeki, the bar is set much higher for a Yokozuna.

So, perhaps one solution is to promote Kaoi and Chiyotaikai to Yokozuna :-D

[Asashosakari]

Ironically, it is easier to stay for a long time if you are NOT promoted to Yokozuna. Any Yokozuna with Kaoi or Chiyotaikai's kadobans would have been forced to retire.

Well, who knows, they might have been much healthier in the long run if they could simply skip a couple of tournaments when necessary instead of fighting for their rank. But the effect is still there as far as the win record goes...even if they were rarely kadoban, it's much easier to pile up the numbers if you can limp to 8 and 9 wins each basho than if you're expected to drop out of the race after a shaky 3-2 start, like Asashoryu did this basho.

Anyway, for that same reason I doubt there will be any pressure on him not to break Chiyonofuji's record. Everybody realizes that Kaio is doing it with longevity, not with dai-yokozuna performances. It's not like you can also threaten Taiho's yusho record just by hanging in there, and besides I'd argue that record is much more important in sumo lore.

Edit: Oh, I see I said pretty much the same thing four months ago. Go figure. But one more thing...

I find it hard to believe - it seems like a major record in the sumo world. Chiyonofuji has retired only after securing it by 3 wins (though obviously I don't know what went through his mind at the time).

Given that he tied the record while clinching a yusho, I suppose he wasn't hanging on merely to get that record for himself...

Edited July 24, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

In 'Rikishi Talk', he's often quoted as if he doesn't care much about the record.

Every rikishi in every interview, when asked if he is thinking of his yusho chances/record/intai/important match/health etc.. ALWAYS replies with "I'm not thinking about that at all", which is the other half of "Gambarimasu".

[Bealzbob]

According to the DB, he broke Taiho today with 747.

[Bilu]

According to the DB, he broke Taiho today with 747.

Yes, it's already the Boeing.. My mistake. I looked at the NSK official page. Apparently, it updates only some hours after the bout results are published. Post corrected.

[Hananotaka]

Kaio has good chances of breaking it - as an Ozeki. If he decides to stay in makuuchi even below Ozeki - he will surely break it.

My question is: when is the time (if ever) that one of the old boys (say, Kitanoumi) approach Kaio, tap him on the shoulder and say: "dude, it's about time you retire. It's inappropriate that an Ozeki will hold such a prominent record in sumo".

This will never happen. It is never inappropriate for an Ozeki to hold a prominent record. Yokozuna themselves are simply considered Super-Ozeki, in as much as no Yokozuna are necessary for a basho, but there must be two Ozeki, and if there are less than two Ozeki and there's at least one Yokozuna, that Yokozuna becomes a "Yokozuna-Ozeki".

Edited July 25, 2008 by Hananotaka

[Bilu]

Update:

Kaio is currently at 758 wins. Only 50 to go to break the record.

He keeps saying he won't retire until he feels "he had given it all" (or similar).

Why doesn't he quit? (Holiday feeling...)

Well, 50 wins to go! (I am not worthy...)

Edited November 12, 2008 by Bilu

[Bilu]

Kaio update:

Kaio has escaped Kadoban in January, finishing with an 8-7 record.

His current Makuuchi wins total stand at 766 - 3rd all-time after Chiyonofuji (807) and Kitanoumi (804).

He needs only 42 more wins to break the record. He won 43 in the last 6 bashos:

March 08: 8-7

May: 8-7

July: 9-6

Sep: 9-6

Nov: 1-3-11

Jan. 09: 8-7

Will he break the record?

Edited February 9, 2009 by Bilu

[Sokkenaiyama]

I stand by what I said. He won't break it, he'll retire soon.

[Bilu]

I stand by what I said. He won't break it, he'll retire soon.

Are you saying he'll retire soon becuase he will be demoted from Ozeki?

If so, this will take at least two more bashos..

[Sokkenaiyama]

No, he'll retire before he gets demoted, when the demotion becomes very likely or when he feels he might not be able to keep going. And the appendicitis ain't making things any better, so I'll give him 2-3 bashos at most. (Now watch him stay throughout 2009...)

[Bilu]

No, he'll retire before he gets demoted, when the demotion becomes very likely or when he feels he might not be able to keep going. And the appendicitis ain't making things any better, so I'll give him 2-3 bashos at most. (Now watch him stay throughout 2009...)

With the current Ozeki back-scratching club - he could go on forever!!!

Actually, I feel it will be highly undignified for this prominent record to be held by Kaio (if and when), given his poor performances in the last 3-4 years.

By keep hangning on there - Kaio is just tarnishing his legacy. If he stays long enough to break the record - he will be degrading Ozumo. For me this would mean I could never see him in a positive light again.