The "S" word

[Chinonofuji]

Is the use of steroids, or other performance-enhancing drugs, a topic that has been broached in the world of sumo? Does anyone know how prevalent this is? Is there testing? On the one hand, it seems like it must happen, given all the competitive pressures common in sports, and also given all the injuries. Also, with the massive weight and strength difference between some wrestlers, I imagine some would be tempted...

On the other hand, given the importance of honor and tradition in sumo, I would think most would be too ashamed of being caught to try. Also, the insular world of sumo (living with the other wrestlers, busy all day, etc.) would make it more difficult, right? Or would it make it easier for drugs to be spread around?

Anyway, wondering if anyone knows? Is this a well-worn topic, or is it mostly speculation?

Thanks.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

100% speculation just like yaocho.

I've read there has been tests but I don't recall anyone ever getting caught. My personal guess is that there is (or at least there has been) doping in sumo but probably in far smaller scale than one would initially suspect for the reasons you already listed quite exhaustively.

[Naifuzan]

There were some talk about drug testing a while ago, but I think it was postponed or something like that...

Hopefully someone else can give you the details (Enjoying a beer...)

[Zenjimoto]

I've touched on it before, but my thought on the "postponement" of drug testing was, too many rikishi would FAIL it... and so, in order to avoid another scandal, the Kyokai decided to bury the dog...

Cheers

Z.

[Yoavoshimaru]

I think we had a recent thread on this topic... Like others, I think there's no doubt some rikishi have dabbled in doping. I don't know how much it would matter in sumo, given all the rikishi have pretty much the same diet and workouts.

[Chinonofuji]

I don't know how much it would matter in sumo, given all the rikishi have pretty much the same diet and workouts.

Well, but don't steroids help you maximize the benefit of your diet and workouts? I think it could make quite a bit of difference, the difference b/t 7-8 and 8-7 of course being a significant one.

I'm surprised that there isn't at least mandatory testing for the champion of each basho, or the top three finishers. Well, OK, I'm not that surprised given the group we're talking about here, but it's got to happen sometime or another.

Also, and very frankly said, I'm also a little surprised that no one in the Japanese media has brought up the idea that a certain very strong, quick, and ill-tempered champion wrestler we know might have used steroids. (And no, I'm not saying I think that's what's happened, just that I'm surprised the press hasn't even brought it up.) I guess Japan is in a very different place than say, U.S. baseball, where one hears ex-players routinely talk about 50% or more of the players using drugs...

[Asashosakari]

Also, and very frankly said, I'm also a little surprised that no one in the Japanese media has brought up the idea that a certain very strong, quick, and ill-tempered champion wrestler we know might have used steroids.

I'm not, simply because I would guess that Japan's libel laws are at least similar to those of Western countries. It's one thing to write gossip-y stuff like "Asashoryu broke the mirror of Kyokushuzan's car" that may or may not be true, but to actually insinuate that he might be using/might have used illegal substances is on a whole different level.

At any rate, as you've kind of pointed out, I guess the major advantage of using steroids would be more pure strength (IANAD). But in a sport as much dominated by technical skills as by strength, I'm not sure how far that would actually take you. Sumo isn't shotputting after all.

EPO and other substances that enhance oxygen reception by the blood might be a different matter, but no matter what the substance in question, I'm not sure how easy these would be to get by rikishi, due to their relatively rigid life-style, and probably little free time (at least in the lower ranks). Maybe if the heya's shisho was involved, but if something like that actually took place, I would bet the Kyokai would quietly clamp down on it. Again, IANAD, so I'm mostly winging it here as far as actual medical terms go...apologies if I got any of it wrong.

[Takanobaka]

Somehow I feel like there should be a thread connect here to the one about the spots on Kaio's back (Enjoying a beer...) (kidding, seriously)

Even if steroids aren't being used so much, there almost certainly are some hormones being used. Yeah, the diet and lifestyle can get you big, but it usually doesn't happen so suddenly that your body is immediately unable to handle the weight. Anyone else notice how injuries seem more prevalent over the past decade or so (and hairier rikishi, Jesse aside)...

As far as Bob Sapp goes, it's such a given that it doesn't even need to be discussed, much the same way as nobody said anything about Hulk Hogan back in the 80's. Besides, K1 is really only part entertainment and part bloodsport....nothing that the sanctity needs to be protected for anyhow....

[Yoavoshimaru]

U.S. baseball, where one hears ex-players routinely talk about 50% or more of the players using drugs...

Keep in mind this "routine" is very recent: past year or two, no more. Given the normally more secretive, private nature of Japanese society and citizens, it may take a while if this ever become a common conversation topic.

I'm sure there are private discussions every now and then among NSK members regarding drug testing. I also think if there was enough pressure from the people of Japan, a testing program would be instituted. Would there ever be such pressure? I don't know... Would an effective program be put in place? I don't know :-D

[Takanobaka]

this is :-D but on a side note....

This one strikes me as absurd. Today, the Olympics removed caffeine from its banned substances list. CAFFEINE!?!?! You mean to tell me that olympic athletes couldn't drink a coke or take headache medicine because it contained a banned substance!?

That, however, does lead to one other reason this issue probably got tabled....where to set the limit. Whenever a system is instituted, they probably won't want to limit it solely to anabolic steroids (Andro and Human growth hormone come to mind as a couple of others that could especially create problems within sumo). Between veiled threats of a strike, waning popularity (until the economy turns around hopefully), and feuds in the media, NSK probably mostly felt like it didn't need any more negative publicity than it's already getting. I'm sure the issue will be addressed someday, but it will either be way down the road or when a popular rikishi suddenly dies from a supplement related death (if that gets exposed by the media)...

[Yubiquitoyama]

this is  :-D but on a side note....

This one strikes me as absurd.  Today, the Olympics removed caffeine from its banned substances list.  CAFFEINE!?!?!  You mean to tell me that olympic athletes couldn't drink a coke or take headache medicine because it contained a banned substance!?

Caffeine even in the amount found in coffee has some effects. I am not sure if it would be more than allowed though. I recall a case of coffeine doping of a female athlete (not sure which sport) quite recently (maybe a few months ago, but I can

Edited September 17, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

It's one thing to write gossip-y stuff like "Asashoryu broke the mirror of Kyokushuzan's car" that may or may not be true (...)

Moreover, I've understood there's not an insignicant amount of technique included in shotputting. :-D But naturally I got your point.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

I recall a case of coffeine doping of a female athlete (not sure which sport) quite recently (maybe a few months ago, but I can

[Asashosakari]

Caffeine even in the amount found in coffee has some effects. I am not sure if it would be more than allowed though. I recall a case of coffeine doping of a female athlete (not sure which sport) quite recently (maybe a few months ago, but I can

[Ryunokaze]

I think it would be foolish to think,in this day and age, that controlled drugs are not being used in all sports.Sumo included.

While we are speculating wildly, have a think about Chiyonofuji and his meteoric rise after sustaining an injury.He could well have been introduced to sterroids at that point.He was known to be bad tempered and prone to fits or rage.His muscle tone was/is extraordinary.I can tell you he is still solid now, as I was seated not an arms length away from him just a couple of weeks ago during keiko.

I do not think its true but I do like to think,sometimes.It fits this thread too.

All the best. :-D

[Yoavoshimaru]

I don't think Chiyonofuji used steroids, but one can always be wrong. The latter part of your message, how he's still solid and toned, suggested to me that he never used steroids because I would be shocked if he's still using them now (why would he?) yet here he is now, still solid and toned.

He got his most serious injury during, not before, his rise to yokozuna. I wouldn't call his rise meteoric, as he took a full 11 years from debut to yokozuna. He quit after winning the last basho he participated in, so he could've kept competing for a while longer, he wasn't desperate to win more.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

He quit after winning the last basho he participated in (...)

The last basho he completed, that is. In his last basho (Natsu 1991) he quit after three days and ended 1-3-11.

Day 1, loss to maegashira Takahanada* by yorikiri.

Day 2, win over maegashira Itai by yorikiri.

Day 3, loss to komusubi Takatoriki by tottari.

Day 4, loss to maegashira Daishoyama by fusenpai.

* Later yokozuna Takanohana, naturally.

[Asashosakari]

The last basho he completed, that is. In his last basho (Natsu 1991) he quit after three days and ended 1-3-11.

Day 1, loss to maegashira Takahanada* by yorikiri.

Day 2, win over maegashira Itai by yorikiri.

Day 3, loss to komusubi Takatoriki by tottari.

Day 4, loss to maegashira Daishoyama by fusenpai.

Interesting scheduling...I guess the general tradition to have Yokozuna face Komusubi on day 1 wasn't in place yet back then?

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

Is that an exceptionless rule even nowadays?

[Ryunokaze]

He got his most serious injury during, not before, his rise to yokozuna.

Edited September 19, 2003 by Ryunokaze

[Yubiquitoyama]

The last basho he completed, that is. In his last basho (Natsu 1991) he quit after three days and ended 1-3-11.

Day 1, loss to maegashira Takahanada* by yorikiri.

Day 2, win over maegashira Itai by yorikiri.

Day 3, loss to komusubi Takatoriki by tottari.

Day 4, loss to maegashira Daishoyama by fusenpai.

Interesting scheduling...I guess the general tradition to have Yokozuna face Komusubi on day 1 wasn't in place yet back then?

It was actually. Asahifuji met Komusubi Terao that day. There are exceptions however (even when not necessary because of more Yokozuna than Komusubi) and as I understand it the Kyokai especially tries to make interesting matchups for the Sundays (including day 1). Since the upcoming Takahanada-Chiyonofuji meeting had been much discussed even beforehand, it was probably quite natural for the Kyokai to have it directly day one.

[Yubiquitoyama]

He got his most serious injury during, not before, his rise to yokozuna.

[Ryunokaze]

It just goes to show that there may be a sleeper in the pack,today.

We are always looking for greatness in somebody new coming up.He could be staring us right in the face.Mmmm,I wonder...

All the best. ;-)

[Yubiquitoyama]

It just goes to show that there may be a sleeper in the pack,today.

We are always looking for greatness in somebody new coming up.He could be staring us right in the face.Mmmm,I wonder...

All the best. ;-)

Well, your Avatar would really be my best guess then. He really started to show good sumo before the injury, so I don't think he should be disregarded just yet. Although I doubt he'll win 31 yusho, I have no problem seeing him as a future Ozeki... :-D

Edited September 19, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

The essence of muscle build-up is protein synthesis. The word anabolic refers to build-up phase ie. proteins are being synthesized more than degraded. Catabolic state is what every strength athlete wants to avoid after a work out or so. Proteins are the core of rikishi's diet too and many drink protein drinks in addition to protein rich diet in order to guarantee sufficient intake of proteins. Of course if one takes too much protein, it is simply used as energy or in fat synthesis.

Testosterone is the reason why man opens a tight jar more often than a woman. Men in general are stronger than women largely because of testosterone levels. Estrogen (the lovely female equivalent of testosterone) also has similar anabolic affect but not nearly as strong as testosterone. Man's testicles make man strong. Without testicles man can't become physically very strong and this is a good reply to the utterly bizarre inquiry made by some civilians whether rikishi are castrated so that their hair will stay healthy and balding won't occur...castration would inhibit testosterone and that would mean a weak rikishi and hopeless sumo career.

Balding without testosterone is rather difficult. Not many balding women in the world....the reason is out of context of this post so I'll spare you ;-)

Anabolic steroids are synthesized testosterone mimmickers. The medical usage of anabolic steroids is extremely low nowadays so biggest markets are in sports. Nandrolone, statsolone etc. have slighty different molecular structure but basically they all affect much like testosterone. This is also one of the problems in this "industry" since it is difficult to make an anabolic steroid that would have the wanted anabolic affect but NOT the androgenic affect. Hence the low voice of female athletes who have used a lot of steroids, hence the side affects like breast growth ( part of testosterone or anabolic steroids are converted to estrogen in tissues so heavy male users can have 10 times more estrogen in their blood than a normal female...in sumo "breasts" are relatively common but this is not a clear sign of steroids as also in fat tissue estrogen is made and the same breast affect occurs in many overweight normal men).

So why would rikishi use steroids? Because of the protein synthesis and turning after work out -phase quickly into anabolic state which promotes muscle build-up after a hard work out. During a work out muscle cell evidently suffers from micro tears where the protein homeostasis of the muscle cell is disturbed. Naturally the muscle wants to get back in normal state so it starts the protein synthesis (muscle fibers are made of actine and myosine complex and the sliding movement of actine-myosine pairs is the contraction of the muscle ie. shortening of the muscle..actine and myosine ARE proteins!) and also TRIES to compensate the renewal so that next time it could endure the work out better! So it tries to grow bigger in order to prevent the annoying state of micro tears. Naturally at this point the athlete needs proteins! Steroids affect the muscle cells nucleus where they promote the synthesis of new proteins so anabolic steroids enhance muscle cell's ability to recover from work out and ensure anabolic state ie. protein synthesis inside the muscle.

Growth hormone has a slightly different way of life but it also promotes anabolic affects in the cell and as its name implies, it promotes growth.

In any case in ozumo anabolic steroids are used without any doubt. To what degree, that is only guesswork. Proves are impossible to find since no testing is made and nobody says "Sure, I'll have some nandrolone every now and then!". The nature of the sport favours faster recovery from work outs especially since rikishi train daily and same muscles get immense stress all the time. Such training is incredibly hard and overtraining risk very big.

Steroids are easy to get. If I'd want to use, all sorts of steroids, growth hormones etc. would be easy to find. In ozumo many rikishi have personal trainers nowadays, rikishi go to gym etc. At the end it all comes to rikishi's own principles whether they use or not. Also for some rikishi the drawbacks of using steroids may well be bigger than using them.