Hakuho or Asashoryu

[HenryK]

Overall Hakuho has had the better basho to date, and for ozumo it would be better if Asashoryu wouldn't win his very first basho 14-1 after a two-basho layoff when he's supposed to be ringrusty.

But I've a gutfeeling Asashoryu might edge it tomorrow.

[Randomitsuki]

It's the bout of the day in the Internet Sumo Pool game. Over there it's a rather lopsided 53-21 for Asashoryu as of now.

[scotsumo]

Overall Hakuho has had the better basho to date, and for ozumo it would be better if Asashoryu wouldn't win his very first basho 14-1 after a two-basho layoff when he's supposed to be ringrusty.

But I've a gutfeeling Asashoryu might edge it tomorrow.

One vote for Hakuko here, and another from my wife.

Paul

[paolo]

Hakuho's sumo was better than Asashoryu's along this basho up to now. Hakuho's traditional dancing style has become strong and effective, and beautiful to watch too. Asashoryu was clearly rusty and somewhat uncertain at the beginning, but he has consistently improved day by day, and gained self confidence. The way in which he won versus Dejima with a nage at the tawara; his wonderful move versus Ama (from uwate to attempt of sotogake and then back to uwate in a more favourable position); and even more versus Kotomitsuki when he stopped with apparent ease his opponent's push almost at the tawara; all this seems to say that the difference between the two has become much less than on the first days. But Hakuho should win tomorrow...The only weapons that Asashoryu has got in this moment are his pride and his determination. I don't think they are enough to make him win this time. Next time, who knows ?

[kaiguma]

Hakuho has also improved day by day besides the loss to Ama. So I say he still has the advantage. The win v Mickey was powerful and decisive; even Asa didn't impress like that despite his enormous psych advantage over the long-dogged rival.

[Fukurou]

from this thread:

Miss Uchidate, member of the YDC: (In shock after witnessing Hakuho's defeat in person and was heard muttering rhetorically) Who [in the world] would be happy if Hakuho lost on senshuraku?

I'd like to see Asa win, just to see Ms. Uchidate explode (literally)

[HenryK]

from this thread:

Miss Uchidate, member of the YDC: (In shock after witnessing Hakuho's defeat in person and was heard muttering rhetorically) Who [in the world] would be happy if Hakuho lost on senshuraku?

I'd like to see Asa win, just to see Ms. Uchidate explode (literally)

I admit this is a valid motivation -- seeing a riskihi winning a basho in "retirement"... (Holiday feeling...) This said, this can wait for the next basho.

I wonder though whether after this thrilling basho there are folks left who would want to see Asashoryu kicked out and return to "Hakuho and four lame Ozeki" ozumo.

Edited January 27, 2008 by HenryK

[Chisaiyama]

I for one agree that both have improved throughout the basho

but I have to believe that Hakuho has shown the most stability

and steadfastness throughout.

He was obviously training better than the keiko reports led us to

believe, he has to my knowledge not left a bout winded and

panting unlike his "rival".

Not to kick a dead horse but if Asa had sucked up and taken his

medicine as a rikishi of his stature should and continued to practice

at the heya while getting treatment at the hospital and relaxing

at home he would be in a far better position than on Senshuraku

than he appears to be in.

So another vote for Hakuho.

[HenryK]

Not to kick a dead horse but if Asa had sucked up and taken his

medicine as a rikishi of his stature should and continued to practice

at the heya while getting treatment at the hospital and relaxing

at home he would be in a far better position than on Senshuraku

than he appears to be in.

You're not kicking a dead horse, but you're making a statement that on my side gives rise to intense headshaking and eyerolling.

Asa has been off for half a year and gone through a severe depression. He was under tremendous pressure before the basho; there were (plentiful) people who were questioning whether he could make 10-5, and prepared their retirement commentary just in case.

Now Asa has fought near-flawless for 14 bouts and is at the verge of dominating the ozumo world all over again -- only a vastly improved Hakuho who has fought like a young god might stand in his way -- and there are really people complain about Asa's bad "position".

Frankly, reading this makes me wish that Asa wins tomorrow, although in principle I tend to support Hakuho for the senshukaru (better for ozumo if Asa needs at least one warm-up basho before he returns to his wkinning ways). What does Asa have to do to convince you guys? Fight three bashos with one arm and finish them all 20-0? Walk on water? Recite the Kojiki from memory in accent free Japanese?

(Clapping wildly...) :-S (Holiday feeling...)

Edited January 27, 2008 by HenryK

[Gernobono]

i go for asashoryu....

just for the simple reason that asashoryu lost the last bouts when it mattered to hakuho and i think now it is time to give something back.....i know that many here disagree, but that is my oppinion....

both yokozuna had their troubles this basho, but overall hakuho showed better sumo....

[Tony]

I hope that will be Hakuho. So, Hakuho.

[Kintamayama]

Asashouryuu, for all the reasons in the world, including the fact that I still think he is simply better than Hakuhou, when there is no nonsense (henka, prior KK, subtle camaraderie) involved. Hakuhou is an excellent rikishi as well, but he's still a few steps behind the master.

[aderechelsea]

i think i prefer Hakuho to win this but i kinda "see" it going the other way.

not very clear ... eh?

[sildan]

I think this is an important bout for the both of them. Obvious reasons for Asa. For Hakuho, he still has won only one yusho with Asa present and healthy, and that was the infamous henka. If Hakuho is ever going to be as good (or maybe even better), he needs to start beating Asa straight up, head-to-head. Now would be a good start, particularly since he had the early lead.

As for Asa's condition: he's had some close calls this basho that he certainly wouldn't have had under normal conditions (e.g. Mickey), and the first few days in particular were pretty sloppy. Safe to say he came in a bit rusty. As for convincing people, he doesn't have to. He might win his 22nd yusho today: everyone knows he's good, one of the best of all time. But that doesn't mean we have to like him.

[Peterao]

Not to kick a dead horse but if Asa had sucked up and taken his

medicine as a rikishi of his stature should and continued to practice

at the heya while getting treatment at the hospital and relaxing

at home he would be in a far better position than on Senshuraku

than he appears to be in.

(Holiday feeling...)

How could Asashoryu be in a better position than he is now? He has to beat Hakuho to win the yusho, which would be the case even if he were 14-0 now.

[messi19]

I think this is an important bout for the both of them. Obvious reasons for Asa. For Hakuho, he still has won only one yusho with Asa present and healthy, and that was the infamous henka. If Hakuho is ever going to be as good (or maybe even better), he needs to start beating Asa straight up, head-to-head.

You know this goes the other way around too. Since Hakuho became a real threat to win the yusho at the beginning of 2006 how many yusho has Asashoryu won with Hakuho present and healthy? Only two.

Haru 2006

Nagoya 2006

Aki 2006 - no (carrying injuries)

Kyushu 2006 - no (injured)

Hatsu 2007 - no (coming back from injury - IIRC only doing keiko with non-sekitori)

Nagoya 2007- no (as most previous Yokozuna including Asa struggling in their debut basho)

Hakuho is now just as much a candidate to win the yusho as is Asashoryu every basho. And he produced a magnificent performance today.

[aderechelsea]

5 yusho in the last 6 basho ... not too shabby for Hakuho

in general i am a happy sumo-fan from this tournament. More of this in the future please ....

(Holiday feeling...)

[Guest Chankoyama]

Great Basho. Great Hakuho! The End of Asa Era?

[ryafuji]

That was a classic bout. Well done to both yokozuna: excellent performances from the pair of them all the way through the basho. Two strong yokozuna is great for sumo.

[HenryK]

That was a classic bout. Well done to both yokozuna: excellent performances from the pair of them all the way through the basho. Two strong yokozuna is great for sumo.

Great bout indeed, but I feel 5 secs after the tachiai it was settled -- Asashoryu couldn't prevent Hakuho from getting his favorite grip, and from then on Asa was just hanging in there in a gutsy defensive effort that delayed the inevitable but couldn't prevent it, as Hakuho made no mistake.

Bravo Hakuho, bravo Asashoryu, bravo ozumo. We could be standing at the beginning of another great age.

[Chisaiyama]

HenryK: I was speaking of his physical position not his

record going into Senshuraku. I agree with

much that you have said and actually I am an

Asa fan and a Hakuho fan but mostly I am an

Ozumo fan.

As to the "end of the Asa era", not at all. Asashoryu is

has already been discussed in other threads a Dai Yokozuna.

Nothing can diminish that or should not even his antics in

'07. He will continue to win Yushos probably ultimately

elicpsing even Chiyonofuji and Taiho. The difference I believe

is that we have seen the last of his dominating the sport as he

did in 2004-2005. That was a matter of being in the right place

at the right time being the one dominant force in a game full of

aging ozekis and untried newcomers. Now one of those newcomers

has become tried and is beginning to prove himself. Indeed I think

we are on the edge of the Asa-Hakuho era and it's about time. The

so called Taka-Waka ere while great for generating recruits in sumo

wasn't really all that great in generating awe inspiring senshuraku

musubi no ichibans. We need at least 4-5 years of bashos like we

just witnessed and then the sad days of having a basho with 0 recruits

will be long behind us.

[Washuyama]

I actually picked Hakuho in TSG but wasn't too confident in the pick. I haven't felt the emotion/excitement for a single bout since the senshuraku bouts between Kitanoumi/Wajima back in the 70s. There's just something about the two best at their professions battling it out. I feel this is going to be a great rivalry for years to come, but with Hakuho being so young, it won't be too long before he widens the gap. That said, I think this loss will re-energize Asa and I predict he will take Haru with zensho.

[HenryK]

I actually picked Hakuho in TSG but wasn't too confident in the pick. I haven't felt the emotion/excitement for a single bout since the senshuraku bouts between Kitanoumi/Wajima back in the 70s.

Not even with the great Takanohana vs. Akebono duels?

For me this is what got me into ozumo.

[Washuyama]

I actually picked Hakuho in TSG but wasn't too confident in the pick. I haven't felt the emotion/excitement for a single bout since the senshuraku bouts between Kitanoumi/Wajima back in the 70s.

Not even with the great Takanohana vs. Akebono duels?

For me this is what got me into ozumo.

Unfortunately, I have about a 30 year gap in my sumo viewing... Left Japan in 1978, returned last year. I was unaware of the online sumo resources until just recently...