Best bout of the basho through day 14

[HenryK]

We all hope of course Hakuho vs. Asashoryu will be the glorious highlight of the basho, but what was the highlight to date?

For me Asashoryu vs. Kotomitsuki.

[aderechelsea]

Hakuho - Kotomitsuki

[HenryK]

For me Asashoryu vs. Kotomitsuki

Hakuho - Kotomitsuki

I guess this says something about Mickey. He had a difficult basho, but he is nonetheless the one Ozeki at this juncture who can be expected to regularly put up a stiff challenge against the Yokozunas. Even though he'll normally lose.

Edited January 26, 2008 by HenryK

[paolo]

1. Asashoryu vs Ama

2. Hakuho vs Kotomitsuki

3. Asashoryu vs Kotomitsuki

[HenryK]

1. Asashoryu vs Ama

2. Hakuho vs Kotomitsuki

3. Asashoryu vs Kotomitsuki

These are the three obvious choices. For me personally it's #3 because this one was truly competitive. Mickey was twice razor close to winning but Asa turned the tide in the very end with a spectacular shitatenage. In the two other fights the junior rikishi gave an impressive but mostly defensive performance before he succumbed to his superior opponent.

Toyonoshima's bouts with the Yokozunas were fine sumo, too. Pity that he didn't make KK.

Edited January 26, 2008 by HenryK

[messi19]

I'd nominate Toyonoshima-Hakuho and Toyonoshima-Asashoryu.

The Yokozuna have been in a totally different class (I guess they're supposed to be!), but their bouts with Toyonoshima were very close decisions in each case and everyone was just holding their breath totally.

Ama-Asashoryu was a good one too, but despite the great resistance by Ama there at the edge on Asashoryu's initial yorikiri attempt it was pretty clear at least to me that Asashoryu was going to win as soon as the bout turned into a yotsu contest. But Toyonoshima came *so* close to beating Asashoryu and almost as close in his bout against Hakuho..

Edited January 26, 2008 by messi19

[kaiguma]

Tochinoshin v Hoshihikari

non-sequitor I know, but...

[HenryK]

Tochinoshin v Hoshihikari

non-sequitor I know, but...

Nice tight and technical battle, with Hoshihikari hanging in there...hanging in there...hanging in there...hanging in there...trying a fine counterattack... but not quite succeeding with it.

But the same quality of sumo.....?

Edited January 27, 2008 by HenryK

[kaiguma]

Tochinoshin v Hoshihikari

non-sequitor I know, but...

Nice tight and technical battle, with Hoshihikari hanging in there...hanging in there...hanging in there...hanging in there...trying a fine counterattack... but not quite succeeding with it.

But the same quality of sumo.....?

Yes, they were both at 100% on all fronts, very close to evenly matched, performance at nearly full potential from each opponent resulting in a riveting bout that displayed very well the fascinating future we might see from each of them. Sumo quality was just as good. (Holiday feeling...)

[Vikanohara]

I'd nominate Toyonoshima-Hakuho and Toyonoshima-Asashoryu.

I second this.

[kaiguma]

Sumo quality was just as good.

I couldn't disagree more. If you like this sort of thing you'd be better off watching freestyle wrestling. Hoshihikari letting himself be pushed this way and that just waiting for the pulldown. Worst bout of the basho I saw and I'm deadly serious about that.

Oh couldn't be worse than 3 awful henkas by your "boy", could it? (Neener, neener...)

[Otokonoyama]

I know Hoshihikari is small but his sumo reminds me of a dead terrier in bear-baiting whose teeth are clamped down. He is always glued to his opponents and just allows himself to be pushed and thrown about this way and that. His light weight and good balance added to hanging on to the mawashi helps him keep his feet but he never really moves forward to takes the initiative. His sumo is all about waiting for the chance to dashinage or trip.

The reasons you dislike him are the reasons I find his sumo very interesting to watch. He reminds me of a small, but tough streetfighter who makes his living by being patient, a good observer, fluid, and ready to exploit opponents' mistakes. He doesn't overwhelm you with raw power, but he has the smarts and the skill to put you down if you make a misstep.

[Washuyama]

I know Hoshihikari is small but his sumo reminds me of a dead terrier in bear-baiting whose teeth are clamped down. He is always glued to his opponents and just allows himself to be pushed and thrown about this way and that. His light weight and good balance added to hanging on to the mawashi helps him keep his feet but he never really moves forward to takes the initiative. His sumo is all about waiting for the chance to dashinage or trip.

The reasons you dislike him are the reasons I find his sumo very interesting to watch. He reminds me of a small, but tough streetfighter who makes his living by being patient, a good observer, fluid, and ready to exploit opponents' mistakes. He doesn't overwhelm you with raw power, but he has the smarts and the skill to put you down if you make a misstep.

It sounds alot like Asahikuni (current Oshima Oyakata). He made all the way to Ozeki and earned him the nickname "PhD of Sumo" due to the variety of techniques he used.

I only added my 2 cents because I know how much Nishi loves hearing about the 70s... (Sign of disapproval...)

Edited January 29, 2008 by Washuyama

[Bealzbob]

info-sumo.net is down for me at the mo' (Whatever above, it is funny...)

[Otokonoyama]

being patient, a good observer, fluid, and ready to exploit opponents' mistakes. He doesn't overwhelm you with raw power, but he has the smarts and the skill to put you down if you make a misstep.

A description which if you read out of context would make you guess he was a wrestler and would never bring sumo to mind.

Anyway I don't think it matters so much as that kind of style won't get him beyond occasional forays into low makuuchi at best.

IMO it describes a good fighter, irrespective of what art/sport he studies or competes in. I don't think those attributes are exclusive to any single discipline. Naturally, the rules of sumo or any other combat sport will determine the viable techniques used in a match, but the basic physical and mental skills described apply to all.

[kaiguma]

being patient, a good observer, fluid, and ready to exploit opponents' mistakes. He doesn't overwhelm you with raw power, but he has the smarts and the skill to put you down if you make a misstep.

A description which if you read out of context would make you guess he was a wrestler and would never bring sumo to mind.

Anyway I don't think it matters so much as that kind of style won't get him beyond occasional forays into low makuuchi at best.

Kakuryu struck me as much much worse in his first few or 6 basho in makuuchi. He nearly always won by dancing around the edge of the ring or backpedaling. He came out thrusting for a few seconds and then always retreated into backwards circular motions. Talk about offputting. He so rarely had a win that made me feel he 'deserved it' in the sense of good Sumo. As a result I always said, "sheesh he'll nver make it past the meatgrinder." Suddenly I am very surprised. I'm not saying he'll do it right away, but during this basho, I see he has found a new source of power and understands moving forward. I imagine he will eventually make it to komusubi several times which means he may eventually make it to sekiwake. If he can do that, then the sky's the limit and it all depends on the balance of his mental/physical advancement. Fay may eventually be leading a Wagon Train, who knows?

Relation to Hoshihikari: I do believe you will be surprised. How and when? Dunno, but I do believe you will be surprised. Maybe when he is suddenly doing more than just "hanging on like a dead terrier" in lower Makuuchi. Meatgrinder elevator, probably? Joi mainstay, why not? Time will tell.

"Moving Forward" is obviously one of the most important motion-concepts of Sumo. I can't deny that. But so is an intense awareness of your center of gravity, and the relationship to your opponent's. What would we call it, "Centeredness" ? Centeredness uniquely encompasses the body mind and spirit aspects, as well as instinctive Ring Sense and physical empathy. A lot of these guys look to be embodying Ozumo on the face of things, with a purely Moving Forward from of sumo, but when they lack Centeredness they look like utter fools. So when Mr. Forward Hokutoriki is having a bad basho he somehow only moves sideways and backward.

Once the determined Little Man Hoshihikari learns the secret of Moving Forward with pure internal power, he will be a force to be reckoned with. you can mark those words. For when you want to make a fool of me later...

[kaiguma]

Relation to Hoshihikari: I do believe you will be surprised.

Well I think I was one of the first to write about him here after a keiko session before aki 2006 where he was easily beating sekitori. I've always known he was good. Kakuryu was awful but he is younger and bigger and still learning, so it's not entirely shocking that he is doing well. Remains to be seen though if this basho was a flash in the pan or the start of something better. Hoshikari though is just too small. He reminds me of Satoyama in that sense.

Satoyama was obviously too small for his style to work in Makuuchi. He had a good debut from the adrenaline rush and then crashed and burned straight out of juryo. I had hopes he could hack it a bit longer, and who knows, maybe he'll be back?

But the problem with his style is he goes at it like he's Homasho. Head to head, shoulder to shoulder in that odd greco-stance trying to keep the opponent off the belt. That doesn't even work for Homasho anymore, or maybe he's struggling now trying to kick the habit. Regardless, Satoyama's size can never support this type of sumo as he advances.

Hoshihikari OTOH, has matched his style perfectly to his size. So as he gains a leetle weight to help in grounding, you may see him moving forward more and more, even if he looks like a leech or some bizarre hitsugi-mushi. (I am going off-topic...)

[Kintamayama]

A few more facts that seemingly have not "counted" in the various above assessments:

Kakuryuu was ranked low, even for his latest bashos. For the last 5 bashos, anywhere near 8 is worth 9 wins and upwards. The meatgrinder has built him up, buttercup. So maybe the 11 wins are a nice surprise, but his doing well isn't. As for Satoyama, Houmashou and the unexplained "crashers". My theory is always a secret injury. I'm not talking about the natural- course- of- life setting of the Tosanoumi/Tochinonada/pick a veteran sun. I'm betting the farm Mash is injured, as was Satoyama. Going down south in the Banzuke, YMY's 1-6 that caused many to "bury" him: He lost by isamiashi first. It could be that this loss brought about intense wrath from his Oyakata, so intense it broke his spirit. Then he comes back with a yusho. I always take into consideration that as much as we are all in the know and toal sumo geniuses, there is a lot of stuff going on we actually don't know about, and I feel it is a much greater factor percentage -wise than we care to acknowledge. Maybe most of our psychological digging here is actually simply a hushed -up injury or some mental thingy that will go away after a good blow-job rest.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Kintamayama

[aderechelsea]

Relation to Hoshihikari: I do believe you will be surprised.

Well I think I was one of the first to write about him here after a keiko session before aki 2006 where he was easily beating sekitori. I've always known he was good. ..... Hoshikari though is just too small. He reminds me of Satoyama in that sense.

but I was the first (Sign of approval...)

ooooooook .... i am going into "mature mode" in a moment.