Soken- January 8th

[Erkhembulgan]

I may be lambasted for this, but I think Ms. Uchidate should resign right now. If she can't get past the fact that Asa is indeed still participating, and can't even consider him an active rikishi, perhaps she should not be commenting at all. The YDC is there to comment on the current yokozuna(s) and if she can't do that properly, she isn't doing her job. This is beyond constructive criticism. This is personal, vindictive, and petty.

+1,

She has personal, vindictive mission on Asa quite long time. Ignoring one of Yokozuna is not for Sumo as she claims to be, but for her own personal issue. I am wondering what is the issue between her and Asa

An issue?....Asa ignored her flirting a while ago.

(In a state of confusion...)

[Asafan]

In the name of the french forum , I 'd like to thank very very much Moti for all his posts.

Tony , Asafan , myself & others translate each of them in french for the greatest pleasure of our readers.

All the pre-basho news , keiko reports , pics etc... are really appreciated. (In a state of confusion...)

Yes, I agree. Thanks a lot, Moti. (Neener, neener...)

[Shomishuu]

I may be lambasted for this, but I think Ms. Uchidate should resign right now. If she can't get past the fact that Asa is indeed still participating, and can't even consider him an active rikishi, perhaps she should not be commenting at all. The YDC is there to comment on the current yokozuna(s) and if she can't do that properly, she isn't doing her job. This is beyond constructive criticism. This is personal, vindictive, and petty.

+1,

She has personal, vindictive mission on Asa quite long time. Ignoring one of Yokozuna is not for Sumo as she claims to be, but for her own personal issue. I am wondering what is the issue between her and Asa

An issue?....Asa ignored her flirting a while ago.

(In a state of confusion...)

I'm trying to picture Uchidate flirting..........it's not working! (Neener, neener...)

[Coo-cook]

I may be lambasted for this, but I think Ms. Uchidate should resign right now. If she can't get past the fact that Asa is indeed still participating, and can't even consider him an active rikishi, perhaps she should not be commenting at all. The YDC is there to comment on the current yokozuna(s) and if she can't do that properly, she isn't doing her job. This is beyond constructive criticism. This is personal, vindictive, and petty.

+1,

She has personal, vindictive mission on Asa quite long time. Ignoring one of Yokozuna is not for Sumo as she claims to be, but for her own personal issue. I am wondering what is the issue between her and Asa

An issue?....Asa ignored her flirting a while ago.

(Sign of approval...)

I'm trying to picture Uchidate flirting..........it's not working! (Blinking...)

Try more. Maybe you are not fantasizing enough.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Coo-cook

[kaiguma]

An issue?....Asa ignored her flirting a while ago.

(Sign of approval...)

I'm trying to picture Uchidate flirting..........it's not working! (Blinking...)

Try more. Maybe you are not fantasizing enough.

Try drinking and look at the picture again. After 5 quick shots of whiskey, Yoda may start to resemble Leia.

GAME: Where's Uchidate?

Edited January 9, 2008 by kaiguma

[Ruziklao]

Hm... quite a few recent posts here have diverged from the original subject... soken. (Sign of approval...)

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Hm... quite a few recent posts here have diverged from the original subject... soken. (Sign of approval...)

Recent posts are not diverged at all from the original topic. You know by now, Ms Uchidate is really representing Japanese Sumo. or Ms Uchidate using Sumo and Sumo scandals/ Asashoryu incident for her own personal gain to be in the center of attention. Looks like she enjoy it

Ms Uchidate and Sumo or Asashoryu . Now , It is all almost same subject to bypassers.

When someone sees this Soken video on youtube, anybody would wonder who is tis woman in center of the camera many times. Even Kitanoumi was unnoticeable in this video. If this woman stays on long enough in center of media attention, using her personal/ illogical problem with Asa, Sumo would have some real "public image" problem.

btw:- Why Ms Uchidate? why not Mrs Uchidate. Is she still virgin or what (Blinking...) ?

Edited January 10, 2008 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Kintamayama]

btw:- Why Ms Uchidate? why not Mrs Uchidate. Is she still virgin or what (Sign of approval...) ?

Remaining on topic, Ms. is the correct way to denote an unmarried independant woman, regardless of if she has a hi-man or a hymen.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

btw:- Why Ms Uchidate? why not Mrs Uchidate. Is she still virgin or what (Sign of approval...) ?

Remaining on topic, Ms. is the correct way to denote an unmarried independant woman, regardless of if she has a hi-man or a hymen.

Thank you

Now I see, so Ms Uchidate is unmarried girl who is waiting for her perfect match. Unfortunately Mr Asa is already married and have children who did not see their father because of likes of Ms Uchidate during the New Year.

I think Ms Uchidate should be addressed as Dr. Uchidate or something like that, if she has some academic or job title. Everytime when I read ther name, that "Ms" confuses me, because I do imagine a "MISS" like Miss World, Miss America. Sumo wrestlers deserve real Miss Sumo than Ms. Uchidate

Edited January 10, 2008 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[kaiguma]

When someone sees this Soken video on youtube, anybody would wonder who is tis woman in center of the camera many times. Even Kitanoumi was unnoticeable in this video. If this woman stays on long enough in center of media attention, using her personal/ illogical problem with Asa, Sumo would have some real "public image" problem.

You seem to have missed a really important point. This Soken is called YDC Soken. Uchidate Sama is a central figure of the YDC and Kitanoumi is not. The difference between NSK and YDC has been spelled out ad nauseum since the beginning of Asa's scandal, but some people have apparently missed the boat despite being very vocal in the arguments surrounding the scandal and the aftermath.

Don't get me wrong, I think she has gone over the top with her comments, particularly if she still refers to Asa as "already retired" in her book. Respect is a 2-way street and the comments are certainly disrespectful.

But I can look beyond that, and some people are just flapping their gums when they say she has a personal agenda, just looking for limelight etc. It's entirely possible that she is very conservative and sincerely believes that Asashoryu has damaged the reputation of Ozumo and soiled the rank of yokozuna, and as such should have retired. Might be too harsh for my liking, but she certainly holds a position which entitles her to a strong and vocal opinion if she feels it is warranted.

On the other hand, she has been duly described as a 1st class Nag. Maybe that's all this is. She will continue to ride him Shikorayama Oyakata rode Homasho into the ground, all in the spirit of making him stronger through struggle. I actually think this is the case. Once she is satisfied by Asa's performance coming very soon, all of these hyperbolic comments will cease very suddenly. Will you really be surprised when this woman praises Asashoryu for his next strong yusho? Rare as it may seem, she will do that again, perhaps sooner than later.

Edited January 10, 2008 by kaiguma

[Sashohitowa]

I have a feeling that here in the forum has formed up some kind of trend, some kind of fashion to offend and insult Uchidate on whatever occasion she comes into the (so kindly reported by Kintamayama - thank you!) news.

Now I would not try to repeat again what some forum members with more clear vision on the subject than me has tried to explain here - I just want to show my respect and support for her. That woman has done for the sumo development much more than anyone of us here can bring down to the mud. And the fact that she is kept into this position - to speak loudly and freely, no matter if what she says is not to the taste of everyone - means only one thing: that her opinion matters for the insiders.

And instead of trying to see what drives her to talk this way for Asashoryu (and not for Hakuho, for example), here we are discussing her resignation?? Come on, guys - if you tend to classify such behavior as bad and disgraceful, by the same measures Asashoryu should have at least 10 times hit the road so far...

And even we are going into absurd discussions like that she is still single because she is actually dreaming to marry Asashoryu??? :-)

Come on, people, if not staying on topic, let's at least be serious - shall we?

[ilovesumo]

But I can look beyond that, and some people are just flapping their gums when they say she has a personal agenda, just looking for limelight etc. It's entirely possible that she is very conservative and sincerely believes that Asashoryu has damaged the reputation of Ozumo and soiled the rank of yokozuna, and as such should have retired. Might be too harsh for my liking, but she certainly holds a position which entitles her to a strong and vocal opinion if she feels it is warranted.

On the other hand, she has been duly described as a 1st class Nag. Maybe that's all this is. She will continue to ride him Shikorayama Oyakata rode Homasho into the ground, all in the spirit of making him stronger through struggle. I actually think this is the case. Once she is satisfied by Asa's performance coming very soon, all of these hyperbolic comments will cease very suddenly. Will you really be surprised when this woman praises Asashoryu for his next strong yusho? Rare as it may seem, she will do that again, perhaps sooner than later.

She speaks out what many think. And in her position she is the one being allowed to do so.

Might be over the top (that's japan) but she is the only one allowed to be harsh, so she is. Bowing her head, saying nothing about anything- no need for an other sheep saying nothing but "m

[Asashosakari]

And instead of trying to see what drives her to talk this way for Asashoryu (and not for Hakuho, for example), here we are discussing her resignation?? Come on, guys - if you tend to classify such behavior as bad and disgraceful, by the same measures Asashoryu should have at least 10 times hit the road so far...

And even we are going into absurd discussions like that she is still single because she is actually dreaming to marry Asashoryu??? :-)

Nobody would mistake me for a feminist, but even I find it hard to overlook the interesting mix of immaturity and misogyny on display by some of the more hardcore Uchidate haters. It must be tough for some people to see their precious hero criticized by a woman...

Of course, as usual in these threads I can't muster much sympathy for Uchidate's viewpoint either. It's just the equally exaggerated counterpoint to the "Asashoryu can do nothing wrong" crowd. Seriously, the "Asashoryu is already retired for me" thing stopped being cute about two months ago, no matter how sincere she may be feeling about it.

[Gusoyama]

Perhaps I was pushing it a bit, calling for her resignation, but I think she's gone past the point of constructive criticism. Like kaiguma said, respect is a two way street.

[HenryK]

I have a feeling that here in the forum has formed up some kind of trend, some kind of fashion to offend and insult Uchidate on whatever occasion she comes into the (so kindly reported by Kintamayama - thank you!) news.

Well, she gladly provides opportunity over opportunity with her inacceptable commments -- doesn't she?

Now I would not try to repeat again what some forum members with more clear vision on the subject than me has tried to explain here - I just want to show my respect and support for her. That woman has done for the sumo development much more than anyone of us here can bring down to the mud.

I would be grateful if you could explain in a bit more detail what this "much more" ecactly is. Given how ozumo has developed in recent years, her efforts cannot have been terribly succesful.

There is no doubt in my mind though that her recent and current actions are deterimental for sumo. Asashoryu has done little wrong since coming back to Japan. Her non-stop rants just reconfirm the impression of an irrationale witchhunt against foreign rikishi.

[HenryK]

Perhaps I was pushing it a bit, calling for her resignation, but I think she's gone past the point of constructive criticism. Like kaiguma said, respect is a two way street.

I don't think you've ben pushing it. Her resignation is over-over-overdue. Add another over.

Edited January 10, 2008 by HenryK

[Shomishuu]

Don't get me wrong, I think she has gone over the top with her comments, particularly if she still refers to Asa as "already retired" in her book. Respect is a 2-way street and the comments are certainly disrespectful.

But I can look beyond that, and some people are just flapping their gums when they say she has a personal agenda, just looking for limelight etc. It's entirely possible that she is very conservative and sincerely believes that Asashoryu has damaged the reputation of Ozumo and soiled the rank of yokozuna, and as such should have retired. Might be too harsh for my liking, but she certainly holds a position which entitles her to a strong and vocal opinion if she feels it is warranted.

Absolutely! She has every right to criticize Asashoryu or any other yokozuna...that's her job description, after all. And maybe she doesn't have a personal agenda with him, but when she begins playing third-grade schoolyard games - referring to Asashoryu as "Hakuho's opponent," etc., it certainly makes it look as if she might. She needs to do something to regain her own credibility.

[philafuji]

Don't get me wrong, I think she has gone over the top with her comments, particularly if she still refers to Asa as "already retired" in her book. Respect is a 2-way street and the comments are certainly disrespectful.

But I can look beyond that, and some people are just flapping their gums when they say she has a personal agenda, just looking for limelight etc. It's entirely possible that she is very conservative and sincerely believes that Asashoryu has damaged the reputation of Ozumo and soiled the rank of yokozuna, and as such should have retired. Might be too harsh for my liking, but she certainly holds a position which entitles her to a strong and vocal opinion if she feels it is warranted.

Absolutely! She has every right to criticize Asashoryu or any other yokozuna...that's her job description, after all. And maybe she doesn't have a personal agenda with him, but when she begins playing third-grade schoolyard games - referring to Asashoryu as "Hakuho's opponent," etc., it certainly makes it look as if she might. She needs to do something to regain her own credibility.

The best thing she could do for sumo is to retire and get on with what ever other life she has.

[kaiguma]

Now I would not try to repeat again what some forum members with more clear vision on the subject than me has tried to explain here - I just want to show my respect and support for her. That woman has done for the sumo development much more than anyone of us here can bring down to the mud.

I would be grateful if you could explain in a bit more detail what this "much more" ecactly is. Given how ozumo has developed in recent years, her efforts cannot have been terribly succesful.

There is no doubt in my mind though that her recent and current actions are deterimental for sumo. Asashoryu has done little wrong since coming back to Japan. Her non-stop rants just reconfirm the impression of an irrationale witchhunt against foreign rikishi.

I'm no expert on this, but I gather she has done an awful lot for collegiate sumo over the years. While general recruitment may be on the declining cycle, College Sumo recruitment seems to be stable or even on the rise. By that I mean both participation at college level, and a steady stream of college grads joining Ozumo.

I hope someone else can offer more detail.

As far as witch hunt angle . . . it's been played to death and clearly debunked by people who know what they are talking about. I wish I could find a way to kill that myth once and for all. Gaijin will always be differentiated in Japan, they are different, but they are rarely treated differently in Ozumo and there is no witch hunt, end of story.

[Sasanishiki]

Ms Uchidate has not done a lot for college sumo in general. That is, I don't believe she has contributed to the Nihon Sumo Renmei (Japan Sumo Federation) or the Gakusei Sumo Renmei (College Sumo Federation). Instead, she has been involved with the sumo club at Tohoku University, where she has been doing postgraduate study. Petr will be able to say more, or has said so in old posts, but as far as I know she has been instrumental in supporting and helping to organise the university's club. They have had some moderate success in lower divisions, after being also-rans for a while.

[Shomishuu]

There is no doubt in my mind though that her recent and current actions are deterimental for sumo. Asashoryu has done little wrong since coming back to Japan. Her non-stop rants just reconfirm the impression of an irrationale witchhunt against foreign rikishi.

As far as witch hunt angle . . . it's been played to death and clearly debunked by people who know what they are talking about. I wish I could find a way to kill that myth once and for all. Gaijin will always be differentiated in Japan, they are different, but they are rarely treated differently in Ozumo and there is no witch hunt, end of story.

Uchidate could actually be on a witch hunt...I didn't think she was but her recent irrational comments do call this into question. She is the only one who could say for sure, but even if her agenda could be characterized as one, it has nothing to do with Asashoryu's 'foreignness.' It has everything to do with his actions as a yokozuna.

[HenryK]

There is no doubt in my mind though that her recent and current actions are deterimental for sumo. Asashoryu has done little wrong since coming back to Japan. Her non-stop rants just reconfirm the impression of an irrationale witchhunt against foreign rikishi.

As far as witch hunt angle . . . it's been played to death and clearly debunked by people who know what they are talking about. I wish I could find a way to kill that myth once and for all. Gaijin will always be differentiated in Japan, they are different, but they are rarely treated differently in Ozumo and there is no witch hunt, end of story.

Uchidate could actually be on a witch hunt...I didn't think she was but her recent irrational comments do call this into question. She is the only one who could say for sure, but even if her agenda could be characterized as one, it has nothing to do with Asashoryu's 'foreignness.' It has everything to do with his actions as a yokozuna.

Well who knows what it has ultimately to do with -- I personally find most complaints about Asashoryu's behavior rather petty. I referred though to the impression this creates.

Edited January 11, 2008 by HenryK

[Sashohitowa]

HenryK,

My view is that her job in the YDC is to provide analysis and comments for the active yokozunas. And, again in my view, there is nothing wrong with any action, if in the end it leads to a motivated and strong performance, combined with immaculate behavior off the dohyo.

I, personally, believe that Asashoryu did much harm when he acted like a small child with hurt feelings, and when he ran crying home, making fools out of the people who gave him his punishment, but, above all making fun of himself as an active Yokozuna. And maybe he didn't do much bad since he came back, but, IMO, he didn't do much good either. So therefore I fully support Uchiadte in her attempts to "push him hard" - only then we can see how man is he indeed.

But, anyway, the basho is near - we will see it soon...

[philafuji]

HenryK,

My view is that her job in the YDC is to provide analysis and comments for the active yokozunas. And, again in my view, there is nothing wrong with any action, if in the end it leads to a motivated and strong performance, combined with immaculate behavior off the dohyo.

I, personally, believe that Asashoryu did much harm when he acted like a small child with hurt feelings, and when he ran crying home, making fools out of the people who gave him his punishment, but, above all making fun of himself as an active Yokozuna. And maybe he didn't do much bad since he came back, but, IMO, he didn't do much good either. So therefore I fully support Uchiadte in her attempts to "push him hard" - only then we can see how man is he indeed.

But, anyway, the basho is near - we will see it soon...

The problem is that she doesn't even recognize him as a Yokozuna or even still active in sumo. This is accordig to some of the posts on the SF.

Asashoryu went over board in his actions and has paid for what he has done.

She has gone much further overboard with her actions against him.

It is now her turn to apologize over and over and over again for her actions. She should be relieved of all duties having to do with sumo. Maybe she needs to go to Mongolia and sit in the hot baths for 90 days and not allowed out of the bath until she looks like the prune she is as far as sumo goes. Just my 2 cents. With inflation it is now down to one cent.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

HenryK,

My view is that her job in the YDC is to provide analysis and comments for the active yokozunas. And, again in my view, there is nothing wrong with any action, if in the end it leads to a motivated and strong performance, combined with immaculate behavior off the dohyo.

I, personally, believe that Asashoryu did much harm when he acted like a small child with hurt feelings, and when he ran crying home, making fools out of the people who gave him his punishment, but, above all making fun of himself as an active Yokozuna. And maybe he didn't do much bad since he came back, but, IMO, he didn't do much good either. So therefore I fully support Uchiadte in her attempts to "push him hard" - only then we can see how man is he indeed.

But, anyway, the basho is near - we will see it soon...

NO man, "Ms" Uchidate is not "pushing him hard" like anybody who cares about sumo. Her comment made her look like blinded enough by her hatred of Asa. As blinded, she even does nots see that there are 2 active Yokozuna in Sumo. It is almost insult to Sumo itself.

Maybe She has done an "awful lot for collegiate sumo". I think she should be hanging around in collegiate sumo, not around Asashoryu who has done lot more for sumo. As you all know well, thanks to Asashoryu ( to Mongolians in general) Sumo is no longer only for FATMEN which is image created by some. Stereotype of sumo "bigger is better" is broken by speedy techniques of some Mongolian wrestlers. Now even some Japanese wrestlers (like Goeido) are becaming like Asashoryu in its wrestling style.

Introducing one little technique, one more speedy way of winning to Sumo is much better contribution than scolding "jaw" contribution of "Ms" Uchidate

Edited January 11, 2008 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj