Hananotaka Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 Well, it literally translates as "change" as in a "change-up" in baseball. In the context of tachi-ai, this "change" would denote a change from what is expected. Since this is a social expectation, I would liken the unexpected move as a "trick" or a "fake," as in "to fake out." So it's a lot like a matta, only to gain physical advantage rather than a psychological one. Fake or fake out is the closest translation I can come up with. I disagree. In Japanese, henka 変化 is used interchangeably with "kawaru" 変わる. It's actually describing the movement to the side. (A 変化球 in baseball, incidently, is what we call in English "a breaking pitch"; i.e., a pitch that moves significantly off a straight line.) It's in this sense that it's used in sumo. The rikishi are lined up against each other, for a tachiai. In theory, they should move at a straight line right each other (hence the "ai" of "tachiai"). When a rikishi moves off this line, it's a henka. In fact, I would say that while in English the idea of "henka = fake, dodge" seems pretty strong, in Japanese such connotations are merely implicated. The main idea in Japanese is moving off the line. You're certainly right that it's rarely used after the tachiai. Mainly, I believe, because rarely do you have the rikishi lined up in such a manner to suggest moving laterally off a straight line. More often than not, you have an inashi. It's hard to explain without pictures. Basically, if you have a line extending out from a rikishi's belly button, that's the line of attack. Henka would be lateral movement to either side. An inashi, on the other hand, involves a kind of "opening up" of the body, a change in the angle of attack. I don't know if this will help, but think of "henka" as an automatic sliding door, and "inashi" as a push-door with a hinge.
kaiguma Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 Well, it literally translates as "change" as in a "change-up" in baseball. In the context of tachi-ai, this "change" would denote a change from what is expected. Since this is a social expectation, I would liken the unexpected move as a "trick" or a "fake," as in "to fake out." So it's a lot like a matta, only to gain physical advantage rather than a psychological one. Fake or fake out is the closest translation I can come up with. I disagree. In Japanese, henka 変化 is used interchangeably with "kawaru" 変わる. It's actually describing the movement to the side. (A 変化球 in baseball, incidently, is what we call in English "a breaking pitch"; i.e., a pitch that moves significantly off a straight line.) I see where you disagree, but also please don't assume I was likening the henka movement to the ball movement in a change-up pitch. That would be more like head-on tachi-ai with a sudden backpedal and pull down. (Serious forward momentum followed by a sudden absence of any momentum at all) Incidentally, A 変化球 in baseball is what we call in English "a change-up"; i.e., a pitch with a significant change in speed. This almost literally translates to henkafied ball! And the point of a change-up is to look like the pitch is fast when the ball is actually moving slowly, which fools, fakes or tricks the batter into swinging early because of an unexpected slow movement. I'm getting this from wwwjdic. In fact, wwwjdic even defines 変わる as: "to change; to be transformed; to vary; to be revised; to be different; to move location." Only the last part of the definition can be used to describe a movement to the side. What's your reference for using 変化球 to describe a "breaking pitch" ? Maybe it was actually "braking" pitch :-D All ribbing aside, do commentators ever exclaim "kawaru" or whatever conjugation would be appropriate? (in place of "henka") Henka itself may contain the same first kanji as kawaru, but this only means they share the root "change". Hence kawaru means to change direction. Henka's basic meanings do not imply sideways movement, but change, alteration, irregularity, variation, and even error (though this is the least removed from the original "henka"). I would argue that if they were just describing lateral motion, commentators would be using kawaru rather than henka, because it is more precise. And they wouldn't sound so surprised when it happens! Emphasis is on unexpected movement to the side. Many words are "interchangeable" without supplying context, but more concrete when we use them within a scenario. Henka is a complex word, and I believe it is commonly used in Sumo to denote both a change in direction and a change of expectations. So it is both a "sidestep" and a "fake-out."
Mark Buckton Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 *Speaking of Mark Buckton and the henka, I felt quite henka'd following "National Apology Day", when he seemed to imply that he had a confession he needed to get off of his chest. Superb henka! :-D Don't mind me Mark (Sign of approval...) no implication along those lines at all. Asashoryu was the subject of that thread and he needed to 'fess up (I think that is what I said or words along those lines). I don't believe Asa has shown sincerity in his apology / return yet but that is my own personal view - albeit one that will appear in a Japanese magazine just ahead of the January Hatsu Basho. (I will close this post by asking that any reference made to Asa in my response above be left at that and any responses be directed at the appropriate thread - this being a henka thread and not an Asa thread)
Bealzbob Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 I think there's a wide-spread habit of only calling it a henka (or at least, to bother mentioning it in any discussions) if the bout is in fact over in .5 seconds with a win for the henka'er. Losses after botched henka seem to get much less attention, as do wins after henka when it takes a bit of time, e.g. henka allowing one guy to get into a very favourable position, but the bout isn't over until they've chased each other through the dohyo for ten seconds ending up in okuridashi or something.The SFM henka voting doesn't suffer much from that perception problem (I think), but general conversations definitely do, IMO. 100% agree with all of that.
Hananotaka Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 Incidentally, A 変化球 in baseball is what we call in English "a change-up"; i.e., a pitch with a significant change in speed. This almost literally translates to henkafied ball! And the point of a change-up is to look like the pitch is fast when the ball is actually moving slowly, which fools, fakes or tricks the batter into swinging early because of an unexpected slow movement. I'm getting this from wwwjdic. In fact, wwwjdic even defines 変わる as: "to change; to be transformed; to vary; to be revised; to be different; to move location." Only the last part of the definition can be used to describe a movement to the side. What's your reference for using 変化球 to describe a "breaking pitch" ? Maybe it was actually "braking" pitch :-) I'm 100% sure on this. My reference is all the baseball broadcasts I've watched in Japan. A change-up in Japanese is literally チェンジアップ. It is, indeed, a type of 変化球, but in Japanese a 変化球 is any ball that doesn't follow a fairly straight line. If you need references, there's this: Wikipedia - Notice the definitions of カーブ、カットファストボール、シュート、シンカー、スクリューバール、スプリットフィンガーファストボール、スライダー、スラーブ、チェンジアップ、ナックルボール、and パームボール are all identified as types of 変化球. Look at the entry for the ムーヴィングファストボール and note how it says 小さく変化する, and further clarify it as 横変化 - movement to the side. Note the entry for シンキングファストボール talks about the ball's 縦変化 - vertical movement. If you're not sure about Wikipedia, check out these: Eijiro Daijirin Dictionary All ribbing aside, do commentators ever exclaim "kawaru" or whatever conjugation would be appropriate? (in place of "henka") Yes, all the time. That's why I said it was used interchangeably with "henka". I didn't write that out as clearly as I should have. I would argue that if they were just describing lateral motion, commentators would be using kawaru rather than henka, because it is more precise. They do use "kawaru", very frequently, and no, it's not more precise. They're synonyms - "henka" being a Chinese loanword just sounds a little more refined/educated/announcer-like. And they wouldn't sound so surprised when it happens! What word they use has nothing to do with if they're surprised or not. I've heard "Henka!!!" and I've heard "Kawarimashita!!!" and even "Kawatta!!!" They sound surprised because they are surprised, no matter what word they use.
paolo Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 ......As for an earlier comment, paolo claims he seldom sees a henka result in a loss for the hanka-er . . . . are you serious?! I've seen Roho and Hakurozan screw up so many henka it's not even funny. Really, it's not funny at all, just sad. I would guess Roho's success rate at henka is less than 50% but he doesn't do them all that much. Hakurozan's success rate is probably more like 70% and so we see him try time and time again. ...... I am missing your point (or you are missing mine....). Your reasoning apparently shows that I am "serious": if Roho and Hakurozan screw up so many henka, and yet even Roho has got a 50% of success (Hakurozan even 70%!), this apparently means that in general the success percentage is much bigger than that. Therefore henka generally succeeds, which is my suspicion ! More or less the same concept is expressed in the other post that follows: Furthermore, are there are any statistics that show how many times a henka wins and how many times it loses ? Because if the man who performs the henka is pretty sure that doing so he is going to win, the number of henka's will inevitably get bigger. I read that somebody judges a henka a risk, but on the other hand I have seen very seldom the henka performer lose the bout.... and that is very bad ! Are there any numbers ? Thanks Check out Sumo Fan Magazine's Henka Database and follow the link to the basho summary, invented and maintained by Shomishuu. There you can even download the complete henka database indicating the most frequent henka users, the most frequent victims, and the rate of wins taken by rikishi who were doing a henka according to public vote - the winning percentage is around 70% - which is quite a factor.
paolo Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 ...I think there's a wide-spread habit of only calling it a henka (or at least, to bother mentioning it in any discussions) if the bout is in fact over in .5 seconds with a win for the henka'er. Losses after botched henka seem to get much less attention, as do wins after henka when it takes a bit of time, e.g. henka allowing one guy to get into a very favourable position, but the bout isn't over until they've chased each other through the dohyo for ten seconds ending up in okuridashi or something. The SFM henka voting doesn't suffer much from that perception problem (I think), but general conversations definitely do, IMO. Agreed. I think that in THIS discussion the general idea should be: a henka is when one moves backwards or aside at the very start avoiding the tachiai - a win by henka is when he wins immediately by a direct hatakikomi or direct hikiotoshi or direct okuridashi or he obtains a better position directly dependent on the henka. What do you think ? Thanks
kaiguma Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 I am missing your point (or you are missing mine....). Your reasoning apparently shows that I am "serious": if Roho and Hakurozan screw up so many henka, and yet even Roho has got a 50% of success (Hakurozan even 70%!), this apparently means that in general the success percentage is much bigger than that. Therefore henka generally succeeds, which is my suspicion! Yes, I think you missed my point, probably because it was very narrow and I didn't make it well enough. Maybe I was just aiming at semantics. You said that you "very seldom" see a loss by henka, while 30% is wayyy more than "very seldom" in my book! Even 50% is actually "bad odds" in sumo unless you really feel your opponent is unbeatable by conventional means. However, if your suspicion is "henka generally succeed" now that sounds accurate enough and I can see why it worries you. We might suppose this is a self-correcting situation and no formal intervention is required. The rikishi and the tachi-ai will adapt to the increasing prevalence of henka to neutralize it's effectiveness. And then it will cease to be as popular as it is becoming in our little snapshot of Ozumo history. Or not. Others suggest it has always been this way, so who really knows? And to your last post, I do wonder if the backward motion to pulling technique (or overhead chopdown) is ever called a henka? I always thought it only applied to lateral movement. Even the old "leap over the yardarm" or whatever it's called (perfected by Hayateumi, Mainoumi? and Kyokushuzan) I would not expect to be called a henka although it might be similarly classified by many.
kaiguma Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 I would argue that if they were just describing lateral motion, commentators would be using kawaru rather than henka, because it is more precise. They do use "kawaru", very frequently, and no, it's not more precise. They're synonyms - "henka" being a Chinese loanword just sounds a little more refined/educated/announcer-like. And they wouldn't sound so surprised when it happens! What word they use has nothing to do with if they're surprised or not. I've heard "Henka!!!" and I've heard "Kawarimashita!!!" and even "Kawatta!!!" They sound surprised because they are surprised, no matter what word they use. Thanks for this info. The "Kawa" comments were previously lost on me and now I will look out for them. Inaccuracies of my understanding of Japanese baseball terminology aside, you really didn't address my premise than neither henka nor kawaru, nor the shared 変 kanji are defined by lateral movement or even movement at all. And of them only kawaru has a subset of meaning involving motion. The basic meaning in each case is simply change, and the variable which we change is not clearly defined. Only context supplies this. In Sumo, both terms certainly refer to lateral movement. But I strongly feel that they simultaneously refer to psychological fake-out. This aspect of the phrase is no more "implied" than the physical counterpart. Besides, in Japanese language and culture, it is often the more subtle components that drive deeper meaning, implied but not stated forcefully.
paolo Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 [...And to your last post, I do wonder if the backward motion to pulling technique (or overhead chopdown) is ever called a henka? I always thought it only applied to lateral movement. I am not sure and you can be right, but how do we define otherwise Hakuho's move versus Asashoryu in March 2007 kettei-sen ? It was "avoiding tachiai" completely... if this is not a henka, is it called a different name ? Even the old "leap over the yardarm" or whatever it's called (perfected by Hayateumi, Mainoumi? and Kyokushuzan) I would not expect to be called a henka although it might be similarly classified by many. I agree, that is not a henka, but it is a very risky move, even when performed by a specialist. I remember I saw once Aminishiki versus a specialist of that move (so he expected it in a way): he raised up and caught his opponent in mid flight, kept him in the air and threw him "easily" outside the dohio.... The difference in my opinion lies in the fact that in this case the "leaper" runs a lot of risks that a henkaer seems not to run.
Hananotaka Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 Inaccuracies of my understanding of Japanese baseball terminology aside, you really didn't address my premise than neither henka nor kawaru, nor the shared 変 kanji are defined by lateral movement or even movement at all. Yes, I disagreed with that entire premise. It doesn't follow with my understanding of the Japanese language and idiom in both everyday usage and in sumo. And the use of 変化 in baseball is very relevant to the discussion. Balls that move off of a straight line are 変化球. I can bring in an aikido example, too. In aikido, there is an exercise called "tai no henka" (henka of the body). Here's a clip. No fake out is involved here - it's simply a body movement exercise that moving off the line of attack. This exercise is also referred to as . In this case, the kanji for "ka" (化 indicating "change", "-ization") is changed to "ko" (更 indicating "change, revise"). The kanji for 変 remained. Not that that really makes a difference, since, as I said, "henka" and "kawaru" are synonyms, and are used interchangeably, particularly in sumo.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now