torchbearer 2008

[shimodahito]

good day all,

based on my torchbearer 2007 experiment, i've decided to open this up as a pick the 2008 torchbearer contest. the torch will start with the last rikishi on the 2008 HATSU BANZUKE. a rikishi will pass the torch to whoever beats him during the tournaments.

please submit:

1) the name of the rikishi you think will end up with the torch at the end of the 2008 KYUSHU BASHO.

and

2) the rank of the rikishi that will end up with the torch at the end of the KYUSHU BASHO.

50 points if you get the final torch holding rikishi.

50 points if you get the final torch holding rank.

THROUGHOUT THE YEAR:

3 points for every torch match your chosen rikishi wins.

3 points for every torch match your chosen rank wins.

1 point for every torch match your chosen rikishi loses.

1 point for every torch match your chosen rank loses.

AT THE END OF KYUSHU BASHO:

10 points if your chosen rikishi is one position from the final torchholder, 9 points if two positions, 8 if three positions... and so on down to 1 point.

10 points if your chosen rank is one position from the final torchholder, 9 points if two positions, 8 if three positions... and so on down to 1 point.

submission with the most points at the end of the year will get a prize (i have one year to think about what the prize will be).

deadline for entries is the saturday, january 12th... JST.

My picks for final 2008 torch holder -

rikishi: Masatsukasa (from aomori!!!)

rank: Makushita 3 West

-shimodahito

[Profomisakari]

This is an very interesting game idea. I think I will participate your game.

But let me give a reference to our game Capture the Sagari .

This game like yours sets a mark ( Virtual Golden Sagari) on a rikishi (the last in the Makuuchi banzuke) and let it wander each bout of its carrier to the winner.

Our game is only for one basho. Each player can set in a posting for himself one rikishi, who is reserved for him beginning with this posting until he changes his pick and gives the picked rikishi free. Deadline for new particiipation or changing the pick is the time of Sagari bout on Senshuraku.

Winner of the game is the player who has picked the last winner of the Virtual Golden Sagari.

You are invited to see the postings about the game in Kyu Shu basho. There you can find too the rules (In German, sorry!) and you can follow the game progress. This is a good way to understand our simple game - I think too without speaking german.

You are invited to participate our game after publishing the game banzuke before Hatsu basho 2008.

And here is my guess for your game in 2008:

The rikishi is Kyukushuho

The rank should be Makushita 4 East

Profomisakari

Edited March 20, 2008 by Profomisakari

[kaiguma]

Rikishi: Asofuji

Rank: Juryo 12 E

Suggestion: chances of winning the 50 points for correct rank and rikishi are statistically marginal! Maybe you should award 50 points to whoever comes closest in each case, and then apply the 10-point spread from there. In the case of a tie, you could award 25 points each or the full 50 at your discretion.

Question: can different players pick the same rikishi and rank?

Allowing players to pick both the same could obviously result in an unbreakable tie for the yusho. If you adopt the scoring suggestion above, I'd recommend not being able to choose the same rank, but same rikishi might be ok. Then you cold break a tie with the first to finalize their pick.

Question 2: may we edit picks?

-kaiguma

Edited December 5, 2007 by kaiguma

[Terarno]

Good stuff !

I pick :

- Rikishi : Tamaasuka

- Rank : E-Juryo 2

Thanks.

Terarno

[Ganzohnesushi]

Funny!

Hakurozan J5w

Ganzohnesushi

[Gusoyama]

Kirinowaka ms4w

[shimodahito]

good day all,

just a reminder to enter the "pick the 2008 torchbearer" contest. to date, i've received entries from:

Peterao

Hitotsuboshi

Daughter of Sukubidubidu

Jejima

Profomisakari

kaiguma

Konizan

j.maciel

terarno

Ganzohnesushi

Gusoyama

wildcard

the torch will start with the last rikishi on the 2008 HATSU BANZUKE. a rikishi will pass the torch to whoever beats him during the tournaments.

please submit:

1) the name of the rikishi you think will end up with the torch at the end of the 2008 KYUSHU BASHO.

and

2) the rank of the rikishi that will end up with the torch at the end of the KYUSHU BASHO.

i made a slight modification to the points taking in some suggestions from forum members...

50 points if you get the final torch holding rikishi.

50 points if you get the final torch holding rank.

OR (if the exact rank and/or rikishi is not chosen)...

10 points if you are closest to the final torch holding rikishi.

10 points if you are closest to the final torch holding rank.

THROUGHOUT THE YEAR:

3 points for every torch match your chosen rikishi wins.

3 points for every torch match your chosen rank wins.

1 point for every torch match your chosen rikishi loses.

1 point for every torch match your chosen rank loses.

AT THE END OF KYUSHU BASHO BONUS:

10 points if your chosen rikishi is one position from the final torchholder, 9 points if two positions, 8 if three positions... and so on down to 1 point.

10 points if your chosen rank is one position from the final torchholder, 9 points if two positions, 8 if three positions... and so on down to 1 point.

submission with the most points at the end of the year will get a prize (i have one year to think about what the prize will be).

deadline for entries is the saturday, january 12th... JST.

My picks for final 2008 torch holder -

rikishi: Masatsukasa (from aomori!!!)

rank: Makushita 3 West

-shimodahito

[shimodahito]

good day all,

happy new year.

a few more entries have come my way and i thank everyone who is participating.

doitsuyama, one of my top 5 sumo forum favorites, is quoted as saying: "This might be the silliest sumo "games" I have ever seen and I have seen them all." well i hope now that banzuke has been released, doitsuyama is ready to submit an entry. (Neener, neener...)

the wildcard's chosen rikishi is Morikawa. the wildcard's chosen rank is Jk33 east. unless Morika sits out the whole year, these picks will guarantee the wildcard entrant 'torchbearer 2008' points. how wildcard does as the year progresses is anyone's guess.

deadline for entries is the saturday, january 12th... JST.

happy picks.

-shimodahito

[Vikanohara]

Just for the spirit :

Rikishi : Tochiozan

Rank : M5e

[shimodahito]

good day all,

this is the last day for your entry chance of the year. you can post here, or send to me at shimodahito@yahoo.com.

best of luck to all entries and thanks for participating.

-shimodahito

[Oshirokita]

My picks for final 2008 torch holder - (a wild stab in the dark, hoping for a miracle run through Juryo when the torch gets there...)

rikishi: Baruto

rank: Maegashira 1 West

Go ahead and laugh now.

- Oshirokita

[Mmikasazuma]

Rikishi: Asasakai (Takasago)

Rank: Juryo 13w

[shimodahito]

good day all,

the first torch match happened on day 3. the WILDCARD picks of Jk33e and Morikawa (the default lowest rank and rikishi) earned him only 2 points (1 for the rank losing, 1 for the rikishi losing). the torch has passed.

i will only be updating when an entrant's chosen rank or rikishi is involved in torch match.

-shimodahito

[Gusoyama]

Not to drag this up out of the depths, but as an update, the torch indeed went to Fujiazuma, jk32e, on day 3. Fujiazuma then won two more times, and dropped out. So I guess the torch is still stuck there. I hope he doesn't retire.

[Gusoyama]

Quick update: on Day 5, Fujiazuma lost to Fukao, who may have the torch for a while. He's 6-0, and the torch will definitely be moving up to Jonidan next basho, whether he loses or not.

edited to add: I'm not updating this to steal the show, or because I think shimodahito is doing a poor job. I just enjoy doing it.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Gusoyama

[Profomisakari]

Hi, Shimodahito!

You've offert an interesting game idea and invited us to play this game.

But have a good game is not alone sufficient to declare rules and a deadline.

First of all the players need information about the participants, her guesses and the actually standings.

In December you wrote:

... to date, i've received entries from:

Peterao

Hitotsuboshi

Daughter of Sukubidubidu

Jejima

Profomisakari

kaiguma

Konizan

j.maciel

terarno

Ganzohnesushi

Gusoyama

wildcard

I found in this Thread the following picks posted:

Shimodahito . Masatsukasa Ms3w

Profomisakari Kyukushuho. Ms4e

Kaiguma . . . Asofuji . . J12e

Terarno . . . Tamaasuka . J2e

Ganzohnesushi Hakurozan . J5w

Gusoyama. . . Kirinowaka. ms4w

Vikanohara. . Tochiozan . M5e

Oshirokita. . Baruto. . . M1w

Mmikasazuma . Asasakai. . J13w

On Jan 16 you wrote, wildcard had picked Morikawa an for his loss against Fujiazuma wildcard gets 2 points.

Can you say me: Is wildcard a person or a artifical construct?

Well it's possible, but we other player should know the guesses of all players.

Please the guesses of all players!

And then are two things interesting for your games.

1. How develop the picked sumotori of each player from basho to basho in the banzuke ?

2. How goes the torch from Sumotori to Sumotori? (all bouts to save or win the torch)

I've studied Doitsuyamas Full Banzukes and his daily Lower Division Results and came to the following results

1. The career of the picked sumotori:

P l a y e r . P i c k . . Pick. Hatsu Haru.

Shimodahito . Masatsukasa Ms3w. J10e. J9e .

Profomisakari Kyukushuho. Ms4e. Sd14w Ms55w

Kaiguma . . . Asofuji . . J12e. J10w. Ms3e.

Terarno . . . Tamaasuka . J2e . Ms25w Ms31w

Ganzohnesushi Hakurozan . J5w . J3w . J2w .

Gusoyama. . . Kirinowaka. ms4w. J13e. J13w.

Vikanohara. . Tochiozan . M5e . M15e. M12e.

Oshirokita. . Baruto. . . M1w . M6e . M7e .

Mmikasazuma . Asasakai. . J13w. Jd34w Jd9w.

Wildcard. . . Morikawa. . Jk33e Jk33e Jk30e

2. The long way of the torch thrugh the banzuke:

Start . Jk33e Morikawa

08-1-03 Jk32e Fujiazuma Oshitaoshi Morikawa . . Wildcard . . 2

08-1-06 Jk32e Fujiazuma Hikiotoshi Takamine . .

08-3-01 Jk21e Fujiazuma Hikiotoshi Azumahana. .

08-3-03 Jk21e Fujiazuma Oshidashi. Daishiryu. .

08-3-05 Jk26e Fukao . . Okuridashi Fujiazuma. .

08-3-08 Jk26e Fukao . . Yorikiri . Homarefuji .

08-3-09 Jk26e Fukao . . Oshitaoshi Shikinokawa.

08-3-11 Jk26e Fukao . . Oshidashi. Noguchi. . .

08-3-13 Jk26e Fukao . . vs Jk2w. . Chiyonishiki

How you see I've listed too the next bout from the Torikumi to make the game mor interesting.

I think we must make the game as interesting as possible or you have in future no players for your game.

Please report about your game like so, important: report after every bout

Thanks to Gusoyama for his postings. Without them we would know nothing about the standings of the game.

And - please - excuse me for my bad English!

Profomisakari

[Oshirokita]

nice post Profomisakari! I like the way you have presented the data so far

(I am not worthy...)

[Profomisakari]

Let me complete todays result:

Fukao beats Chiyonishiki and wins the Jonokuchi yusho.

Now the Torch will stay in the Heya until next basho.

Then we hope Fukao can the torch light new on a much higher level in upper Jonidan

This is the long way of the torch through the banzuke until thid day:

Start . Jk33e Morikawa

08-1-03 Jk32e Fujiazuma Oshitaoshi Morikawa . . Wildcard . . 2

08-1-06 Jk32e Fujiazuma Hikiotoshi Takamine . .

08-3-01 Jk21e Fujiazuma Hikiotoshi Azumahana. .

08-3-03 Jk21e Fujiazuma Oshidashi. Daishiryu. .

08-3-05 Jk26e Fukao . . Okuridashi Fujiazuma. .

08-3-08 Jk26e Fukao . . Yorikiri . Homarefuji .

08-3-09 Jk26e Fukao . . Oshitaoshi Shikinokawa.

08-3-11 Jk26e Fukao . . Oshidashi. Noguchi. . .

08-3-13 Jk26e Fukao . . Hikiotoshi Chiyonishiki

Moreover I see two problems in our rules:

1. How to announce to participate the game next times?

My suggestion is: with posting in a thread like this.

2. How to decide if a torchbearer the next basho is intai?

I would say the torch goes to the last opponent he beat.

So would stay in our case Chiyonishiki in wait to get the torch if Fukao goes intai.

(I hope he will not)

But what is the time to decide about this change. Only in case of intai?

Or if he ist kyojo on the begin of the new basho?

Or ...?

We should use the next time to discuss about these problems.

And perhaps are there in addition other problems them I not saw!

Let's talk about the game!

And Shimodahito! We need you. It's your game idea.

You should post in future again the reports over the game, but more intensive as to this day.

My two posts today should be a help for you to make the game more interesting and attractive.

Profomisakari

[Terarno]

Thank you Profomisakari.

Damn, my pick is moving up to the top of Makushita, and the torch is still in Jonokuchi. They have to be in the same area at some moment, I guess, to have a chance to grab it. Ganbatte torchbearers !

[Jejima]

I have just checked my email entry, and I picked 'Kaiho J5W'.

I also sent the below analysis of the game to the sumo mailing list, which (obviously) did not take into account the torch-bearer being kyujo.

Very interesting (Sign of approval...)

But thinking about it a little, and the way that the sumo torikumis

are arranged in the lower divisions, it is almost certain that the

torch will pass up through the divisions quite quickly. This is

because two rikishi with the same record are usually matched against

each other. Therefore as the torch always passes to the winners of

such match-ups, the torch will (normally) be competed for by two 0-0

rikishi, then two 1-0 rikishi, then two 2-0 rikishi, and so on up to

two 6-0 rikishi. The winner of which will then either be the Yusho

winner or be involved in a kettei-sen, the winner of which will be

holding the torch. Yusho winners in the divisions below Makushita are

usually promoted to the next division.

So the torch will more likely than not progress through each of the

divisions with the yusho winner (last year the jump up to Jonidan

before winning the Jonosuke Yusho was perhaps a bit of luck). So, I

would guess that the torch would end up in Makushita for July. Then

depending on who wins the Makushita Yusho, it will either go to Upper

Makushita or straight to Juryo for September. If it remains in Upper

Makushita, it will again depend on who wins the Makushita Yusho - or

if there is the right Juryo-Makushita bout for a cross-over. If it

goes to Juryo, it may make it to Makunouchi for November, but more

likely remain in upper Juryo.

Now, I just have to work out who I think will be in that range next

November, and then get my entry in for next year ;-)

[Jejima]

checking my old emails from the sumo mailing list, i find the following....

rikishi: Asashoryu

rank: Yokozuna East

- Peterao

I'll pick

Baruto

Maegashira 15 east

Chris "Hitotsuboshi" Long

Daughter of Sukubidubidu selects her favorite rikishi, Gagamaru, as her predicted 2008 torchbearer winner. Daughter of Sukubidubidu predicts that Gagamaru will be at the rank of Juryo 9 east.

Hi Sumogamers!

I'll pick

Goeido (now Maegashira 6 West)

At the end of last year he will be Sekiwake East 1

That's just the two mozart-balls from Vienna, where next June some games of the European Football Championship will tae place!

Best wishes, Konrad (Konizan)

Joshua Maciel:

Kaiho, Juryo 12 W

What is the wild card?

the wildcard's chosen rikishi is Morikawa. the

wildcard's chosen rank is Jk33 east. unless Morika

sits out the whole year, these picks will guarantee

the wildcard entrant 'torchbearer 2008' points. how

wildcard does as the year progresses is anyone's

guess.

[shimodahito]

good day all,

sorry for the delay. i appreciate all the excitement for this game.

first, with the release of the banzuke, FUKAO is the rikishi that currently holds the torch and JONIDAN 24 EAST is the position that holds the torch. profomisakari's path of the torch is correct, and i sort of like the way he presented this.

now some comments from the discussions:

- there are 20 players entered, including everyone that was mentioned in this thread....

- i'm not active enough to be making daily posts, but my intention was to make a post every time an entrant was in the running for points. as the torch moves up into the ranges of the picks, this will become more active. remember, you can get points if your chosen rikishi OR your chosen rank is in play....

*** so for example, profomisakari picked KYUKUSHUHO and MAKUSHITA 4 EAST. his rikishi may never touch the torch, but if it gets stuck at Mk4e (no matter who is holding it).... he's going to earn points.

- yes, the torch got off to a slower start than last year with both MORIKAWA and FUJIAZUMA rikishi, (as well as JONOKUCHI 33 EAST and JONOKUCHI 32 EAST ranks) being injured with the torch..... but now it's moving again. if the torch ever retires (or goes banzuke-gai) with a rikishi/rank, i will continue the trail with the last active torch holder.

- "wildcard" was an artificial entrant, and by default, gets the lowest rikishi and rank at the start of the year. "wildcard" is the only entrant to currently have points (2) and is the leader. it's safe to say that the "wildcard" chosen rank (Jk33e) won't be earning any more points this year. but his chosen rikishi (MORIKAWA) could earn points if he rises through the banzuke and crosses paths with the torch. if no other entrant's chosen rank or chosen rikishi has a torch match, "wildcard" will win this contest.

good luck to all as the year progresses.

-shimodahito

[shimodahito]

good day all,

just an update as to where the torch is with the release of the new banzuke. amazingly, the torch has only been held by only four rikishi and seven ranks. if anyone would have picked Fukao or Jk24e, they would have racked up some points.....

HATSU BANZUKE: Jk33e Morikawa (wildcard's rank and shikona pick)

HATSU DAY 03: torch handed to Jk32e Fujiazuma (wildcard: 2 points)

HATSU DAY 06: Jk32e Fujiazuma beats Jk30 Takamine

HATSU DAY 07: Jk32e Fujiazuma withdraws from basho....

HARU BANZUKE: Jk21e Fujiazuma

HARU DAY 01: Jk21e Fujiazuma beats Jk20w Azumahana

HARU DAY 03: Jk21e Fujiazuma beats Jk19w Daishiryu

HARU DAY 05: torch handed to Jk26e Fukao

HARU DAY 08: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk27e Homarefuji

HARU DAY 09: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk19e Shikinokawa

HARU DAY 11: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk10w Noguchi

HARU DAY 13: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk2w Chiyonishiki

NATSU BANZUKE: Jd24e Fukao

NATSU DAY 02: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd24w Fusanohana

NATSU DAY 04: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd23e Kotokashiwadani

NATSU DAY 05: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd26e Kaorufuji

NATSU DAY 08: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd30w Kinokawa

NATSU DAY 09: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd36w Katagiri

NATSU DAY 11: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd12e Genkaimaru

NATSU DAY 13: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd65w Daishoiwa

NATSU KETTEI-SEN: torch handed to Jd93e Homarefuji

NAGOYA BANZUKE: Sd85e Homarefuji

were getting closer to the ranks and shikonas of some entrant's picks.... best of luck to all,

-shimodahito

[shimodahito]

good day all,

just an update as to where the torch is with the release of the new banzuke. amazingly, the torch never left Homarefuji's hands during Nagoya. so for 2008, the torch has only been held by four rikishi and eight ranks. here's the summary with NAGOYA added.....

HATSU BANZUKE: Jk33e Morikawa (wildcard's rank and shikona pick)

HATSU DAY 03: torch handed to Jk32e Fujiazuma (wildcard: 2 points)

HATSU DAY 06: Jk32e Fujiazuma beats Jk30 Takamine

HATSU DAY 07: Jk32e Fujiazuma withdraws from basho....

HARU BANZUKE: Jk21e Fujiazuma

HARU DAY 01: Jk21e Fujiazuma beats Jk20w Azumahana

HARU DAY 03: Jk21e Fujiazuma beats Jk19w Daishiryu

HARU DAY 05: torch handed to Jk26e Fukao

HARU DAY 08: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk27e Homarefuji

HARU DAY 09: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk19e Shikinokawa

HARU DAY 11: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk10w Noguchi

HARU DAY 13: Jk26e Fukao beats Jk2w Chiyonishiki

NATSU BANZUKE: Jd24e Fukao

NATSU DAY 02: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd24w Fusanohana

NATSU DAY 04: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd23e Kotokashiwadani

NATSU DAY 05: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd26e Kaorufuji

NATSU DAY 08: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd30w Kinokawa

NATSU DAY 09: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd36w Katagiri

NATSU DAY 11: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd12e Genkaimaru

NATSU DAY 13: Jd24e Fukao beats Jd65w Daishoiwa

NATSU KETTEI-SEN: torch handed to Jd93e Homarefuji

NAGOYA BANZUKE: Sd85e Homarefuji

NAGOYA DAY 02: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Sd84w Daihoyama

NAGOYA DAY 04: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Sd84e Jigurama

NAGOYA DAY 05: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Sd87e Kasugasato

NAGOYA DAY 07: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Sd88w Kabutoiwa

NAGOYA DAY 09: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Jd5w Oka

NAGOYA DAY 11: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Sd91w Hiryu

NAGOYA DAY 13: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Jd45e Yamashita

NAGOYA KETTEI-SEN: Sd85e Homarefuji beats Sd9e Surugatsukasa

AKI BANZUKE: Ms55w Homarefuji

we're getting closer to the ranks and shikonas of some entrant's picks.... best of luck to all,

-shimodahito

[shimodahito]

good day all,

the torch stayed in the makushita ranks throughout the Aki Basho, and although many "torchbearer 2008" participants picked makushita ranks and rikishi that are currently in makushita, none had a chance to pick up some points. The "wildcard" still leads the contest with 2 points.

here's the torch's journey through the AKI BASHO:

AKI BANZUKE: Ms55w Homarefuji

AKI DAY 02: Ms55w Homarefuji defeats Ms55e Asahisakari

AKI DAY 04: Ms55w Homarefuji defeats Ms54e Aozora

AKI DAY 05: The TORCH is passed to Ms53e Omiryu

AKI DAY 07: The TORCH is passed to Ms48e Sotairyu

AKI DAY 09: Ms48e Sotairyu defeats Ms57w Daionami

AKI DAY 11: The TORCH is passed to Ms44w Sasaki

AKI DAY 13: The TORCH is passed to Ms13w Yotsugurma (who wins the yusho with a 7-0 record)

KYUSHU BANZUKE: Juryo ??? Yotsugurma

many participants had Juryo picks and rikishi who are currently in Juryo so good luck to all.

-shimodahito