"Asashoryu facing YDC" banter

[Kintamayama]

No matter what cost he pays in pride, humiliation., etc?? Where's the limit of endurance? What will be the last straw, if anything? I understand a sportsman wanting to reach the very top, but at what cost to his mental health?

Also this one has been replied to several times over. The answer is:

If jerks have your life in your hand and force you to apologize, so be it. Little humiliation involved, if any.

(even if you wish so badly the opposite were true)

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the question of "where's the limit". "Little humiliation involved, if any"??? Gimme a break.. this is total humiliation. Everyone who has a committee is now ordering him to apologize to them. Wasn't all the punishment enough? He's probably learned his lesson by now, so why this?

And why does he play along??And why do you think I wish anything? I just wish someone would give me an intelligent answer to this simple question instead of attacking me personally with emoticons.

You keep saying he's been wronged and everyone's out to get him because of the color of his skin- yet he meekly goes where he is told. "Because the jerks have his life"??

Lame. Not good enough. It's Asa, not Takamisakari. And Calcium just called me a "jerk" in another thread, so I guess I have his life in my hands too.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Kuroyama]

I meant that If Asa became weak like Kaio, he should retire. But Asa is not like Kaio.

No, he lacks Kaio's mental toughness. When the going got difficult, Asa went as limp as overcooked ramen.

If Asa did yaocha like Taikai did in favor Kaio, he should retire too. But Asa is not like Taikai who completely dishonoured sumo audience.

You're right; he's not like Chiyotaikai. He didn't bow out of a competition where he stood to make some significant gain due to injury; he bowed out of a series of charity and fan appreciation events where he stood to gain nothing material at all. And where he later showed he may not have been so injured as he claimed, thereby not only dishonoring the fans directly by refusing to make himself approachable, but creating a national embarrassment.

No, nothing like Chiyotaikai at all.

If Asa beat somebody or killed somebody like those in Tokitsukaze murder case, Asa should be punished

No, as far as I know his lawbreaking had never risen beyond property damage. But are you saying that because some people in sumo have done things that are far worse, everyone should let Asa get away with anything he wants short of murder?

And do you expect to be taken seriously? Why?

what did Asa do horribly wrong....oh no, He just entertained poor kids by playing with them 15 minutes. what a crime

If it's that easy, then there were children in Japan who it was actually his job to entertain -- but he said he was too injured for that. You know, that job that's made him a world-famous cultural icon and which pays him handsomely. It's surely not too much to ask him to do the parts of that job that don't involve the prospect of additional reward. Most other rikishi who have reaped far less benefit from sumo do this cheerfully.

[Kintamayama]

More to it: he should do it according to the whims of the NSK.

Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles-they're the boss, and they's the law as long as they are.

The very same respectable organziation that allows young rikishi to die during training.

Oh come now-because one Oyakata lost it, let's not blame the Kyokai-it's not like the rikishi are dying like flies..That's unfair.

The same respectable organization that, according to overwhelming evidence, has enganged in match fixing for decades. The same respectable organization whose chairman was accused of sexual assault, claims that have never been properly investigated. The same respectable organziation that has brought sumo to its knees -- they couldn't even sell out the final days of the Kyushu basho.

The word "respectable " never left my fingers whilst discussing the NSK. I personally hope come January we have a totally new board of directors including the head. But I'm not holding my breath-this is saying I totally agree with all you said here.

Yeah, this NSK should continue to define the "rules" of the sport -- for example,

banning Asashoryu for playing soccer at a charity event (or was it for threatening to surpass Kitanoumi's basho record?) (Neener, neener...)

I think the banning was right, for the record. They will continue to define the rules because they have the mandate. That's life, as you said before. I don't think it has anything remotely to do with Kitanoumi's record, as it will be broken soon enough, as Asa is seemingly willing to go through anything to do it.

Btw, I fancy Asashoryu because he is damn good rikishi and I love sumo. No more no less. (Yusho winner...)

My sentiments exactly. That's why I can't bear to see him endure this new round of apology crap.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Randomitsuki]

Why? Why do you want him back? You want him back so he can participate and help the incompetent Kyokai?

Because I love sumo and sumo needs Asashoryu.

Your posts literally contain dozens of starting points for debate, but I'll just stick with this one sentence. Would you care to explain why sumo needs Asashoryu?

In financial terms there might be some small (and even debatable) truth in this assertion, but from what I gather you came to this forum not as a business accountant, but as a sumo fan. So in all honesty, why does sumo need Asashoryu?

Sumo exists as an organized sports event for 250 years now. Do you expect the Kyokai to fold the sport when Asashoryu retires one day? Will they close their doors, knowing that the ever-lasting highlight of 250 years has just passed by?

Nope and nope again. And why should they? They know fully well that in a couple of years he will be past his prime and starts losing against newcomers. When he's gone, he's gone, that's what our beloved Ms. Uchidate expressed so unfavorably. The Kyokai doesn't care that much about Asashoryu in the long run. In no way sumo needs Asashoryu, it's the other way round.

To rephrase your comment, I don't think that sumo needs Asashoryu. And I am not really convinced that you love sumo.

I think that Asashoryu needs sumo. And I have a feeling that you love Asashoryu, but not the sport. I draw the latter conclusion from your remarks about the "two fake tournaments".

[Kintamayama]

I see. There are class A sumo fans that include yourself (understood) and hate Asashoryu (per definition).

And there are class B sumo fans who fancy fair and meaningful competition. But they are type B fans, and hence they don't count.

No. there are sumo fans, fans of the sport, and there are patriots who follow their compatriots blindly to any sport of their choice. They don't care about the sport itself-they care about their national heroes. We saw that with the Hawaiians-most Hawaiian sumo fans disappeared together with the last Hawaiian rikishi. Same thing will happen here.

Was that so hard to follow? I love sumo, isn't that what you are repeatedly saying? So do I. For 45 years, no less.. And I actually like Asa very much indeed. So the "definition' is a bit off, eh?

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

I meant that If Asa became weak like Kaio, he should retire. But Asa is not like Kaio.

No, he lacks Kaio's mental toughness. When the going got difficult, Asa went as limp as overcooked ramen.

No, Asa is far more mentally tough guy than Kaio. Kaio did not not through such devastating attack from all sides like Asa went through. Asa all alone have gone through it and survived. Actually He beat the attackers by his defiance. And now he is returning as NUMERU UNO. Last 2 basho played in favor of Asa and performance of all sumo wrestlers showed that Asa is NUMERU UNO. They need Asa to come back to achieve. Even Hakuho got lazy to wrestle in 15th day of basho (Yusho winner...)

Asashoryu Sumo standart is so high. Currently there is no one upto to that. Goeido and Ama has same style like Asashoryu.

Regarding Kaio's mental toughness, it is all about pity. People love to feel good to pity weak ones like Kaio, because weak people associate themselves with weak. People hate the strong one and intimidated by strong one like Asashoryu

If Asa beat somebody or killed somebody like those in Tokitsukaze murder case, Asa should be punished

No, as far as I know his lawbreaking had never risen beyond property damage. But are you saying that because some people in sumo have done things that are far worse, everyone should let Asa get away with anything he wants short of murder?

And do you expect to be taken seriously? Why?

I am not comparing Asashopryu case with murder. My intention was about to compare the reactions of NSC to these 2 cases.

Everyone knows how NSC behaved, they were so slow to admit anyting . NSC was so reluctant to act following the murder, they tried defend murderer by their slowness. Even Government of Japan lost a patience and demanded NSC act quickly.

Then how did NSC act on Asashoryu? I guess i don't need to repeat anything

what did Asa do horribly wrong....oh no, He just entertained poor kids by playing with them 15 minutes. what a crime

If it's that easy, then there were children in Japan who it was actually his job to entertain -- but he said he was too injured for that. You know, that job that's made him a world-famous cultural icon and which pays him handsomely. It's surely not too much to ask him to do the parts of that job that don't involve the prospect of additional reward. Most other rikishi who have reaped far less benefit from sumo do this cheerfully.

That is very subjective matter. Everyone has right to have their own opinion

[Asojima]

He will go to depths of apology hitherto unknown to man.. So why is he still around?

Cash!

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

He will go to depths of apology hitherto unknown to man.. So why is he still around?

Cash!

Of course, CASH too. But I hope. all these years of being sumo wrestler, he accumulated enough CaSh to buy some gold mining license in Mongolia which can produce more than his income for being Gaijin in Japan. Or I hope he has enough japanese who has deep purse to do some co-business, If he quit sumo.

So I guess CaSh is not number-1 reason. If CaSh is number #1 reason to come back and go through all these craps, then Sumo is not that attractive for those who wants more CaSh.

[yoda]

Those who declare that Sumo is more than just a sport should keep in their mind that it is still a spectator enterprise (I am actually avoiding a term "showbiz"). Spectators need drama, saga, and sensation. This is what keeps it going. The ongoing debate in this forum seems to just prove this.

Sumo looks just right for these sagas. 300 pound guys are kept at stables to profess in brawling, and doing brawling for living. Kyokai is doing their best to keep them in line. Odds are that one of them (including oygatas!) will slip at some point and get into trouble (with beer bottle). 26 years old dude kicks asses of all the brawlers, and morphs into Yokozuna. He feels (inside) like king of the world, and thinks he can lend his leg to poor kids in a poor country. Fans, clubs, and elders get offended, and media is just happy that this incident happened. Yokozuna is expected to be invincible. But some get offended if he wins too much. Some get offended the other way around, if he looses. So, the trap is there for him in any case.

So the drama goes on. Members of this forum check the posts every morning. Kyokai, YDC, Ministry of education, support clubs, oyagatas, and the Yokozuna, all doing their best to keep this drama going. What else do we need?

Imagine if there were no mistakes from anyone. We are humans and humans like dramas, and sensations. Looks like Sumo is just another way of satisfying this natural need in another culture.

Well, lets get excited with the return of the king. For sure, he is bringing yet more dramas with him. Long live the King.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Well, lets get excited with the return of the king. For sure, he is bringing yet more dramas with him. Long live the King.

yup, long live the King (Yusho winner...) .

It is amazing to see this boy. Wonder how much difficulties he has gone through.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqhFDxN6-aQ

Asashoryu vs Musashimaru

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4OmFsudxbnU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=No_BYqDCViI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CEe-UIvftUg

can't wait to see his real fight (Neener, neener...) , not on youtube

Edited November 28, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Asashosakari]

First off, Kinta is still da man. (Yusho winner...) 20 posts or so and he's back to being way out in front of me in the "most hated by the Asashoryu fanboys" competition. Awesome.

Anyway, I'll limit myself to one post because there's really no way to argue with the deluded minority of newbie fans who nevertheless believe they're speaking for the majority:

I've pretty much come to realize that, with few exceptions, most of you probably aren't even Asashoryu fans, the way that one would understand the term "fan" in reference to any other sumotori. Nah, you're just fans of the mindless entertainment derived from cheering for the top dog of the sport who gets to stomp all over the competition. It makes clear why Asashoryu manages to attract such a huge share of the most obnoxious people I've ever encountered - even the dumbest fan or the newest newb (not necessarily congruent groups, though there's overlap) can effortlessly figure out why he "should" like Asashoryu, while it takes a wee bit more time spent watching sumo to figure out why other rikishi might be worthy of appreciation, too.

I don't have any problem with uneducated and/or casual sumo fans per se, but when you guys who obviously fail to understand most of the basic tenets of sumo then get all huffy when those of us who've spent a lot more time and effort to understand sumo aren't willing to believe that John Q. Newbie has got it all figured out and we're just doofuses trying to kiss the ass of the Kyokai (what are we supposedly gaining from that, BTW?), well, that's when things tend to get a bit ugly. Anyway, as Kinta said, once Asashoryu is gone, you'll be gone too, and thank goodness for that. I'm happy that Asashoryu is (probably) back to competing again in January, but if I could send most of his "fans" to Mongolia instead (and for more than just three months), it would be a fairer deal.

At any rate, I'm hoping for one of two outcomes for January: A) Asashoryu comes back and dominates again right away, because that will hopefully shut up the banshee-like whining from his defenders, or B) he comes back out of shape and becomes a mediocre 11/12-win yokozuna for the next while, because it would be hilarious to watch all his "fans" turn on him and start looking for the next big thing to mindlessly cheer for.

In closing, I'd like to sort of apologize to Asashoryu: I've long thought the reason that your fans are so obnoxious is a "like and like" matter, as in, your somewhat bristly personality attracts like-minded fans. But that's probably not the case at all - at this point I have little doubt that, once Hakuho is the only active yokozuna, he'll instantly become just as much of a magnet for crazed people. Or perhaps the "lucky" rikishi will be somebody who has already supplanted Hakuho as the top guy by then. My advance condolences to that guy, if so.

[XiaoTan]

Quote: "Regarding Kaio's mental toughness, it is all about pity. People love to feel good to pity weak ones like Kaio, because weak people associate themselves with weak. People hate the strong one and intimidated by strong one like Asashoryu "

We are getting a bit one-dimensional here, aren't we? Physical strength is not mental strength and only few people would attest an incorrigble child mental strength, do we should separate the two. Asa certainly has great physical strength and shows great sumo - but quite frankly I feel let down by the way he behaved the last four months, and for me trying to avoid an aplogy that certainly to a certain extent feels humiliating is a sign of mental weakness not strength. If you cannot bring yourself to apologise before other people, than that's a sign for a weak ego.

Injury-wise and age-wise Kaio has certainly more reason than Asa to sulk and complain and excuse himself from the Jungyo - you do remember for instance that Kaio participated at the summer jungyo even though he was injured in the July tournament and it was recommended that he "stays in bed".

Well - since all of your posts a perfectly one-sided I might have saved my words.

[Ruziklao]

Indeed, I am quite surprised how personal this thread became. Usually it is not the case at this board. I dare to try to express my opinions anyway.

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the question of "where's the limit". "Little humiliation involved, if any"??? Gimme a break.. this is total humiliation. Everyone who has a committee is now ordering him to apologize to them. Wasn't all the punishment enough? He's probably learned his lesson by now, so why this?

If I remember correctly, Asashoryu was watched closely and criticized for many things for a long time. It was not possible to exclude him and many people had to withstand a lot of his behaviour. So it is possible their chance came, they can humiliate him.

And why does he play along??And why do you think I wish anything? I just wish someone would give me an intelligent answer to this simple question instead of attacking me personally with emoticons.

My guess is: money and fame. As yokozuna he is paid quite well, taking into account all kensho and prize money. Where would he be paid like that? Fame is on the line as well, he still can break a few records. But once he quits, no return seems to be possible. It is not like in NHL, where Mario Lemieux returned to add a few points to his life records. Therefore quitting is an extreme strategy. Probably considered, but not yet chosen.

I have a feeling I am listing just obvious things, but may be I am totally wrong...

[HenryK]

I see. There are class A sumo fans that include yourself (understood) and hate Asashoryu (per definition).

And there are class B sumo fans who fancy fair and meaningful competition. But they are type B fans, and hence they don't count.

No. there are sumo fans, fans of the sport, and there are patriots who follow their compatriots blindly to any sport of their choice. They don't care about the sport itself-they care about their national heroes. We saw that with the Hawaiians-most Hawaiian sumo fans disappeared together with the last Hawaiian rikishi. Same thing will happen here.

Was that so hard to follow? I love sumo, isn't that what you are repeatedly saying? So do I. For 45 years, no less.. And I actually like Asa very much indeed. So the "definition' is a bit off, eh?

Your assertion would maybe make some kin dof sense if I was Mongolian -- but I've nevr even been close to the country and do not know a single person from there.

Bad miss, buddy.

P.S: I am not Hawaian either. Neither Russian nor Estonian. Just a fan of sumo.

Edited November 28, 2007 by HenryK

[Kintamayama]

Your assertion would maybe make some kin dof sense if I was Mongolian -- but I've nevr even been close to the country and do not know a single person from there.

Bad miss, buddy.

P.S: I am not Hawaian either. Neither Russian nor Estonian. Just a fan of sumo.

Where on earth did you get the impression I was talking about you??? It was a general statement. YOU have been making this discussion personal, while I have been maintaining it at a general level. All you have to do is go back and read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

To quote a great man:

"That is the main point Asa and some of his more vocal fans don't seem to acknowledge, but most of his fans are temporary sumo fans anyway- just like the Baruto fans and Rohou fans-they'll go when they go."

If I were referring to you, I would have written- "That is the main point YOU don't acknowledge etc.. etc..'" I was referring to his most vocal fans on this forum who are mostly Mongolian. I don't know Jack about you, so I won't dare assume you're a vocal fan-you just got here a few minutes ago, mate.

And my "assertion" is pretty much on the money, factually and otherwise, buddy. See "Hawaiian Sumo Fans", even though you're not Hawaiian yourself.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari]

If I remember correctly, Asashoryu was watched closely and criticized for many things for a long time.

And many times the criticism was totally stupid. IIRC, one of the first things was his showing up with a ponytail instead of a mage at Narita Airport. Sure, a bit of a transgression and yokozuna are always watched more closely than other rikishi, but it ended up being way blown out of proportion while it was a total tempest in a teapot. (And it may come as a big shock to some one-track-minded newer members, but I was actually defending Asashoryu over that and other early missteps, as were several other people who think the suspension was justified.)

On the other hand, what got him suspended was a pretty clear-cut matter...he goes on injury leave thereby skipping certain obligations (mainly obligations to the fans, just to point that out again), then makes a public appearance that clearly shows him less injured than he supposedly was. I'd like the Asa-defenders to try calling in sick to work and then go out and prance around all chipper where their boss is able to see them. I'll be curious how many of them would be getting off without censure, or outright firing. (Prediction: Not very many.)

So, for sure the whole thing allowed some people with an axe to grind the chance to finally get back at Asashoryu, but it's his fault alone for giving them that opportunity to begin with. After four years as a yokozuna, he really shouldn't have been so tone-deaf to what's expected of somebody in his position.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Asashosakari

[aderechelsea]

I will print Asashosakari's post and frame it. I'll even use it in the future (changing the names and situations) to bring back to earth deluded "fans" of many sport figures/teams .....

anyway ....

funny thing about this conversation is that Kinta is targeted by Asa-fans when he is really the biggest AND "healthiest" Asashoryu fan in this forum ... :-)

[Kintamayama]

funny thing about this conversation is that Kinta is targeted by Asa-fans when he is really the biggest AND "healthiest" Asashoryu fan in this forum ... :-)

I don't think anyone is "targeting " me. I enjoy a nice discussion here and there, as long as it involves some sort of banter.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Kintamayama

[HenryK]

Why? Why do you want him back? You want him back so he can participate and help the incompetent Kyokai?

Because I love sumo and sumo needs Asashoryu.

Your posts literally contain dozens of starting points for debate, but I'll just stick with this one sentence. Would you care to explain why sumo needs Asashoryu?

In financial terms there might be some small (and even debatable) truth in this assertion, but from what I gather you came to this forum not as a business accountant, but as a sumo fan. So in all honesty, why does sumo need Asashoryu?

Because he is the best rikishi around, and sports competitions taking place without the best competitors are devalued.

Bashos without Asashoryu is like Wimbledon with Roger Federer barred vrom paricipating. Or a soccer world cup with the forced non-participation of Brazil.

Sumo exists as an organized sports event for 250 years now. Do you expect the Kyokai to fold the sport when Asashoryu retires one day?

They are folding the sport with or without Asashoryu retiring.

Will they close their doors, knowing that the ever-lasting highlight of 250 years has just passed by?

This is pointless. I never said anything like this, thus I won't address such nonsnese.

Nope and nope again. And why should they? They know fully well that in a couple of years he will be past his prime and starts losing against newcomers. When he's gone, he's gone, that's what our beloved Ms. Uchidate expressed so unfavorably.

I understood her to say that Asashoryu had "retired" already (because she and her colleagues on that awesome committee forced him to miss two tournmanets), and that she wouldn't want to see him back. This is rather different from what you say the pretty lady expressed.

The Kyokai doesn't care that much about Asashoryu in the long run. In no way sumo needs Asashoryu, it's the other way round.

The upcoming bashos need Asashoryu's participation if they ar supposed to be meaningful. Of course Asashoryu also needs sumo, it's his life. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

To rephrase your comment, I don't think that sumo needs Asashoryu. And I am not really convinced that you love sumo.

Oh didn't you just hurt my feelings terribly.

I think that Asashoryu needs sumo. And I have a feeling that you love Asashoryu, but not the sport. I draw the latter conclusion from your remarks about the "two fake tournaments".

To me it seems rather that you draw your conclusions from a preconceived image about Asashoryu "fans" which is entirely absurd, at least in my case.

Hold on to your chair: I don't care that much about whether Asashoryu wins or loses. If he never wins a basho again, fizzles out in the coming competitions and retires a couple of years down the road, so be it. If he wins 15 of the next 20 bashos, fine also. My preferred scenario would be one where he and Hakuho establish a proper rivalry, and that some other rikishis evolve who also can win bashos ocassionally -- be it Ama, or Goeido, or Baruto, or Kotooshu (if he gets back to his old form), or someone in the lower divisions who we don't know well yet. In short: a situation that resembles the fascinating, competitive and gripping sumo of the 1990s.

What I do care about though is that bashos are meaningful competitions -- and bashos where the argualby best rikishi is sidelined are severely compromised in value. And yes, this is bad for the sport.

Best,

HK

Edited November 28, 2007 by HenryK

[HenryK]

Your assertion would maybe make some kin dof sense if I was Mongolian -- but I've nevr even been close to the country and do not know a single person from there.

Bad miss, buddy.

P.S: I am not Hawaian either. Neither Russian nor Estonian. Just a fan of sumo.

Where on earth did you get the impression I was talking about you??? It was a general statement. YOU have been making this discussion personal, while I have been maintaining it at a general level. All you have to do is go back and read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

To quote a great man:

"That is the main point Asa and some of his more vocal fans don't seem to acknowledge, but most of his fans are temporary sumo fans anyway- just like the Baruto fans and Rohou fans-they'll go when they go."

If I were referring to you, I would have written- "That is the main point YOU don't acknowledge etc.. etc..'" I was referring to his most vocal fans on this forum who are mostly Mongolian. I don't know Jack about you, so I won't dare assume you're a vocal fan-you just got here a few minutes ago, mate.

And my "assertion" is pretty much on the money, factually and otherwise, buddy. See "Hawwaiian Sumo Fans", even though you're not Hawaiian yourself.

You reply directly to my post, but then you wonder how on earth I get the impression that you mean me with your reply.... :-) (Blushing...)

[HenryK]

No matter what cost he pays in pride, humiliation., etc?? Where's the limit of endurance? What will be the last straw, if anything? I understand a sportsman wanting to reach the very top, but at what cost to his mental health?

Also this one has been replied to several times over. The answer is:

If jerks have your life in your hand and force you to apologize, so be it. Little humiliation involved, if any.

(even if you wish so badly the opposite were true)

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the question of "where's the limit". "Little humiliation involved, if any"??? Gimme a break.. this is total humiliation.

That's what you wish, but unfortunately not at all what it is.

Everyone who has a committee is now ordering him to apologize to them. Wasn't all the punishment enough? He's probably learned his lesson by now, so why this?

These are legit questions, but they shame the committee, not Asashoryu.

And why does he play along??

Because he has no choice (see above).

And why do you think I wish anything?

I somehow can't help that impression :-) (Blushing...)

I just wish someone would give me an intelligent answer to this simple question instead of attacking me personally with emoticons.

I leave it to the wider audience to decide whether the answers lack intelligence or your reaction to the anwers.

You keep saying he's been wronged and everyone's out to get him because of the color of his skin- yet he meekly goes where he is told. "Because the jerks have his life"??

Lame. Not good enough.

Of course this is good enough. Good enough 5 times over.

That is the main point

What point exactly?

Asa and some of his more vocal fans don't seem to acknowledge, but most of his fans are temporary sumo fans anyway- just like the Baruto fans and Rohou fans-they'll go when they go.

Sorry dearest. I forgot that I shouldn't be challenging to you because I am not a proper sumo fan in your book. A class B fan who doesn't count -- not relative to the awesome class A fans who, as is well known, own sumo as their private property.

Edited November 28, 2007 by HenryK

[yoda]

Asashosahari,

Centuries old traditional sports will live on, for sure. No one needs your epic prophecy to figure it out.

The spectators, including you, live for only a generation. And it is their right to appreciate whatever angle of the spectacle they want. So is the era of a man established. You may pretend to go blind and def about Asashoryu. I bet, even Ms. Uchidate will call it Asashoryu era before you will be noticed by Kogukikan janitors. Just let people enjoy Sumo their own way.

I understand your complex though, it is a human nature to get attracted to their most undesired. Why people go to horror movies? It is made to scare and disgust you. Just like this, you will be wanting to see him do his stuff. Not only this, you will even be watching his bad acts to the end however your highness disapproves them. You will still be wanting to watch him in the next morning, and the next morning and so on. If you live in Japan, I bet you will be wanting to see him whatever he does, good or bad. Don't worry, no one will even notice you. It is your right, and you are doing just like the others. This is how the spectator's business work. And no one is going to listen to your advise on the proper way to appreciate Sumo. I am sorry, such is a life.

Well, at any rate, Asashoryu will bring all the drama back to the stage and it couldn't have happened at better times.

He is on the brink of destroying the centuries old believe about gaijins. Can he do this? Then he gets into this mess for helping innocent little kids in a third world country, and melts down like my dick after Friday night's orgy-party. Can he make a come back? Then there is this new Yokozuna, challenging him to meet undefeated. Wow, what a kid. Can he kick this kid's ass? Then the self declared Sumo guru on this forum gets deeply deplored because the newbies are not thinking what he is thinking. Oh, what else can happen?

[Randomitsuki]

The upcoming bashos need Asashoryu's participation if they ar supposed to be meaningful.

Once again, I pick only a single sentence. Meaningful? To whom? As long as you are not Mister Meaning, you have the right to imply what is meaningful to you, but not what is meaningful in general terms. I guess you need Asashoryu so that a basho is meaningful to you (another sign that you might be more focused on him than on the sport). A basho is certainly meaningful to me whether Asashoryu participates or not.

Out of curiosity: Was Natsu 2006 a meaningful basho when Asashoryu withdrew on day 3? Or how about Natsu 2007? He competed all 15 days, but was injured and finished 10-5. Should we make an asterisk behind Hakuho's yusho because in a meaningful basho Asashoryu would have never lost five times? And since I acknowledge your statement that your mind is not all on Asashoryu, one final question: Was Kyushu 2006 meaningful when Hakuho missed out?

[kaiguma]

I still can't figure out why he is staying.

Can't you really figure out highest goal of any sportsmen and women? By staying in the sport, he can achieve his goal which is everybody wants to see.

If he fails to do so ( break the records) , then it is waste of time to come back

No, Kintaamaayaama cannot and will never understand, it is a waste of time to even read his stupid postings. This guy is a total JERK who just wants to crawl into Japanese arses. :-P .

CLAMU

I would wager (tempt me not oh gods of feta) that Kintamayama is seriously yanking your chain, just to watch the drool and drivel spill out of your head. Not much effort required than ironically repeating a question over and over again, sit back and watch you make false assumptions about everything under the sun, and then read less than half of every scathing post that follows him, since the first sentence is so often the same as the second and the last. You sir, are the one who will never understand, as you obviously cannot understand when someone is playing you for an utter fool.

STOP HIJACKING THREADS with this bickering nonsense. You are just being baited into saying something worse than JERK and arse.

Go ahead, please do. We are all waiting for that moment...

(and please if a mod has not already noticed this, can we split this off so it's worth it to read this thread? >>> which is about an upcoming special YDC meeting, and not about SoccerGate or Asashoryu's psychology. It's sad that your efforts must be wasted on moving around idiotic posts all the time, but I guess that's just what happens sometimes in public forums)

[Asashosakari]

Asashosahari,

Centuries old traditional sports will live on, for sure. No one needs your epic prophecy to figure it out.

Are you confusing me with Randomitsuki? I didn't address the "Asashoryu is bigger than sumo" claim, at least not in the last two months or so.

The spectators, including you, live for only a generation. And it is their right to appreciate whatever angle of the spectacle they want. So is the era of a man established. You may pretend to go blind and def about Asashoryu. I bet, even Ms. Uchidate will call it Asashoryu era before you will be noticed by Kogukikan janitors. Just let people enjoy Sumo their own way.

:-P I'm not even sure which post of mine you were supposedly reading that prompted this response. Anyway, in case this actually is in response to something I wrote: I'm not disapproving of people "appreciating whatever angle they want", quite the contrary actually. It's when somebody who obviously understands only one angle out of literally hundreds then claims that their chosen angle is the one that should define sumo for everybody, which is exactly what the "Asashoryu = Eternal Sumo God" crowd is doing when they try to redefine sumo beyond all recognizability. (Mainly by insisting that Winning Trumps Everything Else, and that Sumo Has No Meaning Without Asashoryu.)

And why you decided to get personal with the "the janitor won't even notice you" stuff, I again have no idea. You're right, of course. Unlike people who seemingly take as a personal affront anything the Kyokai does, I have no misconceptions about my position vis-a-vis the Kyokai's decision-making or the future of sumo, namely that I hold none. I'm just here ranting on the interweb about stuff that interests me.

Your user name appears to be well-chosen, at any rate. I can't make heads or tails of most of your post, to be honest. Are you Lucius Flavonius under a new name?

Edited November 28, 2007 by Asashosakari