The most surprising ozeki?

[Asashosakari]

Over in the Polls forum, Manekineko verbalized something that I'd actually wondered about a week or two ago myself, so now it feels like maybe I'm not the only one who might be interested in the topic. (Exclamation...)

I find it very very hard to imagine Ami-chan as an ozeki. He may be a miracle (I never in a million years imagined him as a san'yaku regular, which now I can), but more of 'Tenho kind of miracle: late bloomer, really really good against the tough guys, but not ozeki caliber. And, even if he did manage the promotion, he would be a weak ozeki... I'd rather have him as a miraculous san'yaku, thank you. (In a state of confusion...)

My own feelings about Aminishiki are pretty much the same...if you had asked me five years ago to name a Makuuchi regular who'll never get a kachi-koshi as sekiwake, let alone get promoted to ozeki, Aminishiki would have been way high up the list. I still don't think he'll get anywhere close to ozeki promotion, but now I'm wondering, who was the most surprising rikishi to earn ozeki ever? I don't mean guys like Kaio or Kotomitsuki who were widely tabbed to have the talent for it early on and just couldn't break through for a long time, or somebody like Homasho right now where the general opinion is something like "well, with a few breaks he could get there" - but rather rikishi who literally weren't even considered a longshot early in their career.

I suppose I should leave open the possibility that there has never really been somebody who fits that bill...

[Bealzbob]

... and while others are using long-term knowledge to answer the question posed, can I pose another.

Now I'm in no way casting aspersions on him, but was it a shock at the time for the relatively one-dimensional Chiyotaikai to get promoted to ozeki? I can imagine that while he was rising through the lower ranks, there were people saying things like "His tsuppari will be found out in makuuchi" and "he wont stay in sanyaku without yotsu-sumo" or was he fully expected to get to ozeki from the start ?

[Jakusotsu]

My "active career" watching sumo had Chiyotaikai as the first Ozeki promotion I witnessed, and he sure was a surprise to me whom I never imagined to get that high. (tells more about my expertise than about his prowess I guess (Exclamation...) ) Since then, Dejima, Miyabiyama, Tochiazuma and Kotooshu have surprised me as well, so 5 out of 10 makes me a pretty baffled person. (In a state of confusion...)

[Washuyama]

I think Ozeki Masuiyama II was the most surprising Ozeki promotion... Years of laddering (?) up and down Makuuchi, and all of a sudden a few good records and Ozeki promotion. He didn't last too long at ozeki, nor do too well...

As far as one dimensional, was anyone more one-dimensional than Konishiki?

[Jakusotsu]

As far as one dimensional, was anyone more one-dimensional than Konishiki?

I know what You mean, but calling Konishiki one-dimensional is still funny. (Laughing...)

[Washuyama]

It's one helluva dimension, though....

[Shomishuu]

Without doing thorough research, my vote goes to Kirishima.

Thirteen basho between first juryo and first makuuchi showings.

Four and a half years after that, on making only his second sanyaku appearance, Clyde Newton wrote in Sumo World: "Kirishima will get about two wins as komusubi in January (1989) and fall right back down where he belongs in the low maegashira ranks."

Kirishima did get ABOUT two wins...he went 1-14. Eight basho later, he was ozeki.

Maybe Clyde would vote for him too. (Laughing...)

[Hananotaka]

My vote goes to Kirishima, too. Small rikishi, looked destined to have a Kyokudozan type career, and suddenly put it all together at 30.

There's an odd tendency to see Chiyotaikai as one-dimensional, but this is not the case at all. He is an oshi-zumo specialist, and thus no more one dimensional than Takanohana. One reason he's become Ozeki is because he has decent yotsu-zumo skills -- not high level, but decent. This was certainly evident in his Ozeki-tori basho, where two of his three matches versus Wakanohana went to the belt. Of course, for any opponent it's to their advantage if they can get to his belt (much like it was in a rikishi's best interest to keep Takanohana off of theirs), but Chiyotaikai is far from helpless in that situation. Unlike, say, Dejima.

[Bealzbob]

Unlike, say, Dejima.

Who also got to ozeki coincidentally enough. So putting the question on him - was he a surprise ?

EDIT : Actually, looking back through Dejima's career, he absolutely tore up the banzuke on his way to ozeki so he was probably was expected to get there.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Bealzbob

[higginbotham]

My vote goes to Kirishima, too. Small rikishi, looked destined to have a Kyokudozan type career, and suddenly put it all together at 30.

I completely agree. After his 1-14 at Komusubi, I guess, he was unexpected to become an ozeki or even go back to Sanyaku. Everyone wrote him off. Nonetheless, he not only did it, but also won a ... (Laughing...)

[Hananotaka]

Unlike, say, Dejima.

Who also got to ozeki coincidentally enough. So putting the question on him - was he a surprise ?

EDIT : Actually, looking back through Dejima's career, he absolutely tore up the banzuke on his way to ozeki so he was probably was expected to get there.

I don't think becoming Ozeki itself was surprising, but I think the suddenness in which he become one was a little surprising. His run was kind of a stealth one.

It should be noted, though, that at the time he became Ozeki, Dejima had a vicious sukui-nage. He would hit hard at the tachiai and work towards morozashi while pushing his opponent back. Typically he would get at least one sashi, if not both. If his opponent was able to stop his forward momentum, Dejima was able to break their balance with his sukui-nage, and either go straight for the nage, or get his deashi started again. His honwari win vs. Akebono in his Ozeki-tori basho is a great example. He got a sashi, got Akebono to the tawara, and when Akebono held his ground there, Dejima went for the sukui-nage and got it.

[Gusoyama]

I miss power-sumo Dejima. He shows up now and again, but for the most part, is dormant.

[Sasanishiki]

I don't know about "most" surprising, but I've just been looking at the record of Asahikuni Masao who became ozeki in May 1976 and remained there for just over three years. Looking at his record from maezumo through it shows a few period where he just plateaued for a while, then would move up steadily before reaching another plateau. It took him a while to get away from upper sandanme and lower makushita (which was a lot deeper than now) and then he worked his way up through makushita for about three years after having actually cracked it. He then raced through juryo in two basho before hitting the lower makunouchi ranks and bounced around there, dropped back to juryo for a year and a half, bounced around makunouchi again, shot up to sekiwake for one basho and then settled in the joi-jin ranks (mostly) being made komusubi a couple of time but then dropping back. All of a sudden at 27 he puts two 11-4 back-to-back records up and goes from M4 to Komusubi to Sekiwake. He manages two kachikoshi at sekiwake and then puts in another two great results back-to-back 12-3 and 13-2, both jun-yusho, and he is suddenly ozeki. He remains there mostly with 8-7, 9-6 for the next three years or so.

So, if people had followed his career, or if any of you actually remember him, his rise to ozeki was extremely sudden on the back of quite a long career of yoyo-ing and then incremental banzuke climbing. I suspect him becoming Ozeki was a bit of a surprise.

[Asojima]

I don't know about "most" surprising, but I've just been looking at the record of Asahikuni Masao who became ozeki in May 1976 and remained there for just over three years.

He was active in a very competitive Makunouchi that was well loaded on the top end. I remember him as one of the strong competitors that you could always count on for a good match. The old guard ozekis were retiring, and Takanohana was the only mainstay ozeki going. He made his move during a transition period, and it was not a big surprise that he was the one to do it.

[Washuyama]

I don't know about "most" surprising, but I've just been looking at the record of Asahikuni Masao who became ozeki in May 1976 and remained there for just over three years.

He was active in a very competitive Makunouchi that was well loaded on the top end. I remember him as one of the strong competitors that you could always count on for a good match. The old guard ozekis were retiring, and Takanohana was the only mainstay ozeki going. He made his move during a transition period, and it was not a big surprise that he was the one to do it.

I used to LOVE watching Asahikuni (currrent Oshima). He was promoted to Ozeki soon after I started following sumo. Although he was one of the shortest rikishi of the time but, as you said, always had good matches. He was a very stable ozeki in an era of unstable ones (Mienoumi, Kaiketsu, Daiju). Like most smaller rikishi, he had to resort to numerous different kimarite and was, aside from Wajima, the best technician of the time.

Like alot of wrestlers, judging him on his records alone would do him a disservice. In fact my 'impression' of what an ozeki should be was based on Takanohana I and Asahikuni.

[Jonosuke]

As much as I liked him personally and is still fond of him, I think Takanonami was never an ozeki caliber rikishi.

He only had one trick and one trick only. He had no techniques to speak of and he was not especially all around powerful guy. He was powerful in one thing, a technique he mastered and had expertly performed.

But once he had an injury and he could no longer do it, he fell out rather dramatically.

[Chisaiyama]

And what about our Mickey? Probably nobody but the late moto Yokozuna Kotozakura ever really believed Kotomitsuki would make Ozeki. I always thought he might have the potential but never thought it would break through. I still question how long he will be able to keep turning in Ozeki level (10-5 or better) performances.

After watching him for so long as a perennial 8-6 Sanyaku ( with the occasional 9-6) I just never thought he could mount a successful Ozeki-tori.

Shows what I know I guess.

[Asashosakari]

And what about our Mickey? Probably nobody but the late moto Yokozuna Kotozakura ever really believed Kotomitsuki would make Ozeki.

In 2005 maybe, but Kotomitsuki did come in heralded as perhaps the best college rikishi ever (depending on how one views Kushimaumi's career). I'm pretty sure there were people who even attested him yokozuna potential back in 1999.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Asashosakari

[kaiguma]

I had just started following Sumo a few basho prior to Osh's promotion.

As a gaijin, I was drawn to him, but quite disappointed by his performance during his ozekitori basho.

He seemed awkward and clumsy, with wins that came from unstable positions and losses that looked humiliating. Yes, a few highlights thrown in there and you could make a reel that would flatter his vigor and unconventionl style. But, I remember feeling at the end of it, that he had been "promoted by numbers" alone. And so far, he has yet to challenge that notion. I believe he will have the chance...

As my first witnessed Ozeki promotion, he was much less convincing than Hakuho. For obvious reasons!

If Wakanosato were to suddenly regain his lost strength and bullet past sekiwake to join his long rival Mickey, he might just top this list! One can dream!

And for a future coming soon in a dimension near ours and hopefully concomitant, Ama will shock everyone but me it seems (Sign of approval...)

-

] edit [ forgotten mame

Edited November 8, 2007 by kaiguma

[Hananotaka]

And what about our Mickey? Probably nobody but the late moto Yokozuna Kotozakura ever really believed Kotomitsuki would make Ozeki.

In 2005 maybe, but Kotomitsuki did come in heralded as perhaps the best college rikishi ever (depending on how one views Kushimaumi's career). I'm pretty sure there were people who even attested him yokozuna potential back in 1999.

Indeed. Recently they had a short little memorial segment for Kotozakura on one of the news programs here. When they talked about Kotozakura's hopes for Mickey, they had a clip of Sadogatake oyakata (former Kotonowaka) talking about how he'd come to the stable with so many titles, and how people were saying, "He's going to be an Ozeki or a Yokozuna." I think the only Ozeki surprise about Mickey was how long it took it him to make it.

[Kotonosato]

I don't think we should be too surprised when a one-trick pony gets to Ozeki. Those with remarkable talent in many areas become yokozuna (Waka, Taka, Asa, Hakuho). Those with similar talents but too many injuries get to the ozeki rank but can't progress (Kaio, Musoyama).

Others with remarkable talent in a limited area can still make it to ozeki:

Dejima: freight train deashi.

Chiyotaikai: the best tsuppari ever.

Takanonami: lock-em-up morozashi.

Kotooshu: good throws and sheer height.

Konishiki: immovable objecthood.

Miyabiyama: ...I guess there are a few surprises.

If you lose your main skill, like Dejima, you get demoted. If you gain more you become yokozuna. (I don't remember Musashimaru's pre-zuna days, but wasn't he mostly oshi-sumo? Was it after he gained the mawashi power too that he was able to become yokozuna?)

Kotomitsuki has a bit of everything. When he puts it all together in the same basho he looks great.

[Jakusotsu]

Takanonami: lock-em-up morozashi.

I might be wrong, but I think Takanonami's grip style (kimedashi) doesn't really qualify as morozashi.

[Kintamayama]

If you lose your main skill, like Dejima, you get demoted.

Dejima lost his health. His legs are shot. Just take a look at him-a mummy would be put to shame by his bandages. End of story.

[Kotonosato]

If you lose your main skill, like Dejima, you get demoted.

Dejima lost his health. His legs are shot. Just take a look at him-a mummy would be put to shame by his bandages. End of story.

Yes, that's what I meant.

He was all about deashi. He simply can't do it the way he used to with those bad legs of his. It's really a shame. (Neener, neener...)

[Bealzbob]

If you lose your main skill, like Dejima, you get demoted.

Dejima lost his health. His legs are shot. Just take a look at him-a mummy would be put to shame by his bandages. End of story.

Yes, that's what I meant.

He was all about deashi. He simply can't do it the way he used to with those bad legs of his. It's really a shame. (Neener, neener...)

We are seeing a mini-revival in Kyushu. He hasn't done this well from this rank in a loooong time.