Mongolians, their character, their views...

[Arslan]

All I can say is you have it totally wrong. Maybe Coo-cook can explain to you better than me. You simply do not understand how it works.

Reading Coo-cook's posts where he is blaming Asa and not supporting Mongolians demonstrating against Asa's exile I came to the conclusion that by living abroad for (maybe) many years now he became whether too Nipponized or too Americanized (depends on where he is living). Seems that nowadays he understands Japanese better than Mongolians.

[Coo-cook]

All I can say is you have it totally wrong. Maybe Coo-cook can explain to you better than me. You simply do not understand how it works.

Reading Coo-cook's posts where he is blaming Asa and not supporting Mongolians demonstrating against Asa's exile I came to the conclusion that by living abroad for (maybe) many years now he became whether too Nipponized or too Americanized (depends on where he is living). Seems that nowadays he understands Japanese better than Mongolians.

No,...I didn't blame Asa for anything....I just called demonstrators in Mongolia stupid.......Sorry, if you are one of them.

I should've called you "confused" .....or better as "non-Japanized Reformer?" ......or Sumo Democrat ?......Help me here,Arslan....how I should've called you?

[Arslan]

No,...I didn't blame Asa for anything....I just called demonstrators in Mongolia stupid.......Sorry, if you are one of them.

I should've called you "confused" .....or better as "non-Japanized Reformer?" ......or Sumo Democrat ?......Help me here,Arslan....how I should've called you?

According to you if you are supporting the one who is in trouble means being

[Arslan]

The way you said it sounds like you're jealous.

Why should I be jealous? The Irish took control of the world years ago. We just didn't bother telling all the conquered peoples what had happened so as to make the trasition as smooth as possible.

"The protocols of the auld lads from Kerry"

Forgive me my ignorance but I never heard anything about Irish taking control of the world. Probably the world they took was a bit smaller than Mongolian Empire in 13th century.

[Arslan]

We just didn't bother telling all the conquered peoples what had happened so as to make the trasition as smooth as possible.

Forgive me my ignorance but I never heard anything about Irish taking control of the world.

Your ignorance is forgiven because you have just proven my point.

I'm sure the penny will drop eventually.

Which point you mean Nishinoshima? and What penny you expected to drop eventually?

[Arslan]

Which point you mean Nishinoshima?

The "whats the point" point in my pointed reply.

What penny you expected to drop eventually?

A shinny new one.

Sounds quite pointless though.

A shinny new one expected to drop where?

[obinishiki]

It has gotten really bizarre. I like that. (Clapping wildly...) (Jumping in ecstasy...) (Bouncing of excitement...)

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

"He went straight to sleep. He was not interviewed (medically). I can't say he is any better", said Dr. Yoshida after hearing from Dr. Takagi regarding Asashouryuu's state today. Asa is at a local hotel. The plan is to continue treatment today. "I think he has been given sleeping pills and tranquilizers. I heard the Yokozuna said things like 'I'm scared' ", added Dr. Yoshida.

Takasago Oyakata: "I have no contact with him".

yup, It is indeed scary to be in such place- full of intrigue, hostility. Not knowing turn of tide, not knowing whoom to trust.

Only way out is to come back home-Mongolia.

[Coo-cook]

yup, It is indeed scary to be in such place- full of intrigue, hostility. Not knowing turn of tide, not knowing whoom to trust.

Only way out is to come back home-Mongolia.

I have a question for you sir. Are you sure Asashoryu's behaviour and weakness he shows is welcomed in your Mongolia? Are you sure there aren't a mass of Mongolians thinking "What a wimp our champion turned out to be..he is a disgrace to Mongolian warriors"? Mongolia doesn't even have psychiatrists really ( at least so was commented in one post) so they probably consider head cases just in need to "get a hold of themselves". Are you saying that Mongolian press and people welcome him home with open arms and say "Oh the bad JApanese treated you so badly! Here you are loved unconditionally. Now here is a surprise...your mom made you a meal!! Come eat Dorj!!!!!"?

I wonder about that. He must be popular in Mongolia but according to rumours he is not nearly as popular as Shuzan for example. He must have done good for economically poor Mongolia by donating horses and whatever so lot of gratitude there too but still, is it really so that Asashoryu's behaviour hasn't made him lose a lot of fans in Mongolia?

Since you like an honest talk and calling us poor everytime you speak about Mongolia, how about I call you an arrogant racist Finnish pig like many of you are in reality.....How about that, you Finnish racist pig ?...Yeah.... Let us be so honest and straight forward with each other.Huh?

Or, shall I call you a poor minded Finn, who didn't come out of his "orange growing" woods.

OK.OK...I wont feed your genitalia talking (maybe sadistic thinking) minds. (A Mongolian psychiatrical analysis of you. Maybe wrong, but very honest analysis. You may have a tendency of sadism.)

Actually, I thought we'd discuss about Sumo here and not call each other "poor","racist" ....so on, although some facts might be very true at moment.

On Asashoryu question you asked: Of course, there are many Mongolians who don't like the way Asashoryu is behaving,...but, not liking Asashoryu's behavior doesn't mean that people will not welcome him or hate him. It's not a "black and white" thing you want see, Kaikitsune.

Maybe very few people will welcome him at the airport and a very few will demontrate for him somewhere. Since he hasn't done anything damaging to Mongolia the majority of Mongolians wouldn't really bother Asa and his whereabouts.

And, we don't have that "paparazzi" types.None.

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Since you like an honest talk and calling us poor everytime you speak about Mongolia, how about I call you an arrogant racist Finnish pig like many of you are in reality.....How about that, you Finnish racist pig ?...Yeah.... Let us be so honest and straight forward with each other.Huh?

Or, shall I call you a poor minded Finn, who didn't come out of his "orange growing" woods.

OK.OK...I wont feed your genitalia talking (maybe sadistic thinking) minds. (A Mongolian psychiatrical analysis of you. Maybe wrong, but very honest analysis. You may have a tendency of sadism.)

Actually, I thought we'd discuss about Sumo here and not call each other "poor","racist" ....so on, although some facts might be very true at moment.

On Asashoryu question you asked: Of course, there are many Mongolians who don't like the way Asashoryu is behaving,...but, not liking Asashoryu's behavior doesn't mean that people will not welcome him or hate him. It's not a "black and white" thing you want see, Kaikitsune.

Maybe very few people will welcome him at the airport and a very few will demontrate for him somewhere. Since he hasn't done anything damaging to Mongolia the majority of Mongolians wouldn't really bother Asa and his whereabouts.

And, we don't have that "paparazzi" types.None.

What an oddly divided reply. Is it a racist comment to say Mongolia is poor?? Was I mocking Mongolia by saying that? It IS poor country economically so the donations have a point. What is so insulting in that comment of mine? Why does it make me a poor minded Finn to say that? Do you understand the word "poor" in different way? Feed my genitalia talking is recommended! There are still many interetsing aspects in this area of medicine and life. Sadism isn't exactly related to this but evidently you have more expertise in sadism so I respect your opinion that there may be sadistic component in my genitalia talk.

There is no black and white in this Shoryu in Mongolia thing. The whole point was that there are bound to be many Mongolians who have lost some respect they had for Shoryu. Never have I insinuated that it is black and white. You drew than conclusion in your angry state of mind. Still I wonder about the impact Shoryu's behaviour has had in Mongolia. He, Hakuho, Ama and many other MOngolians have actuallty highlighted how tough and hungry fellows come from Mongolia so they have brought Mongolia in spotlight in good way.

[slt]

Since you like an honest talk and calling us poor everytime you speak about Mongolia, how about I call you an arrogant racist Finnish pig like many of you are in reality.....How about that, you Finnish racist pig ?...Yeah.... Let us be so honest and straight forward with each other.Huh?

Or, shall I call you a poor minded Finn, who didn't come out of his "orange growing" woods.

This is a pretty strange reply to Kaikitsune's post - I think you must have misunderstood his comments, because it doesn't seem to me there was anything racist or offensive about what he wrote. The basic idea was that, probably, not everyone in Mongolia appreciates Asashoryu's behavior. Different people obviously have different opinions, and the same is true in every country. The fact that Mongolia is poor wasn't meant as an insult (at least by my way of reading it) ; all he said was that a lot of people in Mongolia probably had benefits from Asashoryu's success and generosity, and might have a positive image of him, but that many others might feel that he is acting weak and showing a bad image.

It seems much more relaxing to me to take people's comments in a positive light, rather than trying to see if they're aiming to offend someone.

---

That aside, back to the point ; Jonosuke - are the two "psychiatrists" you're referring to simply commenting on those newspapers, or are they actually involved in "examining" Asa ? (the article in Moti's link must be in Japanese, I'm getting ghost letters on the page)

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

As Mongolian. I also can answer the question. My answer maybe different, it is still Mongolian answer. I try reflect from many comments on online mongolian media.

I have a question for you sir. Are you sure Asashoryu's behaviour and weakness he shows is welcomed in your Mongolia?

I am sure, I can say. He is more than welcome for his achievements. Mongolians will not pay any attention to this "small incident". We don't expect perfection in any person, we tend to see positive side/achievment of person. Minor mistakes are totally ignored/ avoided to mention. His behaviour is just like me and any other Mongolian and it is very understandable. That punishment due to crime is incident is acceptable, but its way imposing it, the way of trying humilate more is completely unacceptable.

Normal non-japanese reaction to "housearrest" is what the fouck is it. who the heck is NSC?

Are you sure there aren't a mass of Mongolians thinking "What a wimp our champion turned out to be..he is a disgrace to Mongolian warriors"?

I am sure, thousand time I can say. He is welcome back home. Some say he is wimp or disgrace, majority will be happy that s mongolian son come back home.

Unlike other culture, Mongolians don't look for small mistakes to blacken good deeds. When I was child, I did not like one wrestler and always wonder about one incident that was about a good wrestler became prisoner for his crime which was serious he got many years in jail. But he was allowed to wrestle during the local Naadam. Yes he was bad guy, but people respected him as Champion and he passed over as Champion. Now as an adult, I find it as what a gracious behaviour from local people.

Mongolia doesn't even have psychiatrists really ( at least so was commented in one post) so they probably consider head cases just in need to "get a hold of themselves".

There are psychiatrists in Mongolia, educated in Europe

Here is interview of Mongolian doctor N. Oryol. teacher of Psychiatric Health Department of University of Medical Science (of Mongolia)

Asahi TV interviewed him by mobile telephone.

Questions were smiliar like yours

Q- Is there any facility for psychiatric patients?

Answer:- Mongolia had independant psychiatric clinic (facility). In the end 2001, we had visitor from Japan who was professor Shinfuku of Kobe (City) University. Now this clinic is expanded as National Center of (Psychiatry) Psychiatric Health. We wrote a article named " History of Department of Psychiatry and its present situation and future opientation". Article was published in a japanese journal of Study of Psychiatry, # 7-2002. So read those materials

Q- Is there any patients in Mongolia similarly diagnosed like (Asa}? We ask it because we imagine that people of Mongolia has less stress.

Answer:- We have psychiatric patients

Q- Asashoryu is punished (2 basho ban, 30% deduction). What is the chance that the person became sick (psychiatrically )?

Answer:- Probably it was unexpected punishment, so it caused shock. Also the punishment is conflicting to a person's personal value. Those factors may cause. I am talking about this in general, not individual person (Asa). As a doctor, I refuse to say any diagnosis when I did not personally check the patient (Asa). I can not say about The Champion on his psychiatric condition.

Actually, any doctor should not declare about medical condition/ history of patient in public through media. That is our professional ethic as a doctor. But in Japan, why is it announced to public (by media) ?

I find it "bad"

Q- If NSC allow the Champion go home (Mongolia), is it possible for for you (mongolian medical facilities) to heal him? What kind of medication will you recommend? Is there any traditional methods

Answer:- If diagnosis of Japanese doctors is correct, we will use medication of European way and of course in combination of traditional ways. Maybe recovering in the social environment is suitable for the Champion like familiar environment of his homeland (birthplace), change of air, interaction with people and animal( horse riding). Basically let him be in his favorite environment, not confining into limitedl space. ( forced condition)

(In Mongolia) our wrestlers usually have their own mentors, (mostly buddhist monks). Monks are not trainer, but advisor, spiritual path finder(correctors). And wrestlers respect them, mentors word is quite influentual. This methods are well practiced in Europe and there are many practicioners.

Again, here I am just answering your questions as a doctor. Since I did not check the Champion, I can not recommend anything

Q- Is there psychiatric patients from Mongolians who study or work in Japan?

Answer:- Not only from Japan, there are few people who were suffered (psychiatrically) in abroad and came back and healed. Even I have student who study about Influence of immigration ( migration) on mental health :)

http://www.mongolnews.info/index.php?modul...940ad725d9b8a48

Are you saying that Mongolian press and people welcome him home with open arms and say "Oh the bad JApanese treated you so badly! Here you are loved unconditionally. Now here is a surprise...your mom made you a meal!! Come eat Dorj!!!!!"?

Many people receive him exactly as you have written. People will welcome him certainly with some reprimand. Also "missing mom's meal", "missing his mother" is not associated with weakness in Mongolian mentality. It actually highlights humanity/ kindness of the person. It even goes hand in hand with patriotism. Even Chinggis Khaan was obeying to his mom only .

I wonder about that. He must be popular in Mongolia but according to rumours he is not nearly as popular as Shuzan for example.

This incident made more famious than ever. People or media start calling him as "son of people (of course Mongolian)"

As I remember, when there were conflict between Shuzan and Asa, most people ( public opinion and media) were on Shuzan's side. Now thanks to this incident he is more positively publisized in Mongolian media. If he get over this and stand up again, after some years you might hear MP Asashoryu in Mongolia .

I bet for many foreign sumo wrestlers, Sumo is just beginning of their life time adventure.

He must have done good for economically poor Mongolia by donating horses and whatever so lot of gratitude there too but still, is it really so that Asashoryu's behaviour hasn't made him lose a lot of fans in Mongolia?

No, no . He did not do anything economically good for "poor" Mongolia. Of course he and his foundation did some charity work for some people. Asashoryu did nothing against Mongolia or Mongolian people, even he did not do anything bad against Japan or Japanese people. He said " I love Japan and Japanese people". That is enough. What else can be said. Idea of "FAN" is not really exist like in other country. So there no question of lose fan

If he'll make it back to Mongolia. I AM READY TO BE HIS FAN

What is rich or what is poor is still an question.

Btw: - Personally I am very happy to grow up in "poor" Mongolia than rich Japan or America and facilitate my children to grow up in Mongolia. Because of our "poorness" our sons are strong and eager to achieve.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Kintamayama]

Since you like an honest talk and calling us poor everytime you speak about Mongolia, how about I call you an arrogant racist Finnish pig like many of you are in reality..

Many of us are Finnish racist pigs??

[Arslan]

I have a question for you sir. Are you sure Asashoryu's behaviour and weakness he shows is welcomed in your Mongolia? Are you sure there aren't a mass of Mongolians thinking "What a wimp our champion turned out to be..he is a disgrace to Mongolian warriors"? Mongolia doesn't even have psychiatrists really ( at least so was commented in one post) so they probably consider head cases just in need to "get a hold of themselves". Are you saying that Mongolian press and people welcome him home with open arms and say "Oh the bad JApanese treated you so badly! Here you are loved unconditionally. Now here is a surprise...your mom made you a meal!! Come eat Dorj!!!!!"?

I wonder about that. He must be popular in Mongolia but according to rumours he is not nearly as popular as Shuzan for example. He must have done good for economically poor Mongolia by donating horses and whatever so lot of gratitude there too but still, is it really so that Asashoryu's behaviour hasn't made him lose a lot of fans in Mongolia?

To answer your question, Asa is still very popular in Mongolia and even more after cruel Japanese made him suffer so much. (No, no, no...) I won

[Jonosuke]

Oh really, is he softened? (No, no, no...) I am sure now when they made Asa to have a nervous breakdown

If I didn't know better, I didn't think you were talking about a yokozuna.

When the directors met and talked about the suspension, could you have expected Asashoryu to have a "nervous breakdown"? He looked mighty fine to everyone when he returned from Mongolia. It must came as a shock to everyone concerned to see him in that state because that was totally unlike his character.

If you are a manager of company or teacher of school and if you come across your best student breaking one of the rules, you still hand down a certain punishment regardless of how you feel about him personally. It is really nothing personal. It is a matter of upholding the principles you have.

Just because he was vocal against Asashoryu's conduct, it really does not mean he dislikes Asashoryu. I'd like to hear from anyone who can even come up with something remotely critical about Asashoryu from Takadagawa oyakata prior to this incident.

In my view you have really denigrated a fine upstanding oyakata without any shred of evidence. He is one of the few oyakatas without any Ichimon concern to see Asashoryu and in fact he is going out of his way to help the yokozuna out of the current situation because he cares. He could have as easily stayed out of all this mess and no one would accuse him of anything.

I appreciate if you don't have any evidence to back up your claims, I'd like you to retract them.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

It is too early to say Asa made his way back to Mongolia.Also He should be very careful about any trap which may be set by other side.

[Jonosuke]

It is too early to say Asa made his way back to Mongolia.Also He should be very careful about any trap which may be set by other side.

I guess they couldn't get him with all the traps they set in Japan so they are now letting him go back to Mongolia where more traps are set like in a charity soccer game.

Since you already stated that any wandering Japanese would be sniffed out immediately by the natives, I imagine the new traps are being set by barbarians roaming in Mongolia.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

It is too early to say Asa made his way back to Mongolia.Also He should be very careful about any trap which may be set by other side.

I guess they couldn't get him with all the traps they set in Japan so they are now letting him go back to Mongolia where more traps are set like in a charity soccer game.

Since you already stated that any wandering Japanese would be sniffed out immediately by the natives, I imagine the new traps are being set by barbarians roaming in Mongolia.

willl seeee

[Peterao]

It is too early to say Asa made his way back to Mongolia.Also He should be very careful about any trap which may be set by other side.

I guess they couldn't get him with all the traps they set in Japan so they are now letting him go back to Mongolia where more traps are set like in a charity soccer game.

Since you already stated that any wandering Japanese would be sniffed out immediately by the natives, I imagine the new traps are being set by barbarians roaming in Mongolia.

I'm gonna get you Mongowians if ids da lasd ding I dooooooo!

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

You see they still did not decide yet, coming up some reasons for example like this one

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/sports/20070826TDY21010.htm

Hochi Shimbun quoted an association source saying, "the yokozuna will have to present himself to the board before they can let him leave," apparently putting plans to leave on hold.

Asa should not present himself before them. This may be a "TRAP (Nodding yes...)" . let's see how nippon way works

Edited August 26, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[AOZORA]

Since you like an honest talk and calling us poor everytime you speak about Mongolia, how about I call you an arrogant racist Finnish pig like many of you are in reality.....How about that, you Finnish racist pig ?...Yeah.... Let us be so honest and straight forward with each other.Huh?

Or, shall I call you a poor minded Finn, who didn't come out of his "orange growing" woods.

OK.OK...I wont feed your genitalia talking (maybe sadistic thinking) minds. (A Mongolian psychiatrical analysis of you. Maybe wrong, but very honest analysis. You may have a tendency of sadism.)

Actually, I thought we'd discuss about Sumo here and not call each other "poor","racist" ....so on, although some facts might be very true at moment.

On Asashoryu question you asked: Of course, there are many Mongolians who don't like the way Asashoryu is behaving,...but, not liking Asashoryu's behavior doesn't mean that people will not welcome him or hate him. It's not a "black and white" thing you want see, Kaikitsune.

Maybe very few people will welcome him at the airport and a very few will demontrate for him somewhere. Since he hasn't done anything damaging to Mongolia the majority of Mongolians wouldn't really bother Asa and his whereabouts.

And, we don't have that "paparazzi" types.None.

I know I am liitle late on this topic, but..

Calm down Coo-Cook. I understand your feeling. Being poor and experiencing hardness of being poor country citizen, we become too sensitive to the word "poor". I am not sure about Kakitsune's other "racist" comments about Mongolia, but at least this time I do not see any offensive comment about Mongolia. Let's just talk about Sumo here.

As a same Mongolian, My point is little strict to "My hero" this time. He is not being punished for playing soccer (as most Mongolians think) but for wagging off his duty. Past misbehaviours like fighting with Shoes-on etc might have weigtht in this punishment too.

At least I do not want him to show such mental weakness, instead I would like to see him to apologize for all sumo fans and take 3 yushos in row from next year. (Nodding yes...)

Edited August 26, 2007 by AOZORA