Mongolians, their character, their views...

[Coo-cook]

It was in todays newspapers.

Now I see.

http://www.mongolnews.info/index.php?modul...ew&id=19930

It says:- Yesterday a demonstration was organised by civil movements like "Reform" and "Democratic Union" in front of Embassy of Japan. Demonstrators started at 11AM blowing whistle, holding flag which says " Asashoryu Akinori- symbol of friendship"., they handed over Letter to Japanese Embassy. Aim of demonstration is voice of Mongolian people to be heard, to express wish of Mongolian people and to support Asashoryu. Demonstrators find punishment by NSC is inhumane (house arrest), discriminatory (punishment imposed on Asasshoryu ( as foreign) compare to solution of Kitonafuji case ). Basically demonstrators demanded NSC to reconsider their decision and requested Embassy, their letter to be transfered to NSC.

Official of Japanese Embassy responded to demonstrators. "(I) don't know how to respond your request/demand. Embassy of Japan handles affair between the governments. Anyway your letter will be tranfered to NSC"

Also article mentioned about one sided information on Japanese media

:-)

It's just ridiculous. ....." voice of Mongolian people to be heard", "express the wish of Mongolian people".....Wow.....

Some 40 stupid modern day Sharikovs (by Bulgakov) ....are they representing "Mongolian people"?

So called "Reformers" and "Democratic Unions", have they got nothing better to do ? ...How about demonstrating against rampant political corruption and bribes in Mongolia ?

(Sorry, for being off-topic.)

[Blue_Wolf]

Same feeling here, Coo-cook.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

It's just ridiculous. ....." voice of Mongolian people to be heard", "express the wish of Mongolian people".....Wow.....

Some 40 stupid modern day Sharikovs (by Bulgakov) ....are they representing "Mongolian people"?

So called "Reformers" and "Democratic Unions", have they got nothing better to do ? ...How about demonstrating against rampant political corruption and bribes in Mongolia ?

(Sorry, for being off-topic.)

Of course, they are representing people of Mongolia as same as you are. They are doing their job, demonstrating against rampant political corruption and bribes in Mongolia. Indecent handling of Asashoryu Soccer incident is just one of their (Mongolian people's) concern as long as Asashoryu citizen of Mongolia.

Jich:- Your use of some word here is only reflection of your complex

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Same feeling here, Coo-cook.

Blue Wolf You are not Wolf. wolves ahave always thier own mind

Edited August 17, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Agree 99.9%.

But, I have 0.1% disagreement with you, Shomishuu.

I think majority of people of nowadays Japan and Mongolia are not that "truly Japanese" or "truly Mongolian" like some media or forum members (like me) want to describe them.

Most of their thinking is not feudalistic, conservative, backward, or nationalistic ....and I don't think Kyokutenho's marriage and Hakuho's wife are that serious "topic" in Mongolia,...and I don't think Japanese are sending a hidden message to Asashoryu for his retirement and Japanese are seriously offended by his "non-Japanese" antiques (You didn't say those things, of course).

So, everything is not over yet. There are lots of possibilities Asa can make a comeback ( I mean his reputation and acceptance in Japan).

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well, only conclusion is that you have complex :-) . man. you don't need to try to save face. why you worry so much , enjoy life :-D

Edited August 17, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Agree 99.9%.

But, I have 0.1% disagreement with you, Shomishuu. ).

It is flattering

I think majority of people of nowadays Japan and Mongolia are not that "truly Japanese" or "truly Mongolian" like some media or forum members (like me) want to describe them. ).

"true Japanese"- They count all your faults and mistake. While they are smiling , they harbouri supressed revenge waiting for right moment to kill you. Nothing ( even friendship, merit, respect) is guaranteed there. It needs constant maintanence. Little things matters.

"true Mongolian"- non-complicated easy going people. Many things are taken as guaranteed. Champion is always Champion, even the Champion goes really bad- drunkard or criminal. Little thing are not important at all, as long as Achievment is done.

Very bad at handling betrayal, specially from most trusted, loved ones. Asashoryu is very similar to that. All his interviews, he expresses his love for Japan, Japanese people and sumo which made him THE MAN famious. Suddenly they have turned on him, over his usual mistake which was not big issue before. Most indecent way of Japanese Media, some people, NSC is that timing of this scandal and their attempt to blacken all his achiievments. Basically they (Japan media, NSC) said we don't need you now, because we have another Yokozuna. That is betrayel , treacherious act.

Another difference is that:- Mongolians don't imagine to beat a person who is already down. They help the person get up or hopeless one is left alone with their honour. For Japanese , seems like, they want to beat more and more, to the point that lost person never recover. Is it Confusian mind set- Beat the dog, if it fall into water or If your head is over the crowd, sooner or later it wil be chopped.

Most of their thinking is not feudalistic, conservative, backward, or nationalistic ....and I don't think Kyokutenho's marriage and Hakuho's wife are that serious "topic" in Mongolia,...and I don't think Japanese are sending a hidden message to Asashoryu for his retirement and Japanese are seriously offended by his "non-Japanese" antiques (You didn't say those things, of course).

So, everything is not over yet. There are lots of possibilities Asa can make a comeback ( I mean his reputation and acceptance in Japan).

japan wives are of course an issue. What is the reall issue? Time will show. If they should live in Mongolia, then it is not an issue.

Interesting to see, Mongol sumo wrestlers are marry before they become successful. Japanese are married mostly when they are successful. as if now ( when they successful) they deserve wife.

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It is really interesting observe how different are these cultures. Sometime, I think Asashoryu incident is clash of different dimension of VALUE

[Otokonoyama]

"true Japanese"- They count all your faults and mistake. While they are smiling , they harbouri supressed revenge waiting for right moment to kill you. Nothing ( even friendship, merit, respect) is guaranteed there. It needs constant maintanence. Little things matters.

"true Mongolian"- non-complicated easy going people. Many things are taken as guaranteed. Champion is always Champion, even the Champion goes really bad- drunkard or criminal. Little thing are not important at all, as long as Achievment is done.

My reply is going off-topic, but your response reminded me of a Ryukaze post a while ago, and is interesting to me. In the USA, for example, a one-time champion is set-for-life. Take Rulon Gardner. Olympic champ once, set-for-life. Never acheived much before or since. In fact, has had a sting of mishaps that were all his own fault after the Olympics, but is held up by the public as a living example of excellence. The attitude elsewhere seems to be a little different. Take the man he beat, for example. This man was a true champion, who trained and lived like he fought...hard. And was on top consistently for around a decade. That all reminds me of sumo. To be a yokozuna you have to be on top consistently, for the long haul. No hirumaku yusho and then you are god forever. Can you do it again? And consistently? There is a world of difference there...

[Kotonosato]

Another difference is that:- Mongolians don't imagine to beat a person who is already down. They help the person get up or hopeless one is left alone with their honour.

What about all the extra shoves Asashoryu loves to do after he's already won the bout? I guess there's nothing better than to be left with one's honour and a 'pink-belly'.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

What about all the extra shoves Asashoryu loves to do after he's already won the bout? I guess there's nothing better than to be left with one's honour and a 'pink-belly'.

I love that part. yeah you will get it always wrong. There is nothing malicious about tht , I don't see any humilating act on that. It is was pure fight on the stage and its consequences.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

So it was "easy-going" Mongolian people who conquered the largest contiguous empire in history?

In the aforementioned empire any city that didn't surrender before a battle would have all the inhabitants slaughtered afterwards.

I can rant long and long on those history. I think you can read yourself, You'll find the answer in many historical books.

[Coo-cook]

"true Mongolian"- non-complicated easy going people.

So it was "easy-going" Mongolian people who conquered the largest contiguous empire in history?

Another difference is that:- Mongolians don't imagine to beat a person who is already down. They help the person get up or hopeless one is left alone with their honour.

In the aforementioned empire any city that didn't surrender before a battle would have all the inhabitants slaughtered afterwards.

Actually, I agree with Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj that we Mongolians are very "easy-going" people. Most foreigners visited Mongolia would confirm that. Just go there Nishinoshima if you want, you will see.

Also, that stereotypic descriptions of Mongolian brutality which comes from many ancient Chinese, Arabic and Western literatures are way out of proportion.. .....like today's media describing Asashoryu.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Coo-cook

[Coo-cook]

Another difference is that:- Mongolians don't imagine to beat a person who is already down. They help the person get up or hopeless one is left alone with their honour.

What about all the extra shoves Asashoryu loves to do after he's already won the bout? I guess there's nothing better than to be left with one's honour and a 'pink-belly'.

Kotonosato,

Have you seen similar behaviors from other Mongolian wrestlers? Yes ?

Sometimes, I wonder whether we are talking about the Mongolians in general or about Asa.

[Kintamayama]

[Also, that stereotypic descriptions of Mongolian brutality which comes from many ancient Chinese, Arabic and Western literatures are way out of proportion.. .....like today's media describing Asashoryu.

As someone who occasionally does the translating from Japanese media here, I am quite surprised that some people think the media are in any way out to "get" Asashouryuu. They are for the most part just reporting from what they hear from the doctors/Takasago/NSK, since none of them have an independent source that knows squat. Usually no stand for or against is taken. If anything, the underlying subtext is supportive of Asa. There are editorials that agree with the severity of the punishment, and there are those that don't. The articles usually end with a hope that Asa will soon return or along those lines.

So let's stop this "Japanese media is out to crush Asashouryuu" tirade, because it simply is not true.

[Coo-cook]

Agree 99.9%.

But, I have 0.1% disagreement with you, Shomishuu.

I think majority of people of nowadays Japan and Mongolia are not that "truly Japanese" or "truly Mongolian" like some media or forum members (like me) want to describe them.

Most of their thinking is not feudalistic, conservative, backward, or nationalistic ....and I don't think Kyokutenho's marriage and Hakuho's wife are that serious "topic" in Mongolia,...and I don't think Japanese are sending a hidden message to Asashoryu for his retirement and Japanese are seriously offended by his "non-Japanese" antiques (You didn't say those things, of course).

So, everything is not over yet. There are lots of possibilities Asa can make a comeback ( I mean his reputation and acceptance in Japan).

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well, only conclusion is that you have complex :-) . man. you don't need to try to save face. why you worry so much , enjoy life (Holiday feeling...)

Hey, hey,.....who is worrying so much and politicizing things, here ? Me or you?

Remember, we are talking about Sumo, which apparently most Japanese are not interested in anymore...... and a bunch of 40 Mongolians(including you) are caring and worrying so much that questioning Mongolian -Japanese relationships. So laughable.

I want give you the same advice you gave me "enjoy life"..... or go demonstrate.

[Coo-cook]

[Also, that stereotypic descriptions of Mongolian brutality which comes from many ancient Chinese, Arabic and Western literatures are way out of proportion.. .....like today's media describing Asashoryu.

As someone who occasionally does the translating from Japanese media here, I am quite surprised that some people think the media are in any way out to "get" Asashouryuu. They are for the most part just reporting from what they hear from the doctors/Takasago/NSK, since none of them have an independent source that knows squat. Usually no stand for or against is taken. If anything, the underlying subtext is supportive of Asa. There are editorials that agree with the severity of the punishment, and there are those that don't. The articles usually end with a hope that Asa will soon return or along those lines.

So let's stop this "Japanese media is out to crush Asashouryuu" tirade, because it simply is not true.

Oh, I'm sure Japanese media is out to crush Asashoryu..... He is one of the hot selling items for them right now, I guess.

(Some of them even wont shy making false allegations to sell their news)

[Kotonosato]

Another difference is that:- Mongolians don't imagine to beat a person who is already down. They help the person get up or hopeless one is left alone with their honour.

What about all the extra shoves Asashoryu loves to do after he's already won the bout? I guess there's nothing better than to be left with one's honour and a 'pink-belly'.

Kotonosato,

Have you seen similar behaviors from other Mongolian wrestlers? Yes ?

Sometimes, I wonder whether we are talking about the Mongolians in general or about Asa.

Hi Coo-cook,

You're quite right. In no way did I intend to generalize to all Mongolians, or even to all Mongolian rikishi. Ikh had brought up Mongolian history, but I was making a point about Asashoryu's behaviour only.

You can see by my avatar who my favourite rikishi is. In fact, I'd have to say that I enjoy the sumo of all the Mongolian rikishi (including Asashoryu!).

As for the Mongolian people, I'm not sure I've ever met any in person besides the rikishi and the people sitting around me at the Kokugikan. I'm sure, though, that they believe in fair play, justice, and honour like most of us do.

I'm not happy with Asashoryu's behaviour. My apologies if it sounded as if I was generalizing to all Mongolians.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Hey, hey,.....who is worrying so much and politicizing things, here ? Me or you?

Remember, we are talking about Sumo, which apparently most Japanese are not interested in anymore...... and a bunch of 40 Mongolians(including you) are caring and worrying so much that questioning Mongolian -Japanese relationships. So laughable.

I want give you the same advice you gave me "enjoy life"..... or go demonstrate.

I don't politicize anything. It is you are the one who is exagerating. They just have just expressed their opinion which is backed by many others. And their voices were heard. They demanded full comprehensive report/invstigation on Asashoryu case to be shown. As many others noticed there is actually nothing else prove Asa's "crime" except few second video clip. Everyone knows that they are hearing only one sided story.

People did not go out to defend Asa when he did obvoisly bad ( breaking mirror) thing. Becuase it was HIS FAULT. This time it is different, it is the time express your own opinion.

Everybody has their own way of defending own countryman. They have entitled for their action which is only way they could do. And you are entitled your opinion. But your use of word "Stupid" and "Sharikov" from russian novel for the people is making me to question your background. Are you one of those who happily joins russians/others to put down your country/ and your countrymen?

So anyway apparently we both enjoy life, keep going man.

Asashoryi is your Hero also. Don't be ashamed of your own Hero.

For many he is the HERO that

Asashoryu is THE REAL HERO

Edited August 18, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Kintamayama]

Japan needs to have its own Yokozuna. Mongolia needs to have its own sons come back. Following his examples thousand of youth should return HOME. East or West, Home is best.

Do you live in Mongolia?

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Japan needs to have its own Yokozuna. Mongolia needs to have its own sons come back. Following his examples thousand of youth should return HOME. East or West, Home is best.

Do you live in Mongolia?

for sure, I will. I wish to stand in front of Asa's home and sing some Mongolian songs :-) and cheer him up.

I wonder- What the mongolian students in Japan or others doing there. Are they so intimidated or ashamed ? But I don't know what is on the ground.

[Kintamayama]

Japan needs to have its own Yokozuna. Mongolia needs to have its own sons come back. Following his examples thousand of youth should return HOME. East or West, Home is best.

Do you live in Mongolia?

for sure, I will.

I will? So you don't actually live in Mongolia at the moment??

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj]

Japan needs to have its own Yokozuna. Mongolia needs to have its own sons come back. Following his examples thousand of youth should return HOME. East or West, Home is best.

Do you live in Mongolia?

for sure, I will.

I will? So you don't actually live in Mongolia at the moment??

yes, at the moment.

Can you do it again? And consistently? There is a world of difference there...

Asashoryu can do it again and again. He can do it "consistently". It was clear that next few years THE CHAMPION will be dominant guy.

Wnere is award? For Asashoryu, award is no longer only money or some title. He needed simple awards of human touch of little respect, "not respect that attached to Yokonzuna title" . That is why everytime he go to Mongolia where nobody bothered him, where he can relax.

Asashoryu is not like Kyokoshuzan who had "cunning streak", Shu knew what to do with "Japanese Way", when to win, when to stop.

Asashoryu is not like Hakuho who has image of "good boy" hopeful of becoming soft-eared son-in-law. Now Hakuho learned that he doesn't need to stick out his head over the crowd. Kyokotenho is ....and Japanese Sumo wrestlers are very Japanese.

Asashoryu is different. That is why he is the WINNER. He has winning spirit which followed by winner's attitude.

When he win easily, he smiles at the loser, like you need some more training. When he win hard, he does shed a tear of happiness, taste of hard work/training. He loses he wonders a second like what? what happened, I supposed to win. Yes He is born to be winner in wrestling. Key to this is He has that winning attitude which made japanese mad or japanese did not understand.

Difference is here, other side is using indecent methods to beat THE CHAMPION

Asashoryu , as a sumo wrestler/ employee of NCS did his job far excellent (high quality work). So he was given a title Yokozuna by NCS. But NCS did not properly instructed/trained Asashoryu to those rituals/ prohibition that attached to Yokozuna title. Asashoryu did not ask for title, it was given to him. It was not Asashoryu's job to be PRIME EXAMPLE for Japanese people / and learn/or remember every little thing/ritual/prohibition that attached to the title. It is the job of NSC/ stable master to provide Asa, full time teacher/imagemaker.

#1 wrestler Asashoryu has to worry about only what made him #1, that is wrestling and winning. Rest is job of NSC/ Stable master/whoever in Asa's team to create examplary image of Yokozuna.

They supposed to defend their own creation. But they have betrayed him. What kind of employer are they? In order to trying save their unworthy skin, they blamed #1 guy for their own faulty job. If they (NCS/Stable master) don't take responisibility of their failure, is it only Asashoryu's responsibiliy to bear all the burden of Sumo? In fact he has carried all the burden and attention of failing sumo alone last several years. But award was betrayal. Yokozuna title was one big paper hat that only burns so easily, not helmet.

Where is that Jungyo dept who has blown the case out of scale? oh yes Jungyo director Oshima Oyakata who has personal issue with Asashoryu. Asa arrived Japan before Jungyo starts. Jungyo has declared that Jungyo dept does not need HIM that left no chance for Asa to apologize and participate Jungyo.

They were quick punish. Suddenly they become very slow. Everyone is on holiday. Everyone escapes.

It is even clear now that they wanted to break Asa.

Now we have to wait and see if they succeeded to break the spirit of THE CHAMPION

Edited August 18, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Kintamayama]

Japan needs to have its own Yokozuna. Mongolia needs to have its own sons come back. Following his examples thousand of youth should return HOME. East or West, Home is best.

Do you live in Mongolia?

for sure, I will.

I will? So you don't actually live in Mongolia at the moment??

yes, at the moment.

I see..

Asashoryu is not like Kyokoshuzan who had "cunning streak", Shu knew what to do with "Japanese Way", when to win, when to stop.

Asashoryu is not like Hakuho who has image of "good boy" hopeful of becoming soft-eared son-in-law. Now Hakuho learned that he doesn't need to stick out his head over the crowd. Kyokotenho is ....and Japanese Sumo wrestlers are very Japanese. etc..etc..

All I can say is you have it totally wrong. Maybe Coo-cook can explain to you better than me. You simply do not understand how it works.

[Blue_Wolf]

Same feeling here, Coo-cook.

Blue Wolf You are not Wolf. wolves ahave always thier own mind

Off topic it is. Let's drop it, shall we?

[Otokonoyama]

Japan needs to have its own Yokozuna. Mongolia needs to have its own sons come back. Following his examples thousand of youth should return HOME. East or West, Home is best.

Do you live in Mongolia?

for sure, I will.

I will? So you don't actually live in Mongolia at the moment??

yes, at the moment.

whereabouts? your ip number suggests america

Edited August 19, 2007 by Otokonoyama

[Arslan]

So it was "easy-going" Mongolian people who conquered the largest contiguous empire in history?

Mongolians conquired the largest empire because they had a genious leader Chingis Khan. At that time Mongolia had historical peak. There is an opinion that all countries have history of their ups and downs. The way you said it sounds like you're jealous.

In the aforementioned empire any city that didn't surrender before a battle would have all the inhabitants slaughtered afterwards.

If you read the history of Mongolian conquers you can find the reasons they did it. Hope you don't mean that Japanese were much more merciful in Korea or China.