Jump to content

Aki 2007

higginbotham

By higginbotham
in Honbasho Talk

 Share

Recommended Posts

higginbotham Juryo

higginbotham

Posted
Posted

Ye Asashoryu (Y1e, 14-1 Yusho)

Yw Hakuho (Y1w, 11-4)

O1e Chiyotaikai (O1w 9-6)

O1w Kotooshu (O2e 9-6)

O2e Kaio (O1e 8-5-2)

O2w Kotomitsuki (S1e 13-2 JGK)

Se Aminishiki (K1w 8-7 S)

Sw Kisenosato (M6w 11-4)

Ke Asasekiryu (M1w 8-7)

Kw Ama (S1w 7-8)

M1e Tokitenku (K1e 7-8)

M1w Homasho (M6e 9-6)

M2e Tochinonada (M9e 10-5)

M2w Kakuryu (M8e 9-6)

M3e Hokutoriki (M10w 10-5)

M3w Toyohibiki (M14w 11-4K)

M4e Kotoshogiku (M1e 5-10)

M4w Kaiho (M15e 10-5)

M5e Dejima (M2e 5-10)

M5w Toyonoshima (M4w 7-8)

M6e Wakanosato (M2w 5-10)

M6w Miyabiyama (M5e 7-8)

M7e Tokitsuumi (M11e 8-7)

M7w Tamanoshima (M5w 6-9)

M8e Takekaze (M3e 4-11)

M8w Tosanoumi (M13w 8-7)

M9e Roho (M3w 3-1-11)

M9w Tamakasuga (M15w 8-7)

M10e Iwakyiama (J1e 12-3Y)

M10w Takamisakari (M4e 3-12)

M11e Futeno (M7w 5-10)

M11w Kasugao (M10e 7-8)

M12e Kyokutenho (J3w 12-3)

M12w Tochiozan (M7e 4-6-5)

M13e Kokkai (M9w 6-9)

M13w Goeido (J5w 12-3)

M14e Ryuo (M8w 5-10)

M14w Kitazakura (M11w 6-9)

M15e Hakurozan (M12e 6-9)

M15w Kasuganishiki (J3e 8-7)

M16e Yoshikaze (M13e 6-9)

M16w Wakanoho (J4e 8-7)

Guest Neo

Guest Neo

Posted
Posted

I highly doubt Kise will get the sekiwake spot as he did not have any top guys except Kotomitsuki. So I think Asasekiryu will get that spot. Hence no top maegashira guys excep Asasekiryu had winning records I expect Ama & Tokitenku not to drop down much. Well, it is possible Kise will get Kw and Tokitenku M1e.

Se Aminishiki (K1w 8-7 S)

Sw Asasekiryu (M1w 8-7)

Ke Ama (S1w 7-8)

Kw Tokitenku (K1e 7-8)

M1e Kisenosato (M6w 11-4)

M1w Homasho (M6e 9-6)

Jokkamura Jonidan

Jokkamura

Posted
Posted
My guess is that Tokitenku will go down to maegashira, Asasekiryu up to sekiwake and Kisenosato to komusubi.

Would it be possible to have only one sekiwake ?

Jakusotsu Dai-yokozuna

Jakusotsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
Would it be possible to have only one sekiwake ?

No. Always at least two Ozeki, Sekiwake and Komusubi.

I find it quite remarkable that this one shabby win for Asasekiryu against Hokutoriki was the difference between Sekiwake and Maegashira.

Edited by Jakusotsu
Tikozan Komusubi

Tikozan

Posted
Posted

I also would see Asasekiryu as the second Sekiwake. He fought against 8 from sanyaku (Hakuho, all Ozekis, Sekiwakes and Komusubis).

Kisenosato had only Kotomitsuki from sanyaku but 9 Maegashira which were lower ranked than he. So his way was much easier.

Bealzbob Komusubi

Bealzbob

Posted
Posted (edited)

Not to mention Hakuho's shabby henka against Asashoryu being the difference between ozeki and yokozuna ;-)

It's nice to see Kisenosato back on form. I think he's now had his doldrums and is ready for a concerted and consistent attack on the sanyaku ranks. It's good to have the real Kise back after 3 consecutive MK's.

It has been 8 years since someone went from M6 to sanyaku with 11-4 (Musoyama). Musoyama had already been a sekiwake and was only down there through injury so they knew what he could do.

Although perversely it is only 3 years since someone from M7 went to sanyaku with an 11-4 (Shimotori). Difference being that in 2004 that was Shimotori's 3rd consecutive KK and they probably wanted to see just what he was capable of.

Kisenosato has just come off 3 consecutive MK's. Having looked at my initial banzuke calculation, I think Ama & Tokitenku's MK's coupled with Kotomitsuki's probable promotion will result in fortuitous circumstances which might just give Kise the West Komusubi slot. Here's my banzuke.

Yokozuna

Asashoryu

Hakuho

Ozeki

Kaio

Chiyotaikai

Kotooshu

Kotomitsuki

Sekiwake

Aminishiki

Asasekiryu

Komusubi

Ama

Kisenosato

Maegashira 1

Tokitenku

Homasho

Maegashira 2

Tochinonada

Kakuryu

Maegashira 3

Kotoshogiku

Hokutoriki

Maegashira 4

Dejima

Wakanosato

Maegashira 5

Toyonoshima

Toyohibiki

Maegashira 6

Miyabiyama

Tamanoshima

Maegashira 7

Iwakiyama

Takekaze

Maegashira 8

Tokitsuumi

Kaiho

Maegashira 9

Roho

Kyokutenho

Maegashira 10

Futeno

Kokkai

Maegashira 11

Takamisakari

Kasugao

Maegashira 12

Tosanoumi

Ryuo

Maegashira 13

Goeido

Tochiozan

Maegashira 14

Kitazakura

Hakurozan

Maegashira 15

Tamakasuga

Yoshikaze

Maegashira 16

Kasuganishiki

Wakanoho

Edited by Bealzbob
Golynohana Sekiwake

Golynohana

Posted
Posted
My guess is that Tokitenku will go down to maegashira, Asasekiryu up to sekiwake and Kisenosato to komusubi.

Would it be possible to have only one sekiwake ?

I didn't mention the second sekiwake because it seems obvious that it will be Aminishiki. Second komusubi will be Ama.

Doitsuyama Yokozuna

Doitsuyama

Posted
Posted
Anyhoo, I agree that there should be no way Kisenosato gets sanyaku for 11-4 from M6. I do have him at M1 for Aki though.

I'd be interested in your line of reasoning for that part. After that you can explain me your view about Asashoryu's promotion to komusubi with a 9-6 from M6e in Haru 2001.

That's my view: 11-4 from M6 is a totally respectable score to get a promotion to komusubi, not even needing banzuke luck.

Asashosakari Dai-yokozuna

Asashosakari

Posted
Posted
It has been 8 years since someone went from M6 to sanyaku with 11-4 (Musoyama). Musoyama had already been a sekiwake and was only down there through injury so they knew what he could do.

And there was that little matter of there being nobody else to fill that sanyaku slot with...

Although perversely it is only 3 years since someone from M7 went to sanyaku with an 11-4 (Shimotori). Difference being that in 2004 that was Shimotori's 3rd consecutive KK and they probably wanted to see just what he was capable of.

No, AFAICR they were very hard on 8-7 rikishi in general at the time, so Shimotori got the nod over Kyokushuzan with 3 more wins and a 9 half-rank deficit. In my impression they've since adopted more of a "promote from the top first" approach (take e.g. Aminishiki getting the nod over Asasekiryu for Kw this basho, with the same rank/win differentials as Shimo/Shoes), especially if the higher-ranked rikishi was in joi-jin and the other guy wasn't.

For another example of that shift, I'll point out the following two cases:

2003.09:

M1w Tochinonada 8-7 -> M1e

M5e Iwakiyama 11-4 -> Kw

2007.03:

M1w Toyonoshima 8-7 -> Kw

M5e Homasho 11-4-> M1e

Of course, "promote from the top" means that Asasekiryu gets the Sekiwake slot. I'll be quite stunned if he doesn't. In fact, I'll be less surprised if the two Komusubi end up being Ama and Tokitenku, and Kisenosato only goes to M1e.

Jakusotsu Dai-yokozuna

Jakusotsu

Posted
Posted
In fact, I'll be less surprised if the two Komusubi end up being Ama and Tokitenku, and Kisenosato only goes to M1e.

Seconded. Especially so since Tokitenku has a history of favourable banzuke luck.

Bealzbob Komusubi

Bealzbob

Posted
Posted

In reality probably not, but that's what the numbers churned out. I was a little generous on Baruto's placing for Nagoya too. Need to finetune the old spreadsheet (Holiday feeling...)

Doitsuyama Yokozuna

Doitsuyama

Posted
Posted

Well, Miyabiyama got to M7 from J1, but his yusho was a 14-1 and the last maegashira rank was M14. We'll see where Iwakiyama lands.

Guest Neo

Guest Neo

Posted
Posted
Anyhoo, I agree that there should be no way Kisenosato gets sanyaku for 11-4 from M6. I do have him at M1 for Aki though.

I'd be interested in your line of reasoning for that part. After that you can explain me your view about Asashoryu's promotion to komusubi with a 9-6 from M6e in Haru 2001.

That's my view: 11-4 from M6 is a totally respectable score to get a promotion to komusubi, not even needing banzuke luck.

To komosubi Yes. Probably not good enough to sekiwake though.

Asashosakari Dai-yokozuna

Asashosakari

Posted
Posted

Well, here's my initial attempt...lots of tricky spots and judgement decisions this time, it seems. GTB is going to be quite interesting this time.

Asashoryu (Ye, 14-1Y)	 Y	Hakuho (Yw, 11-4)
Chiyotaikai (O1w, 9-6)	O1   Kotooshu (O2e, 9-6)
Kaio (O1e, 8-5-2)		 O2   Kotomitsuki (Se, 13-2)
Aminishiki (Kw, 8-7)	  S	Asasekiryu (M1w, 8-7)
Ama (Sw, 7-8)			 K	Kisenosato (M6w, 11-4)
Tokitenku (Ke, 7-8)	   M1   Homasho (M6e, 9-6)
Tochinonada (M9e, 10-5)   M2   Kakuryu (M8e, 9-6)
Hokutoriki (M10w, 10-5)   M3   Toyohibiki (M14w, 11-4)
Kaiho (M15e, 10-5)		M4   Tokitsuumi (M11e, 8-7)
Kotoshogiku (M1e, 5-10)   M5   Toyonoshima (M4w, 7-8)
Miyabiyama (M5e, 7-8)	 M6   Dejima (M2e, 5-10)
Wakanosato (M2w, 5-10)	M7   Tamanoshima (M5w, 6-9)
Takekaze (M3e, 4-11)	  M8   Tosanoumi (M13w, 8-7)
Iwakiyama (J1e, 12-3Y)	M9   Tamakasuga (M15w, 8-7)
Roho (M3w, 3-1-11)		M10  Takamisakari (M4e, 3-12)
Kasugao (M10e, 7-8)	   M11  Kyokutenho (J3w, 12-3)
Kokkai (M9w, 6-9)		 M12  Futeno (M7w, 5-10)
Goeido (J5w, 12-3)		M13  Ryuo (M8w, 5-10)
Tochiozan (M7e, 4-6-5)	M14  Kitazakura (M11w, 6-9)
Hakurozan (M12e, 6-9)	 M15  Yoshikaze (M13e, 6-9)
Kasuganishiki (J3e, 8-7)  M16  Wakanoho (J4e, 8-7)

M4 to M7 is the main area I'm really not sure about. So what the heck, here's an alternative guess. (Nodding yes...)

Kotoshogiku (M1e, 5-10)   M4   Dejima (M2e, 5-10)
Toyonoshima (M4w, 7-8)	M5   Miyabiyama (M5e, 7-8)
Wakanosato (M2w, 5-10)	M6   Kaiho (M15e, 10-5)
Tokitsuumi (M11e, 8-7)	M7   Tamanoshima (M5w, 6-9)

Juryo:

Kakizoe (M16e, 6-9)	   J1   Hochiyama (M16w, 6-9)
Otsukasa (M17e, 6-9)	  J2   Wakakirin (J9w, 10-5)
Toyozakura (J8e, 8-7)	 J3   Hakuba (J8w, 8-7)
Koryu (J12e, 9-6)		 J4   Mokonami (J10e, 8-7)
Satoyama (M12w, 2-13)	 J5   Ushiomaru (J2e, 6-9)
Tochinohana (J2w, 6-9)	J6   Shunketsu (J1w, 5-10)
Masatsukasa (J6w, 7-8)	J7   Shirononami (J4w, 6-9)
Chiyohakuho (J14w, 9-6)   J8   Kitataiki (J13e, 8-7)
Hoshihikari (J13w, 8-7)   J9   Daimanazuru (J6e, 6-9)
Shimotori (J5e, 5-10)	 J10  Baruto (M14e, 0-2-13)
Kotokasuga (Ms1e, 6-1)	J11  Sakaizawa (J10w, 7-6-2)
Kyokunankai (J11e, 7-8)   J12  Tamarikido (J7e, 5-7-3)
Katayama (J12w, 7-8)	  J13  Jumonji (J9e, 5-10)
Ryuho (J11w, 6-9)		 J14  Asofuji (J7w, 4-11)

And the HMS Makushita-joi, where the Germans and the English continue to occupy the same spots with their beachtowels...or that's what it looks like anyway:

Ichihara (Ms1w, 4-3)	  Ms1  Kobo (Ms2e, 4-3)
Isobe (Ms19e, 7-0Y)	   Ms2  Tochisakae (Ms3e, 4-3)
Takanowaka (Ms3w, 4-3)	Ms3  Yoshiazuma (Ms4w, 4-3)
Kimurayama (Ms5w, 4-3)	Ms4  Hokutokuni (Ms10w, 5-2)
Sokokurai (Ms11e, 5-2)	Ms5  Takekabuto (Ms11w, 5-2)
Tokusegawa (Ms12w, 5-2)   Ms6  Wakatenro (Ms8e, 4-3)
Shotenro (Ms9w, 4-3)	  Ms7  Tochinoshin (Ms18w, 6-1)
Kirinowaka (Ms4e, 3-4)	Ms8  Tamaasuka (Ms5e, 3-4)
Bushuyama (Ms2w, 2-5)	 Ms9  Towanoyama (Ms13w, 4-3)
Shimoda (Ms15e, 4-3)	  Ms10 Asahimaru (Ms31e, 6-1)
Mori (Ms21e, 5-2)		 Ms11 Kagaya (Ms6w, 3-4)
Nakanishi (Ms7e, 3-4)	 Ms12 Yanagawa (Ms7w, 3-4)
Kanbayashi (Ms17w, 4-3)   Ms13 Takakoyama (Ms23e, 5-2)
Daitensho (Ms8w, 3-4)	 Ms14 Matsutani (Ms9e, 3-4)
Yakigaya (Ms19w, 4-3)	 Ms15 Takunishiki (Ms20w, 4-3)

Oimeru Maegashira

Oimeru

Posted
Posted

This is my quick attempt:

YE	 YE	 14			Asashoryu
YW	 YW	 11			Hakuho
O1E	O1W	 9			Chiyotaikai
O1W	O2E	 9			Kotooshu
O2E	O1E	 8			Kaio
O2W	SE	 13			Kotomitsuki
SE	 KW	  8	 +3	 Aminishiki
SW	 M1W	 8	 +4	 Asasekiryu
KE	 SW	  7	 -1	 Ama
KW	 M6E	11	 +11	Kisenosato
M1E	KE	  7	 -2	 Tokitenku
M1W	M6E	 9	 +9	 Homasho
M2E	M9E	10	 +14	Tochinonada
M2W	M8E	 9	 +11	Kakuryu
M3E	M10W   10	 +14	Hokutoriki
M3W	M14W   11	 +22	Toyohibiki
M4E	M1E	 5	 -6	 Kotoshogiku
M4W	M2E	 5	 -5	 Dejima
M5E	M4W	 7	 -1	 Toyonoshima
M5W	M5E	 7	 -1	 Miyabiyama
M6E	M2W	 5	 -7	 Wakanosato
M6W	M15E   10	 +17	Kaiho
M7E	M5W	 6	 -3	 Tamanoshima
M7W	M11E	8	 +7	 Tokitsuumi
M8E	M3E	 4	 -10	Takekaze
M8W	M13W	8	 +10	Tosanoumi
M9E	J1E	12	 +17	Iwakiyama
M9W	M3W	 3	 -12	Roho
M10E   M7W	 5	 -5	 Futeno
M10W   M4E	 3	 -13	Takamisakari
M11E   M10E	7	 -2	 Kasugao
M11W   M9W	 6	 -4	 Kokkai
M12E   M8W	 5	 -7	 Ryuo
M12W   M15W	8	 +6	 Tamakasuga
M13E   J3W	12	 +14	Kyokutenho
M13W   M7E	 4	 -13	Tochiozan
M14E   M11W	6	 -5	 Kitazakura
M14W   J5W	12	 +15	Goeido
M15E   M12E	6	 -6	 Hakurozan
M15W   M13E	6	 -5	 Yoshikaze
M16E   J3E	 8	 +7	 Kasuganishiki
M16W   J4E	 8	 +8	 Wakanoho

Kaikitsune Makoto Yokozuna

Kaikitsune Makoto

Posted
Posted

It is quite sad that Hokutoriki is back at high maegashira. His sumo is so sad up there. It is sad down there too but sadness is more debilitating at high maegashira. It doesn't look too good after M1s either since Nada isn't really what he was when he was genki and Kakuryu......Certainly hope Tsuumi and Kaiho won't be at M4 as Asashosakari predicted. Especially Tsuumi is a total disaster at that level now. Luckily sekiwake-komusubi-M1 will be very solid bunch no matter what. Lower maegashira will have plenty of spice too with Goeido, Tochiozan, Wakanoho, Futeno, Kokkai, Kyokutenho and others down there.

Jakusotsu Dai-yokozuna

Jakusotsu

Posted
Posted

Tough question, Nishi. Perhaps the master of data could do a search for one rikishi overtaking another with the same record.

Doitsuyama Yokozuna

Doitsuyama

Posted
Posted
Would the fact that Iwakiyama's yusho over Kyokuteno came in a playoff make a significant difference? If it had gone the other way is there a possibility Kyokutenho would be higher than Iwakiyama on the next banzuke?

No way. Special exception is only made for yokozuna vs yokozuna playoff when yusho winner becomes Ye. Maybe ozeki vs ozeki too, this I don't know.

Doitsuyama Yokozuna

Doitsuyama

Posted
Posted
So does that mean only their tournament records matter for banzuke making? The playoff win has no effect?

Exactly. The playoffs also aren't part of hon-basho and don't figure in career records.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...