San-Sho Predictions?

[Washuyama]

Just wondering everyone's thoughts on the special prizes... I think Mickey will take the Shukun-sho and possibly the Gino-sho. Kanto-sho: hmmm... Toyohibiki? Kaiho? Homasho?

I forgot the most coveted... The Henka-sho goes to.... Hakurozan... (No KK required)

Edited July 21, 2007 by Washuyama

[Sokkenaiyama]

Kanto-sho: Toyohibiki, Kotomitsuki

Gino-sho: Kisenosato (100% sure if he wins tomorrow), possibly Kotomitsuki if he gets the Yusho

Shukun-sho: Kotomitsuki, Aminishiki (maybe)

[Asashosakari]

Bound to be 100% wrong, but what the hey...

Shukun-sho: Kotomitsuki, Aminishiki

Kanto-sho: Kotomitsuki, Toyohibiki (with a win)

Gino-sho: Kaiho

[Tikozan]

I forgot the most coveted... The Henka-sho goes to.... Hakurozan... (No KK required)

(Whistling...) Nice idea for a new price...

[Kotonosato]

I forgot the most coveted... The Henka-sho goes to.... Hakurozan... (No KK required)

Or maybe Kotooshu (with one more henka). (Whistling...)

Edited July 22, 2007 by Kotonosato

[Bishonohana]

I forgot the most coveted... The Henka-sho goes to.... Hakurozan... (No KK required)

He would be glad to accept the Henka-sho! (Clapping wildly...) He's not proud... (Whistling...) He'll take what he can get! (Whistling...) (Laughing...)

[Sasanishiki]

The no-show: Futeno / Satoyama

The show-off-show: Takamisakari / Kitazakura

The on-with-the-show: Asa-show-ryu

It sounds like someone is trying to emulate Kintamayama (Whistling...)

[Hananotaka]

I can't believe Homasho was skunked. I suppose it's just a sign of higher expectations now...

[Flohru]

I can't believe Homasho was skunked. I suppose it's just a sign of higher expectations now...

Higher expectations? for what exactly should Homasho get a Sansho this Basho? The only kk-rikishi he beat was Kakuryu, the other 8 combined a 42-78 record and his losses against the top guys in the last 5 days were all more or less clear...

[Hananotaka]

I can't believe Homasho was skunked. I suppose it's just a sign of higher expectations now...

Higher expectations? for what exactly should Homasho get a Sansho this Basho? The only kk-rikishi he beat was Kakuryu, the other 8 combined a 42-78 record and his losses against the top guys in the last 5 days were all more or less clear...

The man won decisively with his own sumo for nine straight days, losing only when he was thrown up against the Yokozuna and Ozeki, opponents that generally a Maegashira 6 doesn't see, and remained in the yusho race long after all the Ozeki were out. No, nobody gives out sansho for 9-6 records, but I expected at least a provisional kanto or gino sho if he beat Chiyotaikai.

[Washuyama]

I forgot the most coveted... The Henka-sho goes to.... Hakurozan... (No KK required)

Or maybe Kotooshu (with one more henka). (I am not worthy...)

I would still give it to Hakurozan. Kotooshu had quantity, but Hakurozan had quality... Hell, he tried to play leapfrog twice.. (Laughing...)

Edited July 22, 2007 by Washuyama

[Kotobaru]

Homasho had too good start and was later thrown to sharks :-O It's not good to have a good start if you are not able to win up to the end! (I am not worthy...) (Laughing...) Of course he got unlucky torikumi's (compare with his rank-mate Kisenosato)!

Edited July 22, 2007 by Kotobaru

[Flohru]

The man won decisively with his own sumo for nine straight days, losing only when he was thrown up against the Yokozuna and Ozeki, opponents that generally a Maegashira 6 doesn't see, and remained in the yusho race long after all the Ozeki were out. No, nobody gives out sansho for 9-6 records, but I expected at least a provisional kanto or gino sho if he beat Chiyotaikai.

Eight straight days actually, losing also against Tochiozan and Tochinonada, which is already too much for ever really being IN the yusho race. And only because the Ozeki are too weak to fight for a yusho, you shouldn't give San-shos to mid-Maegashiras that are "just" easily overpowering guys like Kitazakura, Ryuo and Kasugao, at least imho...

[Washuyama]

The man won decisively with his own sumo for nine straight days, losing only when he was thrown up against the Yokozuna and Ozeki, opponents that generally a Maegashira 6 doesn't see, and remained in the yusho race long after all the Ozeki were out. No, nobody gives out sansho for 9-6 records, but I expected at least a provisional kanto or gino sho if he beat Chiyotaikai.

Eight straight days actually, losing also against Tochiozan and Tochinonada, which is already too much for ever really being IN the yusho race. And only because the Ozeki are too weak to fight for a yusho, you shouldn't give San-shos to mid-Maegashiras that are "just" easily overpowering guys like Kitazakura, Ryuo and Kasugao, at least imho...

I agree... His record looked good for the first week and he was mentioned in the same sentence in the press with Mickey, Hakuho and Asashoryu. In the end he got his kk... and he better keiko his butt off between now and September as he will fight all the sanyaku the first week... I like the kid and hope he becomes the next Ozeki in a year or so...

[Asashosakari]

Homasho had too good start and was later thrown to sharks :-O It's not good to have a good start if you are not able to win up to the end! (I am not worthy...) (Laughing...) Of course he got unlucky torikumi's (compare with his rank-mate Kisenosato)!

Well, Kisenosato didn't get a sansho either, with two more wins. :-) Generally speaking, I don't think a joi-jin quality rikishi fighting "below his rank" (as both Homasho and Kise did this basho, or Homasho in the first week anyway) will get a sansho these days with less than 12 wins. So I can't say I was particularly surprised.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Kotobaru]

Homasho had too good start and was later thrown to sharks :-) It's not good to have a good start if you are not able to win up to the end! (I am not worthy...) (Laughing...) Of course he got unlucky torikumi's (compare with his rank-mate Kisenosato)!

Well, Kisenosato didn't get a sansho either, with two more wins. :-) Generally speaking, I don't think a joi-jin quality rikishi fighting "below his rank" (as both Homasho and Kise did this basho, or Homasho in the first week anyway) will get a sansho these days with less than 12 wins. So I can't say I was particularly surprised.

With the result in the end of the day Homasho had no chance for sansho, I just was sarcastic about his fate. What I'm still trying to say is, that I'm not happy with this torikumi making process. Equals are not treated equally even remotely. :-O

[Kintamayama]

What I'm still trying to say is, that I'm not happy with this torikumi making process. Equals are not treated equally even remotely. (I am not worthy...)

Yes they are. Homasho was 9-1 on day 10. Kisenosato was 6-4. A 9-1 Maegashira 6 always gets "thrown" against the top guys, sometimes for 4 straight days. That's how this works. Always. Since the beginning of mankind. It doesn't matter how it ends-the process and the road are what matters.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Kotobaru]

What I'm still trying to say is, that I'm not happy with this torikumi making process. Equals are not treated equally even remotely. (I am not worthy...)

Yes they are. Homasho was 9-1 on day 10. Kisenosato was 6-4. A 9-1 Maegashira 6 always gets "thrown" against the top guys, sometimes for 4 straight days. That's how this works. Always. Since the beginning of mankind. It doesn't matter how it ends-the process and the road are what matters.

Ce la vie - Maegashira should not get Yusho without the test of real opposition, but later, when he is taken out of race (day 12 in our case) he should be given proper opponents from his area of Banzuke. Luck (Banzuke luck or torikumi luck) have a great deal of this business here. So my sarcastic statement is still in place - it's not good to have a good start.

[Kintamayama]

Ce la vie - Maegashira should not get Yusho without the test of real opposition, but later, when he is taken out of race (day 12 in our case) he should be given proper opponents from his area of Banzuke. Luck (Banzuke luck or torikumi luck) have a great deal of this business here. So my sarcastic statement is still in place - it's not good to have a good start.

So are you suggesting he should have lost a few on the first days so he'd get a better torikumi later on? You are saying it is better Toulose than to win?

Then what's the point of all this? Do you have a better suggestion of how things should be? What is the meaning of life?

[Kotobaru]

So are you suggesting he should have lost a few on the first days so he'd get a better torikumi later on? You are saying it is better Toulose than to win?

If you are not in joi-jin and you are not real yusho contender (occasionally down in Banzuke) then it seems to me as weird it is that it's better to start with 6-4 like Kise did (or 7-3) and to avoid the Sanyaku opponents. 11-4 is still decent result at the end of HonBasho. In M5 or M6 position I'd rather settle my schedule next time to avoid to be in line with leaders and keep myself one-two steps behind. Because in Banzuke-making win is a win and there is no premium to win better opponents.

I know, this is not at all what Sumo is all about. My everyday work is related to strategic planning in finance (where nobody puts himself into disadvantage), probably because of that I thought to justify the number of wins before the last 5 bouts. And if one sekitori starts to think alike it shall discourage the principles of Sumo.

Do you have a better suggestion of how things should be?

I think the torikumi making should be done with better care. From day 14 there wasn't any need to put Homasho against the Sanyaku opponents. And this was clear at day 13 when torikumi for day 14 was made.

Yeah, I have to admit that I like Homasho and I'm unhappy to see him treated alike only because he was better at start then Kise.

[Hananotaka]

And only because the Ozeki are too weak to fight for a yusho, you shouldn't give San-shos to mid-Maegashiras that are "just" easily overpowering guys like Kitazakura, Ryuo and Kasugao, at least imho...

Hence, my comment about "higher expectations". Generally, a rikishi dominates his banzuke-mates enough to get thrown at the big boys, if he posts double-digits he'll get a sansho. It doesn't matter what the record of his opponents are; some of those guys are makekoshi because they lost to him. A rikishi can only beat the guys set in front of him.

[Hananotaka]

Do you have a better suggestion of how things should be?

I think the torikumi making should be done with better care. From day 14 there wasn't any need to put Homasho against the Sanyaku opponents. And this was clear at day 13 when torikumi for day 14 was made.

I think it was absolutely the right move to put Homasho up against the sanyaku to round out the week, even if it was a little beyond his skill and cost him a sansho. Homasho is officially a Young Japanese Hope. His sumo is strong and aesthetically appealing. The Kyokai wants him in marquee match-ups. Homasho vs. Kotomitsuki is a huge draw for the crowd. With the joi-jin rather mediocre aside from the Yokozuna and Kotomitsuki, Homasho was essentially breveted a sanyaku, and given that responsibility till the end of the basho. It's not a sansho, but it's an honor in its own right. They were saying, "Young man, this is where you should be. Get used to it, and show that crowd some quality sumo!"

Given the huge strides Homasho has made this basho as far as doing attacking sumo, he should be very good next basho.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Hananotaka

[Asashosakari]

(off-topic interlude)

Given the huge strides Homasho has made this basho as far as doing attacking sumo, he should be very good next basho.

Careful Josh, he might break your heart like Wakanosato did. (I am not worthy...)

[Hananotaka]

(off-topic interlude)

Given the huge strides Homasho has made this basho as far as doing attacking sumo, he should be very good next basho.

Careful Josh, he might break your heart like Wakanosato did. ;-)

When did Wakanosato break my heart? B-) I mean, it's hard watching him now apparently in his decline (not least because we're the same age), but I've never been disappointed in him.

I do seem to have a tendency to like rikishi who have weak tachiai, though.

[Naganoyama]

Do you have a better suggestion of how things should be?

I think the torikumi making should be done with better care. From day 14 there wasn't any need to put Homasho against the Sanyaku opponents. And this was clear at day 13 when torikumi for day 14 was made.

I think it was absolutely the right move to put Homasho up against the sanyaku to round out the week, even if it was a little beyond his skill and cost him a sansho. Homasho is officially a Young Japanese Hope. His sumo is strong and aesthetically appealing. The Kyokai wants him in marquee match-ups. Homasho vs. Kotomitsuki is a huge draw for the crowd. With the joi-jin rather mediocre aside from the Yokozuna and Kotomitsuki, Homasho was essentially breveted a sanyaku, and given that responsibility till the end of the basho. It's not a sansho, but it's an honor in its own right. They were saying, "Young man, this is where you should be. Get used to it, and show that crowd some quality sumo!"

Given the huge strides Homasho has made this basho as far as doing attacking sumo, he should be very good next basho.

I was glad that Homasho faced some big boys - it's really good for his Sumo to get good opposition in real Hon-Basho bouts. He will learn a great deal and come back better for it next time out.