Linemen

[philafuji]

Most of today's college and pro football linemen

weigh as much as some rikishi.

I wonder how good they might be if they entered sumo?

Some of them are extreamly athletic and fast for their size.

Just something to ponder.

[yamaneko]

It all depends on how fast they can learn tachiai, basic technique, and belt work. Because power wise, yes they would be as powerful as sumo guys. In my old club, we had an nebraska, and world league football player. Ridiculously powerful, but terrible technique.

[Otokonoyama]

The idea that bigger and physically stronger will always win is what separates sport from martial art. Judo has definitely gone this way. One well-known martial artist said that 柔道 should really be written 重道. Sumo seems to have moved in the same direction. Guys like Mainoumi, Ama, and Toyonoshima would never make makuuchi if this were the case.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Otokonoyama

[philafuji]

The idea that bigger and physically stronger will always win is what separates sport from martial art. Judo has definitely gone this way. One well-known martial artist said that 柔道 should really be written 重道. Sumo seems to have moved in the same direction. Guys like Mainoumi, Ama, and Toyonoshima would never make makuuchi if this were the case.

Thank you both for the responses. Good points made by both of you. I remember Mainoumi very well. He was proof that bigger and stronger doesn't guarente success.

[Shibouyama]

柔道 should really be written 重道.

That`s really funny. The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

[philafuji]

It all depends on how fast they can learn tachiai, basic technique, and belt work. Because power wise, yes they would be as powerful as sumo guys. In my old club, we had an nebraska, and world league football player. Ridiculously powerful, but terrible technique.

Tachiai Is what got me to thinking about this subject in the first place.

When opposing lniemen take there stances before the ball is put in to play it reminds me of Tachiai.

I would have thought that Tachiai would be the easiest part of learning sumo for them.

I am sure there is much more for them to learn good tachiai techniques but wouldn't they pick up on that easier than all of the rest of sumo?

[philafuji]

柔道 should really be written 重道.

That`s really funny. The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

There are many people who can't to 20 leave a lone 100. Don't be hard on yourself. It takes a long time to build up repititons in push ups. No one starts out at 900 a day. You can bet that it took a long time to get to that number.

[sekitori]

The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

I can do 300 pushups a day--12 sets of 25 with a half hour break between each set. (Holiday feeling...)

Concerning American football linemen in sumo, no matter how strong and agile they may be, they probably would have the same problem that Akebono and Kintamiyama always talked about--a high center of gravity because of their long legs. In his book Takamiyama wrote, "I was top-heavy in a world of heavy bottoms". He went on to say, "unlike short legged, strong hipped Japanese wrestlers, whose bodies are more naturally suited for the sport partly, perhaps, from years of sitting and squatting on the floor, my long legs and higher center of gravity made me extremely vulnerable to shorter wrestlers skillled in the various throwing techniques." They just weren't as stable as rikishis with a lower center of gravity. Akebono and Takamiyama, no matter how successful they became, were always concerned about it. I would think that all rikishis with long legs would have the same stability problem.

[sekitori]

Concerning American football linemen in sumo, no matter how strong and agile they may be, they probably would have the same problem that Akebono and Kintamiyama always talked about--a high center of gravity because of their long legs.

Sorry. That should have been Takamiyama, not our emiment Sumo Forum group member. I'm not sure if has long legs or not. (Holiday feeling...)

[Takemi]

柔道 should really be written 重道.

That`s really funny. The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

900 push-ups a day, thats laughable. (Holiday feeling...)

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/pushups.html

[Petr]

My opinion:

More generally, they'd need to learn the sumo form - suriashi and keeping elbows close. Tachiai is just one example of their non-sumo form. The main reason why their form is not effective in sumo is because of different rules; especially the sumo rule that you cannot touch the ground. It is easy to get someone to touch the ground with his knee or his hand if they don't push in suriashi form. In football, however, it doesn't matter if he touches the ground - he can keep on pushing.

[philafuji]

柔道 should really be written 重道.

That`s really funny. The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

900 push-ups a day, thats laughable. (Holiday feeling...)

It was posted on one of the sites that Chiyonofuji did one thousand push ups a day to give his shoulders great power.

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/pushups.html

[Takemi]

Being the biggest, or the heaviest, or the fastest, or having the most endurance or stamina doesn't make any athlete the best.

Here was I thinking the worldrecord holder of 100meters is the fastest and therefore the best athlete within his sport. Maybe I was wrong... (Holiday feeling...)

[Otokonoyama]

柔道 should really be written 重道.

That`s really funny. The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

900 push-ups a day, thats laughable. (Holiday feeling...)

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/pushups.html

I don't think there's any mention of consecutively, just all done in one day. Likely broken up into parts...some in the morning, afternoon, and evening. I'd heard he (Kimura) did a thousand a day. His students would complain when made to do 600 a day. It all depends if you have the drive to be a champion or not. Guys that won't quit, no matter what. If you'll quit when your teacher asks for more than you think you can give, you'll quit when you're alone too. Asashoryu never quits. Like Nish's example with Tiger Woods. Guy never gives up. Always finds more work to do, and time to do it. A real champion.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Otokonoyama

[Arvi]

柔道 should really be written 重道.

That`s really funny. The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

There are many people who can't to 20 leave a lone 100. Don't be hard on yourself. It takes a long time to build up repititons in push ups. No one starts out at 900 a day. You can bet that it took a long time to get to that number.

It depends from where you start off - in what form have you been earlier.

It's probably a year from now, when I looked at myself in mirror, and I din't like what I did see - out of form body on lean legs (I weighted over 105 kg by 184 cm height, and I did run ~10 km daily). So I started with some additional exercises every morning (3-4 rounds of 8 exercises, including push-ups). At start I was able 10 push-ups in round, after 8 months it was 100 in round. at moment it is 70+30 in round with my feets up on stool (~40 cm high) with a minute for catching some breath between. I hope I can do it 100 in row soon again.

Btw., I weight over 105 kg still, but it looks somewhat better at least (Holiday feeling...)

[sekitori]

The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7", but at least he did 900 push-ups a day. I only do 100 or so.

All pushups are not created equally. Pushups should be done with proper form--the arms being straight at the start and finish and the chin touching the ground. The back should also be straight. They should be done slowly, not quickly with no regard to form. Pushups are probably the easiest of all exercises to "cheat" at. Some will lower their body a few inches, come back up and called that a "pushup". Technically, it may be, but it provides little if any benefit. Some people with weaker arms will do pushups raising and lowering their body from the knees up instead of their entire body with the legs being straight. That's okay if they are done with good form. If someone can "only" do 100 pushups and those pushups are done properly, that's nothing to be ashamed of. You get much more benefit from them than someone who does many, many more with lousy form.

Some people say they can do 500 pushups or more a day and they probably can. But those pushups most likely are not done consecutively and they're also probably done very quickly with terrible form. I do admit that hearing someone say they do that many pushups a day does sound quite impressive even if it really isn't. :-D If you're going to do an exercise and you don't come close to doing it correctly, there is no sense doing it all. You're wasting your time and you're cheating yourself.

[Otokonoyama]

Kimura must have been doing something right. His results speak for themselves.

[sekitori]

Kimura must have been doing something right. His results speak for themselves.

He obviously did. Serious competitive athletes are highly motivated. They don't take shortcuts in their training. I'm sure his 900 daily pushups were quite legitimate. But unlike those non-athletes and who wildly overstate the number of reps and the quality of the of exercises they do and boastfully tell everyone, I'm sure he kept quiet and as was stated, just let his results speak for themselves.

[Otokonoyama]

Agreed. Kinda like what Asa is doing now. He may not appear to be training much, but his results say he's doing something. It would appear he favours more non-traditional types of training, but make no mistake - he's putting in the time.

[Otokonoyama]

The legendary Kimura was my height 5`7"

Was he, and are you, counting high hair? (Holiday feeling...)