Ichihara - new japanese hope ...

[Petr]

On the other hand, Ichihara didn't seem so motivated at the Worlds.

[Gusoyama]

I was impressed with his day 5 bout. He's got good solidity, and moves forward very well. Definitely better than Makushita, right now he's at least Iwakiyama caliber, in my opinion.

[aderechelsea]

right now he's at least Iwakiyama caliber, in my opinion.

and how could the be any good? Poor Ichihara is doomed to eternal underachievemant :-O :-D

[Asashosakari]

right now he's at least Iwakiyama caliber, in my opinion.

I hope you weren't referring to this. :-O

[AsaMoe]

QUOTE(Kintamayama @ Jan 11, 2007, 19:13) *

After beating Buy12uzan

if i am not seing things this is one of your best ever.

Sorry, it is just me or do you need Japanes language skills to understand that ?

[Gusoyama]

right now he's at least Iwakiyama caliber, in my opinion.

I hope you weren't referring to this. :-D

Maybe I was, subliminally. :-O He reminded me of Wacky because of his size, solidity, and movements. Seems to have the same kind of sumo, in my mind. I could be crazy though.

[Tikozan]

But one should be careful: As SHIMODA started as Tsukedashi at Natsu 2006 he got the yusho with 7-0 and he was the big japanese hope.

Afterwards he couldn't tie no more to this achievement and now he's only Makushita 28.

It will be not easy for ICHIHARA, but I hope he will do it better.

[Jonosuke]

There are significant differences between Ichihara and Shimoda.

Shimoda has not been as dominant as Ichihara in his college tournament days even though he did get a Tsukedashi qualification. Ichihara has improved so much in one year and will keep on getting better with professional guidance.

Just getting a Tsukedsahi does not guaranttee the success in pro - just take a loot at Yanagawa and Takahama.

[Johnofuji]

There are significant differences between Ichihara and Shimoda.

Shimoda has not been as dominant as Ichihara in his college tournament days even though he did get a Tsukedashi qualification. Ichihara has improved so much in one year and will keep on getting better with professional guidance.

At the 2005 World games in Germany I think it was Shimoda that beat Ichihara in the heavyweight and then they met again in the Open and Ichihara won.We all thought it was a bit sus as it was an extraordinarily long and exciting bout .What made us a little sceptical was that Ichihara started smiling during the fight.Nevertheless it was exciting.When I spoke to Shimoda in Kyushu he said he was finding it tough especially going from being a big fish in a small pond.

On Yamaneko's point about Aran beating Ichihara at last years world championships my theory is that it can sometimes be harder for the japanese to fight the foreigners with different backgrounds because they move a little differently especially when some of them are very powerful and use this strength to pull off some rather unorthodox moves.With the japanese guys you have a better idea of what to expect as they have been drilled in the basics from a young age.I'm not saying they are predictable when both employ the same principles like a fast tachiai from which the only way is forward its more of a level playing field.

Aran is still probably preoccupied and trying to find his rhythm whilst having to contend with many new training techniques and a steep learning curve or maybe he is just getting used to getting paid in chanko instead of his usual vodka and cabbage.It may even be that he is getting used to the feeling of having to push against the soft puppy fat of some of his rivals rather than the hard muscle mass he has been used to at home.I know when I first drew a big nichidai amasumo my arms disappearred up to my elbows before I could get any purchase and by that time it was too late.

Ichihara has this kind of build and his tsupari looks great.It lseems like he has had no problem in making the transition from amasumo harite where it can only come from the chest upwards or start at the shoulders to full blown lethal ear drum popping barrages.

I hope he does well I know he doesn't mind a joke because he didn't mind the nickname sekuHara and was always asking me to sing my silly japanese songs(They would make a great sumo jingu but can't go there on this forum).

[Fay]

Day 4 for Ichihara, today against mongolian Musashiryu - 4-0

Edited January 14, 2007 by Fay

[ilovesumo]

Todays bout Ichihara-Musashiryu

[Vikanohara]

Impressive ! (In jonokuchi...)

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

2 minutes of strong hidari-otsu. Sakaizawa won with uwatenage at the end handing Ichihara his first ever loss.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Kaikitsune Makoto

[yamaneko]

Crap. So much for our first buzz head (or short hair) sekitori in a while. i was really hoping for a zensho from him.

[Kotoku]

This guy is Nichidai, right? So he is well trained, but I sure don't see him going anywhere special, until het gets some muscle under all that fat. The days of the meat bombs are over. Ask Miyabiyama or Dejima...

YMMV and that's fine...

[yamaneko]

In his bouts so far he actually showed great technique and strength in his wins.

This is why i think the tsukedashi rule is so dumb as is. Here is sakaizawa who didnt qualify for the rating, but still was a veteran of amasumo, so for a year now he has had to work his way up the ladder, completely dominating, when he probably would be sekitori now if he had started higher up. Or at least would have improved more.

Another guy who has proven himself capable of beating ichihara, aran, will also be toiling arond in the lower ranks for a while. I dont think these guys deserve makushita 10 or 15 status, but for their amasumo career, id say there should be places in sandame for guys like these. I dont think that will EVER happen though.

[aderechelsea]

starting from below actually does you good in my humble opinion. Especially if you are a foreigner.

You build strong skills and character, something that you have no time to do when you become a sekitori after 2 basho of your career (probably something Ichihara will).

[kaiguma]

starting from below actually does you good in my humble opinion. Especially if you are a foreigner.

You build strong skills and character, something that you have no time to do when you become a sekitori after 2 basho of your career (probably something Ichihara will).

Seriously, what harm could it do to take a year or two to get into Juryo rather than 4 months? Get a grip. Life isn't that short!

Quick S.O.S. to Asashosakari: "How long would it take Ichihara to make Sekitori debut from Maezumo with a record of XX-2? That's 2 losses in separate basho, all 7-0's and 2 6-1's. How long does it take?

[EDIT: S.O.S. to Asahosakari so we can prove once and for all how petty it is to demand that Amasumo guys start in sandanme. Aderechelsea is spot on! A little toilet scrubbin'l do yuz good fatboyz!

Edited January 15, 2007 by kaiguma

[aderechelsea]

you are quoting me because you agree or .... (Wearing a paperbag...)

EDIT: i have a quick question for Asashosakari too ... How long would it take for everyone to get off the "Ichihara bandwagon" and board on the "Sakaizawa" one? (Laughing...)

Edited January 15, 2007 by aderechelsea

[aderechelsea]

i have a quick question for Asashosakari too ... How long would it take for everyone to get off the "Ichihara bandwagon" and board on the "Sakaizawa" one? (Laughing...)

never mind ... i got my answer

(Wearing a paperbag...)

Edited January 15, 2007 by aderechelsea

[Asashosakari]

This is why i think the tsukedashi rule is so dumb as is. Here is sakaizawa who didnt qualify for the rating, but still was a veteran of amasumo, so for a year now he has had to work his way up the ladder, completely dominating, when he probably would be sekitori now if he had started higher up. Or at least would have improved more.

Another guy who has proven himself capable of beating ichihara, aran, will also be toiling arond in the lower ranks for a while. I dont think these guys deserve makushita 10 or 15 status, but for their amasumo career, id say there should be places in sandame for guys like these. I dont think that will EVER happen though.

starting from below actually does you good in my humble opinion. Especially if you are a foreigner.

You build strong skills and character, something that you have no time to do when you become a sekitori after 2 basho of your career (probably something Ichihara will).

Conceptually I agree with yamaneko here...I'm not really much of a fan of the switch from Ms60 to Ms10/15 tsukedashi status, nor the more restrictive qualifying rules for it. But the Kyokai evidently thought that, with as many college applicants as they were getting at the time, they should have to go the same way as all other shindeshi, and probably mostly for the reasons adere mentioned.

Overall, I don't think it has worked out all that badly, I'm just miffed that all kinds of "Fastest to reach ..." records are being obliterated left, right, and center. But then that's unavoidable when you get a lot more collegiate and high-school shindeshi than before 1995 or so. And to play devil's advocate...can you imagine the complaints about, say, Baruto's lack of basic technique or, [insert foreigner here]'s lack of sumo etiquette if they had been in Makuuchi after one year instead of three?

Quick S.O.S. to Asashosakari: "How long would it take Ichihara to make Sekitori debut from Maezumo with a record of XX-2? That's 2 losses in separate basho, all 7-0's and 2 6-1's. How long does it take?

That's easy enough to answer...just look at Sakaizawa's career for a great proxy. (Laughing...) He started in 2006 Haru...if he goes 7-0 this time he'll be in spitting range of Juryo next basho (actually even 6-1 will propel him into the promotion zone), so he could make it to Juryo in 7 basho (including maezumo).

If he had had a bit more banzuke luck on the way up I suppose he could be inside the Ms15 promotion zone this basho, which would enable him to get there in 6 basho with the same results if he goes 7-0 in a few days.

And just to be a smartass...if it has to be two losses in four basho, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0, 5-2 is gonna promote you higher than 7-0, 7-0, 6-1, 6-1. (Wearing a paperbag...) Sakaizawa would be around Ms10 this basho if he had earned his two-loss record that way.

[Doitsuyama]

And just to be a smartass...if it has to be two losses in four basho, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0, 5-2 is gonna promote you higher than 7-0, 7-0, 6-1, 6-1. (Wearing a paperbag...) Sakaizawa would be around Ms10 this basho if he had earned his two-loss record that way.

Don't forget the 5-2, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0 route which possibly would have brought him into the juryo promotion zone already.

[Asashosakari]

And just to be a smartass...if it has to be two losses in four basho, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0, 5-2 is gonna promote you higher than 7-0, 7-0, 6-1, 6-1. (Laughing...) Sakaizawa would be around Ms10 this basho if he had earned his two-loss record that way.

Don't forget the 5-2, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0 route which possibly would have brought him into the juryo promotion zone already.

(Wearing a paperbag...) Yep! Last yusho from Ms55 or so, that could do it.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Asashosakari

[sekihiryu]

Sakaizawa won with uwatenage

...more like Sakaizawa won with an incredibly loose Mawashi that was endanger of coming right off at one point.

Very poor form, worse than a henka in my books.

(Protesting...)

Ichihara had a good grip on the belt, the trouble was it was up around Sakaizawas throat and effectively useless.

[ilovesumo]

Ichihara.vs.Sakaizawa day 9