Gernobono Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 [That's really bad (Wearing a paperbag...) In ST we still have the Aki '06 Banzuke and in six days we could start working on Haru '07 Banzuke already....Ganzohnesushi who cares about banzuke? it is all about winning and not the place on the banzuke (for me at least).... banzuke for me is only interesting in games where you can only win when you have a certain rank (makuuchi)....a juryo-yusho does not count as a win for me.....
Frinkanohana Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 who cares about banzuke? Me (Wearing a paperbag...)
Kintamayama Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 It's not a question of caring-if there's a game, there should be a banzuke*. It's part of the game. *Said the guy who has been running a game without a banzuke for 6 years.
Ganzohnesushi Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 who cares about banzuke?it is all about winning and not the place on the banzuke (for me at least).... banzuke for me is only interesting in games where you can only win when you have a certain rank (makuuchi)....a juryo-yusho does not count as a win for me..... If you, like me (Nov '05/Jan '06), are a late starter in all the games you have to start at the very bottom of Makushita/Sandanme/Jonokuchi depending how many divisions there are... And even if you achieve KK every time it takes a dozen or more Bashos to finally arrive in Makuuchi. Of course it is all about winning, but the Banzuke rising is also fascinating. Ok, you may not understand this because in most games you participated right from the beginning or joined at a time when the lower divisions were not so crowded.... I can understand your point of view when I'm looking at my situation in Ozumo Bingo Game. I was lucky enough to participate right from the beginning and a few KK promoted me to Sanyaku. Even after 2 MK's in a row I find myself still in a comfortable M4 position, and it really doesn't matter if I'm M2 or M5.... But as long as your are hanging around in lower divisions the target is to climb the Banzuke as fast as possible. Btw, it is much more difficult to win the Makushita Yusho in Sumo Game than in the Sekitori ranks.... so your derogative remark about Yushos in lower divisions is not right in the ballpark Ganzohnesushi (taking his hat off to Osutoriajin's performance in SG)
Gernobono Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 Btw, it is much more difficult to win the Makushita Yusho in Sumo Game than in the Sekitori ranks.... so your derogative remark about Yushos in lower divisions is not right in the ballpark i am fullheartidly sorry...i did not want to diminish the wins of those from the lower divisions for all who are interested in them...... it is just my opinion.... and i think your remark about wins in lower divisions is just plain incorrect......as you mentioned sumogame, i will take this up.....in makushita a newbie is playing at least 30% of all days against a drone...that is not much fun......and i felt it rather easy to get double digit wins in sumogame makushita..... i have been responsible for german tipspiel for quite some years now and NEVER was there a basho where the median in the highest group of sanyaku and joijin was NOT the best of all groups.....(players not regularly playing do not make a difference)..... and you are right that being there at the start of the games makes it easier to earn a nice spot on the banzuke most of the times.....i had quite some discussions with other members of this forum about this topic and i know that all of them cared very much for the banzuke......it is just that i do not, in those games where anyone can win independent of where they are on the banzuke...
Ganzohnesushi Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 i am fullheartidly sorry...i did not want to diminish the wins of those from the lower divisions for all who are interested in them...... Point taken. and i think your remark about wins in lower divisions is just plain incorrect......as you mentioned sumogame, i will take this up.....in makushita a newbie is playing at least 30% of all days against a drone...that is not much fun......and i felt it rather easy to get double digit wins in sumogame makushita..... That has changed meanwhile. Yes, you'll find a few drones right at the bottom of Makushita, but above ms50 the level is nearly as high as in Makuuchi.... I've had 115 bouts so far in Makushita and the number of drones was less than 15 altogether. In current basho I have collected as much points as Yokozuna Doitsuyama but while he is at 7-2 I'm hanging around at ms34 with a disappointing 4-5.... That's not only a result of bad Torikumi luck but it also shows how hard fought these bouts in Mid-Makushita are meanwhile. i have been responsible for german tipspiel for quite some years now and NEVER was there a basho where the median in the highest group of sanyaku and joijin was NOT the best of all groups.....(players not regularly playing do not make a difference)..... Even this seems to be changing.... Some new joinees during the last Bashos have increased the level of Makushita significantly and Group 1 is suffering badly in Hatsu '07. The good thing about Tippspiel is that the Yusho goes to the over-all winner and that a KK is handled generously (if possible) by the Banzuke makers. Ganzohnesushi
Doitsuyama Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 Hatsu 07 isn't your regular basho so far. Many surprises are occuring (as evidenced in overall scores in Sekitoto or Sumo Game), and this just logically brings the better players at a disadvantage. Better make your comparisons not on a single (not even complete) basho, this would be statistically pretty insignificant.
Ganzohnesushi Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 Hatsu 07 isn't your regular basho so far. Many surprises are occuring (as evidenced in overall scores in Sekitoto or Sumo Game), and this just logically brings the better players at a disadvantage. Better make your comparisons not on a single (not even complete) basho, this would be statistically pretty insignificant. I fully agree that surprises in real Ozumo might be an advantage for the lower divisions compared to the higher ranked (or better) players. But especially in Sumo Game the competition even in Mid-Makushita is on a very high level meanwhile - not only in Hatsu '07. Former Yokozuna Kirinoumi e.g. is now competing as Kiriazuma and had his first MK already in his 3rd Basho (Kyushu '06, a Basho without big surprises) after joining SG again. Currently ranked at ms49 he has a rather poor 5-4 record, having exactly as much points as Doitsuyama... If you look at the statistics - and SG delivers many of them - you'll recognize, that the difference between Makuuchi and (Upper- and Mid-)Makushita is only marginal. But we are leaving the original topic meanwhile. Let us all hope we'll soon get a new Banzuke in ST, SO and S4. Ganzohnesushi
Kintamayama Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 But we are leaving the original topic meanwhile. Let us all hope we'll soon get a new Banzuke in ST, SO and S4. SO and S4 are dead , for all intents and purposes. No point in discussing banzukes.. From my experience, dead games rarely come back. When I say dead, I don't mean those that change hands and go on without missing a beat as in UDH and Hoshitori. I mean like ODD sumo. The only game that went and came back after a long time was ISP, but that was because I was obsessed to bring it back, and Kofuji was kind enough to make it happen. Maybe someone with time, know-how and balls will bring these two S games back.
Asashosakari Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) But we are leaving the original topic meanwhile. Let us all hope we'll soon get a new Banzuke in ST, SO and S4. Well, as I've posted before (at least I think I posted that before...), I do have up-to-date banzukes ready for all three games. The holdups are: - Zenjimoto only designated me as the banzuke maker for Seki-Toto before he disappeared in early December, so I have no idea if somebody else has been chosen to do the Oracle and S4 banzukes, and I've updated Oracle and S4 on a "just in case it's needed" basis - since the games are still his babies, my personal feeling is that I ought to consult with him on major things like Ozeki promotions - I haven't received any feedback on my proposed banzukes - I don't have access to anasuya.com, so I could only upload the banzukes somewhere else and who knows if people are able to find them there If all else fails, I'm going to post the Toto banzukes through Haru 2007 here in the Games forum after the basho concludes. I'm hopeful that something more "official" can be worked out, though. Edited January 15, 2007 by Asashosakari
Golynohana Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 Sekitori Oracle is almost alive - on my computer. Just the basic functionality so far, but it will allow players to send their picks. Sekitori Q is a little bit more complex game but I will strive to prepare this game as well for Haru Basho.
Kintamayama Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 Sekitori Oracle is almost alive - on my computer. Just the basic functionality so far, but it will allow players to send their picks. Sekitori Q is a little bit more complex game but I will strive to prepare this game as well for Haru Basho. Excellent!!! I'm sure all gamers are waiting for this positive move. Thanks for your efforts!
Asashosakari Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 Sekitori Oracle is almost alive - on my computer. Just the basic functionality so far, but it will allow players to send their picks. Sekitori Q is a little bit more complex game but I will strive to prepare this game as well for Haru Basho. Hurray! I'll pre-emptively make an offer - I'll gladly do the Oracle scoring by hand (well, by Excel) if that's needed for Haru.
Ganzohnesushi Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) Sekitori Oracle is almost alive - on my computer. Just the basic functionality so far, but it will allow players to send their picks. Sekitori Q is a little bit more complex game but I will strive to prepare this game as well for Haru Basho. That's really great news, Golynohana (Clapping wildly...) Good to hear these Games are not dead at all and I'm very much looking forward to Haru Basho. And as already offered in a posting before, if any help in Banzuke making is required I'm ready to volunteer. These brilliant games must continue. Ganzohnesushi Edited January 15, 2007 by Ganzohnesushi
Fujisan Posted January 15, 2007 Author Posted January 15, 2007 SO and S4 are dead , for all intents and purposes. No point in discussing banzukes.. From my experience, dead games rarely come back. When I say dead, I don't mean those that change hands and go on without missing a beat as in UDH and Hoshitori. I mean like ODD sumo. The only game that went and came back after a long time was ISP, but that was because I was obsessed to bring it back, and Kofuji was kind enough to make it happen.Maybe someone with time, know-how and balls will bring these two S games back. Two basho is not a long time Kintamayama and did anyone ever ask Kojamuri if they could take Oddsumo over? How many other games have disappeared? I can only remember Oddsumo and Cybersumo.
Kintamayama Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Two basho is not a long time Kintamayama and did anyone ever ask Kojamuri if they could take Oddsumo over?How many other games have disappeared? I can only remember Oddsumo and Cybersumo. That's two out of not too many... And they ain't coming back. Two basho is an eternity in the life of a gamer. If anyone should know, you should know!!
Fujisan Posted January 21, 2007 Author Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) That's two out of not too many... And they ain't coming back. Two basho is an eternity in the life of a gamer. If anyone should know, you should know!! Are we writing Banzai off aswell then Moti? I know your not but I'm just making a point. To be honest I find Sekitori oracle a tough game to play but I love S Quad and so do many others. As for Banzai (Showing respect...) Enough said! P.S Thanks Golynohana and I repeat my previous offer if theres anything I can do that doesn't involve a lot of technical know how then I would love to help. Edited January 21, 2007 by Fujisan
Kintamayama Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Are we writing Banzai off aswell then Moti? I will be very patient today.. Banzai's owner is around and having technical problems. When and if he fixes them, it will return. S4, ODD and SO's caretakers, OTOH, are NOT. You are worried about one of them, as you yourself said. Hence the difference. People hesitate to take over a game that has to be built virtually from scratch. The stats are there, the Banzuke is there, but we ain't got no engine. The good news is that good people have promised to put in a brand new engine and make it run. We shall wait patiently. Edited January 21, 2007 by Kintamayama
Golynohana Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) P.S Thanks Golynohana and I repeat my previous offer if theres anything I can do that doesn't involve a lot of technical know how then I would love to help. I only wish someone will make all missing SO and SQ banzukes. Hurray! I'll pre-emptively make an offer - I'll gladly do the Oracle scoring by hand (well, by Excel) if that's needed for Haru. I would like scoring to be done automatically. If you have the formula for calculating win/loss records and other things, then I could 'tell' my application to use it for calculations of the scores. Edited January 21, 2007 by Golynohana
Fujisan Posted January 21, 2007 Author Posted January 21, 2007 I only wish someone will make all missing SO and SQ banzukes. If I someone gives me the relevant information I would be happy to.Where is Zenjimoto by the way?
Asashosakari Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) I only wish someone will make all missing SO and SQ banzukes. As I mentioned, I have those ready if needed, just without any Zenjimoto approval. I would like scoring to be done automatically. If you have the formula for calculating win/loss records and other things, then I could 'tell' my application to use it for calculations of the scores. Please send me an email through the forum interface with all the things you're looking for, and I'll see what I can do. :-P Edited January 21, 2007 by Asashosakari
Ganzohnesushi Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 Does it make sense to wait for Zenjimoto's approval any longer? Several weeks have passed by without any comment from his side. Obviously he has lost interest in these games or due to lack of time he is just not available. It is good to hear that Asashosakari has taken care of all the work on the Banzuke. If any help is required for the future I once again offer support :-P And hopefully Goloynohana's work will result in a running S4 and SO again in Haru. Ganzohnesushi
Ganzohnesushi Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 (edited) As I mentioned, I have those ready if needed, just without any Zenjimoto approval. Any update on this? Seems as if Zenjimoto has lost interest totally meanwhile. Several weeks have passed by without even a comment from him. Does it make sense to wait any longer? Ganzohnesushi Edited February 12, 2007 by Ganzohnesushi
Asashosakari Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 As I mentioned, I have those ready if needed, just without any Zenjimoto approval. Any update on this? Seems as if Zenjimoto has lost interest totally meanwhile. Several weeks have passed by without even a comment from him. Does it make sense to wait any longer? Ganzohnesushi We actually just hammered out the details over the last few days...I still need to get the HTML files ready (and finish up the Haru ST banzuke), but you should see a pretty comprehensive update sometime this week.
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