I count 4 this basho! (spoiler)

[Ossetian Yokozuna]

( Everybody can dislike any rikishi for any reason, but we should more polite with respect them. )

SalParadise -

It will be very kined of you to be more polite with respect to ROHO.

LOOK TO THE FUTURE.

[aderechelsea]

i am with Asashosakari in this one. I am definately not a henka hater but the situation with Roho has gone a bit too far.

he is not even injured to think that he avoids hurting himself more ... (or is he?)

[Azumashida]

I don't particularly like henka, but as long as it works, why not use it? And it's been working real well for Roho this basho, he's been using the trick to perfection. What I mean here is two things:

1) He's won each time he's henka'd (as far as I remember)

2) That has made some of his opponents be more wary with their tachi-ai, most notably the very henka-vulnerable Kokkai, and in that case Roho felt the situation well, went head-on and won clearly taking advantage of Kokkai's weak tachi-ai

So all these wins following henka can help Roho face explosive oshi-zumo guys like Kokkai or today's victim Dejima in the future. It may be unfair in some way, but the likes of Kokkai and Dejima can't just count on all their opponents never henka-ing, that would be too easy. Since they often get a huge advantage from their explosive but risky tachi-ai, it is only normal that they should every now and then also suffer the consequences of the vulnerability it entails.

[Phoenix]

I've never cared for Roho much at all, then all that crap with his temper and the reporters. But last basho I started to revise my low opinion of him. He was fighting well, showed better respect for his sport, Was doing good sumo. Now after all the crappy sumo this basho and his inabilty to win by anything but by Henka, I've lost what little respect he had earned and then some.

[Shibouyama]

I hope he gets demoted down to Jonokuchi and forced to start over for his nonsense.

A previous post by a really funny guy in a previous thread concerning a previous Roho controversy in a previous basho.

He deserves to be demoted back down to jonokuchi, then forced to fight all his bouts with 5 pound weights hanging from each testicle and giant crabs clinging to each nipple , then after a match instead of taking a bath he should be made to lie on a bed of nails with Konishiki sitting on his chest and Miyabiyama's sweaty armpit, flab flap sweat wiping hand towel placed over his face while having to listen to recordings of Takamisakari singing old enka tunes, THEN after a million, billion years of this he should be kicked out of sumo completely!!!!!

(In a state of confusion...)

[Shibouyama]

Personally, I find the henka, and the feline grace and agility required to leap deftly to the side as your opponent lumbers by like a drunken water buffalo, to be a thing of great beauty and poetry. It rivals ice skating in its smooth, flowing precision and dynamic athleticism. It is the epitome of athletic grace and beauty combined with the deadly power and focused destruction of a martial art. It is sublime, and zen-like in it's lucidity. Does not water yield, and yet what can resist it's will?

I propose a new name for this most masterful technique of the fighting arts:

The One-Handed Clap.

[SalParadise]

I don't quite give a shit what one thinks of a henka in la-la land of television watchers in the ether.

I was at the basho, paid good money for my ticket, and watched Roho deal his umpteenth henka to the disappointment of EVERYONE in the bloody audience. Nobody likes that sumo. Perhaps there are people who like a Roho win, but there was NOTHING beautiful about that sumo.

There are Makushita rikishi out there who provide better sumo quality than Roho does, and he's supposed to be a komosubi. He's supposed to be the type of rikishi that others look up to and aspire to become.

Instead he's become a rikishi who MANY Japanese fans despise, who seems more concerned with his win-loss record than actually showing good sumo.

I hope that if he ever gets a chance for promotion to Ozeki or Yokozuna, the Sumo Association shuts him down for the shit he's pulling in this basho, and others like it. This is absolute nonsense and shouldn't be tolerated or congratulated.

The Japanese around me, when I explained (with enthusiasm) Wakanoho's bout, all said, "Another Russian? I hope he loses. I hate Roho." Because he is so easy to hate, and doesn't try to make ANY concessions for the fans.

I hope that he is forced to retire out of shame of the MISERABLE performance that he's put on in Japan in the name of whatever Godforsaken thing it is he's after.

It's a pity that he's come to this, honestly, because with a better face forward, and a little more attention to the fans, maybe he could be more than the laughingstock of the foreign rikishi.

Even the Mongolians get more respect than he does.

[Shibouyama]

I don't quite give a shit what one thinks of a henka in la-la land of television watchers in the ether.

I was at the basho, paid good money for my ticket, and watched Roho deal his umpteenth henka to the disappointment of EVERYONE in the bloody audience. Nobody likes that sumo. Perhaps there are people who like a Roho win, but there was NOTHING beautiful about that sumo.

There are Makushita rikishi out there who provide better sumo quality than Roho does, and he's supposed to be a komosubi. He's supposed to be the type of rikishi that others look up to and aspire to become.

Instead he's become a rikishi who MANY Japanese fans despise, who seems more concerned with his win-loss record than actually showing good sumo.

I hope that if he ever gets a chance for promotion to Ozeki or Yokozuna, the Sumo Association shuts him down for the shit he's pulling in this basho, and others like it. This is absolute nonsense and shouldn't be tolerated or congratulated.

The Japanese around me, when I explained (with enthusiasm) Wakanoho's bout, all said, "Another Russian? I hope he loses. I hate Roho." Because he is so easy to hate, and doesn't try to make ANY concessions for the fans.

I hope that he is forced to retire out of shame of the MISERABLE performance that he's put on in Japan in the name of whatever Godforsaken thing it is he's after.

It's a pity that he's come to this, honestly, because with a better face forward, and a little more attention to the fans, maybe he could be more than the laughingstock of the foreign rikishi.

Even the Mongolians get more respect than he does.

:'-(

[Shibouyama]

I don't quite give a shit .....rant rant etc

:'-(

Think your humour went over someones head again. This is how you always get in trouble.

I know. Why can't I be more serious?

It seems like everyone takes sumo (and themselves) too seriously.

Eventually people will learn to take my more outrageous posts with a grain of salt.

It's all in good fun.

(In a state of confusion...)

[sekihiryu]

Day 14 was a pointless gutless display of sumo, is he injured? or is he just a pussy?

He is greedily protecting his rank and therefore his salary at all costs?

Roho: the Russian Phoenix? -this Basho its more like Rotori - the Russian Chicken.

[Sashohitowa]

...Maybe some of the forum members would even like if in the ozumo are implemented style marks? Like in Ice skating and Ski-jumps?

I don't want to go deep into "pro" and "anti" henka analysis - only want to say that I agree with OY - that Roho, despite everything, deserves a little bit more respect.

[sekihiryu]

Fight like a man and you will EARN respect. Tosanoumi, Musoyama, Dejima, Kaio. These are some men, sportsmen that I hold in high regard, I respect them for their honest hard sumo. Until Roho grows up and acts like a man and shows some 'hinkaku' then I will freely criticize him.

That is not sumo. If that was sumo then I quit as of right now as a sumo fan. A henka now and then is bearable, often the recipient deserved it.

Dejima didnt deserve it, Roho showed him no respect.

[Coo-cook]

Even the Mongolians get more respect than he does.

I don't know whether the Japanese feel so bad toward Mongolians.

But, your statement stinks.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Coo-cook

[Blue_Wolf]

yeah (Laughing...)

[Phoenix]

...Maybe some of the forum members would even like if in the ozumo are implemented style marks? Like in Ice skating and Ski-jumps?

I don't want to go deep into "pro" and "anti" henka analysis - only want to say that I agree with OY - that Roho, despite everything, deserves a little bit more respect.

I don't mind the OCCASSIONAL Henka, But I DO mind when someone resorts to it constantly! :-) Constantly IMHO is not good sumo just a way to win at any cost! Last basho Roho looked good, this basho he stinks big time!

[BuBa]

Even the Mongolians get more respect than he does.

After this statement, even Roho gets more respect than you do. Chill Sal.

[Jonosuke]

OK, guys, please calm down.

I am beginning to think this thread has reached its limit wheneven a sumo move gets associated with a certain ethnicity.

Regardless of your feeling towards certain rikishi, it has nothing to do with his sumo moves. So you meet a rikishi somewhere and he wasn't exactly friendly to you, well that has nothing to do with his sumo. So he looks at you in a wrong way, well deservedly or not it still does not mean he isn't a good rikishi.

I have seen hundreds of henkas in my life and just like any outcome from a bout, some loses and some wins. Nothing profound happens nor nothing of consecuence to debate over ages for or get your blood pressue up.

If you do hate it so much, I'd suggest you write to the offender's shisho, telling him that he is not teaching his recruit properly and is tarnishing Ozumo's image and sumo-doh as well as the national sport of Japan.

Roho is only working within the framework of his chosen field, whether his action now will turn out to be detriment to him or not is immaterial to all of us.

And that brings me to this story I heard on a local hard rock station a while back. After fininishing a song, U2's Bono started talking. The whole place got quiet down as the audience all wanted to hear what he had to say. Then Bono started clapping. Clapped once and then a second later another, and then another.

Then he said, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

The place was silenced and then some guy hollered to him, "Then stop clapping for christ's sake!"

[Shibouyama]

And that brings me to this story I heard on a local hard rock station a while back. After fininishing a song, U2's Bono started talking. The whole place got quiet down as the audience all wanted to hear what he had to say. Then Bono started clapping. Clapped once and then a second later another, and then another.

Then he said, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

The place was silenced and then some guy hollered to him, "Then stop clapping for christ's sake!"

Very, very funny. Thanks. :-)

Of course, if it had been a one-handed clap his story would have elicited great moans of sympathy and cries of moral outrage from the audience.

Shibonoyama: "Everytime I clap my hands, Roho does a henka."

Everybody else: Oh my god! The horror, the horror...

(Showing respect...)

[Manekineko]

Luciu Flavonius lecturing on nature of Ossetians and their cousins, as well as direct answers to that, are deleted.

U2 Off topic is moved to its own thread.

If you have to drag a rikishi through dirt, try not to take his whole nation with him. Thank you.

[maxim]

I've never cared for Roho much at all, then all that crap with his temper and the reporters. But last basho I started to revise my low opinion of him. He was fighting well, showed better respect for his sport, Was doing good sumo. Now after all the crappy sumo this basho and his inabilty to win by anything but by Henka, I've lost what little respect he had earned and then some.

Desperate times - desperate measures, Phoenix.

I'm sure Roho's sumo will improve.

[SalParadise]

First of all, an apology for language to those who were offended. I will do my 'darnedest' not to use any more profanity.

To restate, more plainly, for those easily offended and distracted by points fueled by alcohol and the passions of the moment:

I do not mind henka. They are part of the rules, love it or leave it. But I do not like them. I especially do not like watching them. I especially do not like watching them, consistently, from a specific rikishi. I especially do not like it when that rikishi is highly ranked and has proven that he is perfectly capable of winning without resorting to a henka.

I understand that it's just as much the responsibility of the person on the 'receiving' end of the henka to not fall for it. However, that doesn't make it any more enjoyable to watch a bout last a second, or make me respect that shiroboshi as if it were 'earned' in a more enjoyable way any more.

Like it or not, the way rikishi, highly visible foreigners act, reflects on how Japanese view them and other foreigners.

Whenever someone says something like that, I know it seems like a cop out, or some sort of 'bull-hockey' response. But to a large extent, it's true. I am a 'casual' sumo fan who enjoys going out to the basho, chatting with the people around me, cheering on my favourite rikishi, and seeing those few bouts a day where a rikishi pulls off something incredible. It really dampens my enthusiasm when people show their distaste for foreign rikishi because of the actions of very few.

The fact is that many Japanese sumo fans dislike the Mongolian rikishi. Valid opinion or not is irrelevant. The fact that such is a popular opinion remains. These people are, for a large part, the only foreigners of their respective countries that the sumo audience are acquainted with.

We can swap anecdotal evidence of how nice these people are in different situations, or how misunderstood they are, or make a slew of other excuses for their behaviour.

But at a fundamental level, when Roho relies on henka, it makes foreigners look bad, it makes for piss-poor sumo to watch, and it reflects poorly on Roho's abilities to many many fans.

So I'm sorry for not being clear, concise, and polite originally, but this is what I was trying to say. Roho should know better, having already been disciplined, and he shouldn't have given up his 'win back the fans' attitude that he was working on last basho.

I am rather certain that I am not the only fan who feels like Roho just blew the second chance he had after the last incident by producing poor sumo.

[Coo-cook]

The fact is that many Japanese sumo fans dislike the Mongolian rikishi.

What's the reason?

Because Asa pulled Shuzan's hair and smashed his car mirror a while ago

(and many Japanese think all Mongolians behave like Asa and they are still grudgy about this) ?

Or, because Asa henkaed Kisenosato (and many Japanese think all Mongolians do henka excessively or henka is only reserved for Japanese rikishi ) ?

Or, because Asa is somehow dominating their sport right now (and many Japanese think that all Mongolian rikishi would dominate their sport from now on) ?

What I'm trying to say here is: If you don't give a valid reason for your statement then it sounds like "many Japanese fans are racists , childish and stupid".

Is it true?

[Fay]

The fact is that many Japanese sumo fans dislike the Mongolian rikishi.

What's the reason?

What I'm trying to say here is: If you don't give a valid reason for your statement then it sounds like "many Japanese fans are racists , childish and stupid".

Is it true?

You can be sure that most of the japanese, european, australian ............. people are as smart as SalParadise ;-) and can distinguish between the behaviour and the sumostyle of a certain rikishi and all the other foreign rikishi and they don't lump together all foreign people.

The japanese Sumo fans I met in the last bashos nearly all respected the mongolian and foreign rikishi. Some of them and an oyakata said to me that they are an example for young japanese rikishi, cause they work hard for their dream.

The japanese sumo fans may like the japanese more and they are not happy for not having a japanese yokozuna but that's another story.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Fay

[Coo-cook]

The fact is that many Japanese sumo fans dislike the Mongolian rikishi.

What's the reason?

What I'm trying to say here is: If you don't give a valid reason for your statement then it sounds like "many Japanese fans are racists , childish and stupid".

Is it true?

You can be sure that most of the japanese, european, australian ............. people are as smart as SalParadise and can distinguish between the behaviour and the sumostyle of a certain rikishi and all the other foreign rikishi and they don't lump together all foreign people.

The japanese Sumo fans I met in the last bashos nearly all respected the mongolian and foreign rikishi. Some of them and an oyakata said to me that they are an example for young japanese rikishi, cause they work hard for their dream.

The japanese sumo fans may like the japanese more and they are not happy for not having a japanese yokozuna but that's another story.

Fay,

I was just "confronting" SalParadise for his statement, which was a bit overboard, I think.

[Jonosuke]

But at a fundamental level, when Roho relies on henka, it makes foreigners look bad

Well with your analogy, Hokutoriki makes all Japaese rikihis look bad? Are you implying that sumo fans cannot go beyond where the rikishis come from? Everyone knows where a rikishi comes from as his name and where he is hailing from are announced but that's as far as it goes.

Sumo fans know many rikishis' sumo style. Ama's sumo style is quite a bit different from Kyokushuzan's for instance even though they come from the same country.

It's true that fans come to see competitive sumo but they also know rikishis will need to do everything they can to win. And that includes a henka. From time to time most rikishis will do it but you can't hate the rikishis for it.

Personally I feel Roho has enough power and ability to win a yusho someday and even make an ozeki. As his fan, I want him to show his true ability but he has to learn all that by himself.

And you do not get that defensive about Roho's on-dohyo behaviour reflecting on all "foreigners". There are so many "foreigners" admired in Ozumo and the fans are well aware of them.