Asashoryu vs Hakuho

[Peterao]

In anticipation of today's musubi no ichiban, here are the first ten matches in the Asashoryu vs Hakuho series, from 2004 Aki basho to 2006 Haru basho, condensed in a nice 3 minute package.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoNyyG4axH8

Interesting to see this feud develop. Can you imagine Hakuho pulling a henka on Asashoryu now?

[Ryukaze]

Can you imagine Hakuho pulling a henka on Asashoryu now?

What exactly do you mean by this?

[Peterao]

I mean that I cannot imagine Hakuho trying a henka on Asashoryu now.

[Ryukaze]

Im just having trouble remembering when he's ever done this......... (Annoyed...)

[Peterao]

If you watch the video I posted, you will see the henka that Hakuho tried (without much success, except in making Asashoryu mad) in 2005 Kyushu basho.

I miss Asashoryu's golden mawashi...

[aderechelsea]

i'll be waiting for comments by people who get to see replays.

was it so clear? no mono-ii?

EDIT: i have to mention the thing that struck my while watching the bout and the compilation video with all their matchups up to date. The have a great motion flow in their bouts. They lock in their favourite position and then the bout seems like it is between 2 equal opponents. Asashoryu prefers to stay more static in the bout and hakuho kind of circles around to find the best spot for an attack.

Amazing Sumo between these two guys and i hope they'll remain healthy in the future to provide such great entertainment.

Definately the best match-up is today's Sumo.

Edited September 24, 2006 by aderechelsea

[Zuikakuyama]

i'll be waiting for comments by people who get to see replays.

was it so clear? no mono-ii?

EDIT: i have to mention the thing that struck my while watching the bout and the compilation video with all their matchups up to date. The have a great motion flow in their bouts. They lock in their favourite position and then the bout seems like it is between 2 equal opponents. Asashoryu prefers to stay more static in the bout and hakuho kind of circles around to find the best spot for an attack.

Amazing Sumo between these two guys and i hope they'll remain healthy in the future to provide such great entertainment.

Definately the best match-up is today's Sumo.

Hakuho was too defensive today.

He fell on his back first, while shoryu was flying off the dohyo and airborne. Not too sure if Shoryu broke the plane of the dohyo first (not that it mattered any).

Shoryu made sure of that by giving a final shove with his left hand while he was flying off.

[Shibouyama]

Asashoryu prefers to stay more static in the bout and hakuho kind of circles around to find the best spot for an attack.

It seems to me that while a lot of rikishi , once they get locked into a static position, will sit and wait and catch their breath, and many (usually the losers) will wait too long and lose the chance at getting the initiative, not Asashoryu, he waits a little bit then tries to force the situation.

Like Zuikakuyama said, "Hakuho was too defensive...", but that seems to be the norm when both rikishi get good grips and lock up in the middle of the dohyo. Asashoryu is the guy that never plays it defensively and always pushes the game forward. What a great wrestler!

:-) :-( :-) (Clapping wildly...)

[Hananotaka]

He fell on his back first, while shoryu was flying off the dohyo and airborne. Not too sure if Shoryu broke the plane of the dohyo first (not that it mattered any).

It doesn't. The only plane that matters is the vertical one marked by the tawara.

[s0101]

...

Like Zuikakuyama said, "Hakuho was too defensive...", but that seems to be the norm when both rikishi get good grips and lock up in the middle of the dohyo. Asashoryu is the guy that never plays it defensively and always pushes the game forward...

I never thought Asashoury much of an offensive minded rikishi. Yeah, looking back at video clips, he mostly takes an action first, rather than giving it to his opponents from a locked position.

It's good to see him giving his respect to the dohyo after the last bout.

[Ryukaze]

He fell on his back first, while shoryu was flying off the dohyo and airborne. Not too sure if Shoryu broke the plane of the dohyo first (not that it mattered any).

I thought this had already been discussed previously? That breaking the plane does not count, it is until the rikishi touches the ground down and outside the dohyo, (perhaps giving the guy who goes flying out an advantage as opposed the guy who just goes down on top of the dohyo.)

Edited September 24, 2006 by Ryukaze

[Shibouyama]

I never thought Asashoury much of an offensive minded rikishi. Yeah, looking back at video clips, he mostly takes an action first

Funny.

Uhh... kinda hard to win 18 yusho without being 'offensive minded.'

(Clapping wildly...)

Asashoryu is the most aggressive wrestler out there. Boggles the mind how anyone could not see him as very offense oriented.

(Clapping wildly...)

For that matter, most rikishi are offensive rather than defensive. How many defensive wrestlers could you name? I can think of a few, but not too many.

[s0101]

Funny.

Uhh... kinda hard to win 18 yusho without being 'offensive minded.'

:-)

I made you laugh? I

[Kintamayama]

i'll be waiting for comments by people who get to see replays.

was it so clear? no mono-ii?

I had the feeling that Asa himself thought he LOST right after the bout. Watching the fuzzy wuzzy, it seemed to me he was amazed when he realized he won. Dale's movie shows his immediate reaction, and it looks like he is dejected for a moment there.

To me.

[aderechelsea]

and there's always the pic in the other thread ... hmmmm

i don't see any kabai-te in his situation really.

well ... whatever. Not that it matters anyway.

[paolo]

Hakuho makes a wonderful move at the end, trying to throw Asashoryu on a side. Asashoryu loses his left grip and is very scared, and he desperately tries to push Hakuho away. Hakuho's move succeeds, and it is very hard to decide if there is a winner and who the winner is... But a question arises in my opinion: it seems to me that the whole bout develops on the base of Asashoryu's left grip, by which he intends to keep pressure on Hakuho. But Hakuho' s mawashi is too loose and raises, so that the grip is much less efficient. The question is: is a rikishi allowed to keep to loose a mawashi ? Because it clearly prevents the opponent from doing certain moves and follow his strategy..... can somebody explain this to me ? Thanks !

[aderechelsea]

a loose mawashi is definately inside the game's strategy.

ask Musoyama ;-)

[AsaMoe]

a loose mawashi is definately inside the game's strategy.

Losing a mawashi definitely leeds to an imidiate loss.

Actually i have asked something like that a good year from now and the answer from the experts was, that a loose mawashi could also be an advantage to the other rikishi, because it is easier to grip and hold it.

Well, you

[aderechelsea]

Tochiazuma is the epitomy of defensive Sumo.

Asasekiryu, Takamisakari and Kyokushuzan also like to use their opponents momentum in their bouts. They let the other guy make a move and act accordingly.

[SalParadise]

Kaio and the like wet the mawashi to make it tighter, so that it's harder to get a good grip. Each style has its benefits and downsides. For a mawashi fighter like Kaio, it probably helps to have a tighter mawashi to perhaps gain that extra instant when he has the grip and his opponent doesn't to pull of a throw or whatnot. Definitely part of the game. It's like using a different length/weight bat in baseball -- has advantages and disadvantages either way.

[Shomishuu]

For defensive sumo, the retired ozeki Takanonami was the best example I can recall. He nearly always waited for his opponent to take the offensive and then counter-attacked. I always thought Tochiazuma's reliance on ottsuke was defensive but I have changed my mind about that now, mostly because he's so good at using it to get his aite off balance, it becomes an offensive weapon for him. It looks like Homasho shows signs of wanting to be like Tochiazuma, but he is just too defensive at this point, and he's getting blown out because of it. Asasekiryu, Takamisakari and Kyokushuzan are all good examples of defensive rikishi.

[paolo]

Just to add a word to the "plan of the dohyo" matter, I am puzzled by what follows:

as far as I see, the final part of the Asashoryu-Hakuho bout takes place near the NorthEast corner. Asashoryu flies over the East side and does not touch the dohyo because the part of the dohyo outside the tawara is very small there: so Yoritaoshi win for Asashoryu... If everyting had gone exactly in the same way, but close to the North side instead than close to the NorthEast corner, Asashoryu would have certainly touched the NorthEast corner of the dohyo outside the tawara before Hakuho: so Uwatenage win for Hakuho ! If the above is correct, this would mean that the difference between the two results is not due to the moves but only to the fact that the dohyo is a square OUTSIDE the real fighting area which is INSIDE the tawara! This sound unbelievable ! Is there a place where the rule is CLEARLY defined ?

[Hananotaka]

Just to add a word to the "plan of the dohyo" matter, I am puzzled by what follows:

as far as I see, the final part of the Asashoryu-Hakuho bout takes place near the NorthEast corner. Asashoryu flies over the East side and does not touch the dohyo because the part of the dohyo outside the tawara is very small there: so Yoritaoshi win for Asashoryu... If everyting had gone exactly in the same way, but close to the North side instead than close to the NorthEast corner, Asashoryu would have certainly touched the NorthEast corner of the dohyo outside the tawara before Hakuho: so Uwatenage win for Hakuho ! If the above is correct, this would mean that the difference between the two results is not due to the moves but only to the fact that the dohyo is a square OUTSIDE the real fighting area which is INSIDE the tawara! This sound unbelievable ! Is there a place where the rule is CLEARLY defined ?

The rules, such as they are defined, are in the Ozumo discussion forum, in the "ozumo rules" thread. The shape of the dohyo is indeed a factor.

In truth, I fail to see why there wasn't a mono-ii at the least, as I think this was a pretty clear case of "doutai". I agree with Kintamayama that Asa had his "I lost; how did that happen?" face. But the shimpan tend to give the benefit of the doubt to 1) rikishi on the offensive, and 2) yokozuna, so I guess that's what happened here.

[sumofan]

a loose mawashi is definately inside the game's strategy.

ask Musoyama (Punk rocker...)

Aka: 'He who wears his mawashi under his armpits after a bout'