About Kototenta (split from Canadian Sumo Hopeful)

[Orion]

Looking the videoclips, Brodi seems to be promising for professional sumo.

I wish him a successful start and hopefully he follows the steps of the only other Canadian sumo wrestler, who came from British Columbia as well, the late Kototenzan, aka Kototenta who started unbelievably well 21:0 - 3 basho, 3 Zensho Yusho, but couldn't adapt to the Japanese style of life and quit undefeated.

I hope Brodi will do well and will surpass Kototenta's achievements. Good luck young man!

Oshirokita and Itachi must be trilled with the debut of their countryman, representing their province British Columbia.

And at the end my guess for his shikona (a long stretch) Takayuki Hakurojishi (a blend of Hakuo and Kurojishi, the name is like Takayuki Kurojishi).

Not quite. He rocketed up the banzuke because he was bigger and more experienced that his opposition. But when he was in top makushita I escorted a Canadian husband-and-wife team of photographers to a keiko session and it was very clear that he had finally arrived at a level where he was meeting real opposition -- and not doing at all well. For the first time he was losing a lot more than he was winning, and I could see it in his face. Plus, of course, the relationship with the rather plain lady who had been assigned to help him with his Japanese. There were a number of factors at work there. For me the best thing about that day was the master (former Kotozakura who was one of the three yokozuna active when I first started watching live sumo) inviting us to chanko lunch and chatting with me throughout. The two photographers were, of course, very unhappy when Tenta quit shortly afterwards and all the film they had shot was largely valueless.

Orion

[Achiyama]

Looking the videoclips, Brodi seems to be promising for professional sumo.

I wish him a successful start and hopefully he follows the steps of the only other Canadian sumo wrestler, who came from British Columbia as well, the late Kototenzan, aka Kototenta who started unbelievably well 21:0 - 3 basho, 3 Zensho Yusho, but couldn't adapt to the Japanese style of life and quit undefeated.

I hope Brodi will do well and will surpass Kototenta's achievements. Good luck young man!

Oshirokita and Itachi must be trilled with the debut of their countryman, representing their province British Columbia.

And at the end my guess for his shikona (a long stretch) Takayuki Hakurojishi (a blend of Hakuo and Kurojishi, the name is like Takayuki Kurojishi).

Not quite. He rocketed up the banzuke because he was bigger and more experienced that his opposition. But when he was in top makushita I escorted a Canadian husband-and-wife team of photographers to a keiko session and it was very clear that he had finally arrived at a level where he was meeting real opposition -- and not doing at all well. For the first time he was losing a lot more than he was winning, and I could see it in his face. Plus, of course, the relationship with the rather plain lady who had been assigned to help him with his Japanese. There were a number of factors at work there. For me the best thing about that day was the master (former Kotozakura who was one of the three yokozuna active when I first started watching live sumo) inviting us to chanko lunch and chatting with me throughout. The two photographers were, of course, very unhappy when Tenta quit shortly afterwards and all the film they had shot was largely valueless.

Orion

Good to know details from a person who witnessed Tenta's life as a sumo wrestler. Thanks.

My posting is based on stats and what I have read on the Internet.

I don't understand "Not quite" is about whether Brodi can fill Tenta's shoes or about the reasons why Tenta quit sumo.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Achiyama

[I am the Yokozuna]

1) it was very clear that he had finally arrived at a level where he was meeting real opposition -- and not doing at all well. For the first time he was losing a lot more than he was winning, and I could see it in his face. 2) Plus, of course, the relationship with the rather plain lady who had been assigned to help him with his Japanese.

I find 1) hardly believable, borderline fantasy stuff. And 2) for me is quite condescending and judgemental. So I would dismiss your "memories" outright as lies.

[Asameshimae]

What is so outrageous about number 1? She is just remembering an observation from her memories. Is it so condescending? I've read worse things said about rikishi in this forum. Do you have some special attachment to Kototenta?

[Adil]

I find 1) hardly believable, borderline fantasy stuff. And 2) for me is quite condescending and judgemental. So I would dismiss your "memories" outright as lies.

Wow! That is one strongly worded response. Like Asameshimae, I'm wondering what's the reason for it.

[Andreas21]

About Kototenta.

His story told by Andy Adams makes perfect sense to me. Demanding to remove the tattoo can be way to much to somebody who identifies with it. Quite an intrusion into personality. Then the minor injuries which ought to be overcome by gambarizing, also not so easy to get on with. Then Heya life ... could indeed be cultural shock for someone from North America.

That finding opposition stronger than him made him retire - that is indeed hard to believe. Why didn't he find out earlier? I rather believe he knew it in the first week of Keiko in a Heya like Sadogatake: at that time there were 8 Makushita, 1 Juryo and the Meagashira 1 available. Did he expect to become Yokozuna right away? He would have to be immensely naive then.

[Asashosakari]

That finding opposition stronger than him made him retire - that is indeed hard to believe. Why didn't he find out earlier? I rather believe he knew it in the first week of Keiko in a Heya like Sadogatake: at that time there were 8 Makushita, 1 Juryo and the Meagashira 1 available.

In a heya with almost 50 rikishi at the time, I'd be a bit surprised if newcomers were allowed to train with makushita and sekitori right away. Besides, he might well have expected that he would learn the craft quickly enough to deal with makushita once he would get there (which did take the usual 8 months for Mz-Sd after all), and then had a rude awakening that makushita was going to be much harder to get through than the lower divisions after all. I don't find it hard to believe at all that he might have concluded "Two more years of this? No thanks." considering he was already struggling with heya life.

[Kishinoyama]

About Kototenta.

His story told by Andy Adams makes perfect sense to me. Demanding to remove the tattoo can be way to much to somebody who identifies with it. Quite an intrusion into personality. Then the minor injuries which ought to be overcome by gambarizing, also not so easy to get on with. Then Heya life ... could indeed be cultural shock for someone from North America.

Check out this post. It has page scans of old Sumo World articles about Kototenta: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9495&hl=%2BJohn+%2BTenta+%2Bsumo+%2Bworld#entry86287

Edited February 24, 2015 by Kishinoyama

[Andreas21]

Kishinoyama, thanks a lot for the link to the articles. Interesting stuff!

So, in his own words, Tenta quit because he couldn't accept the lifestyle, but then: "I was getting injuries I was getting before-to my ankle, to my knees. ... I felt I wouldn't last long in Sumo."

had a rude awakening that makushita was going to be much harder to get through

Further the interview: "That's (losing to guys you were beating regularly before) not correct. Right to the end I was beating all of the Makushita and splitting 50-50 with Kotoinazuma, who's now in Juryo. In fact, the only one I couldn't beat was Kotogaume (Sekiwake in Sept 86) and I was beginning to give him a good fight sometimes."

Doesn't sound very desperate to me.

I'd be a bit surprised if newcomers were allowed to train with makushita and sekitori right away

But he was special right from the start, wasn't he? If he throws Jd, Sd rikishi around with ease, the sensible oyataka gives him something to chew. And the statement above sounds like he had lots of practice bouts with the stable's top Sekitori.

Anyway, for my part, I believe Tenta's words, and the bottom line is injuries, occured and feared, and long-term health.

[Chiyozakura]

Kishinoyama, thanks a lot for the link to the articles. Interesting stuff!

So, in his own words, Tenta quit because he couldn't accept the lifestyle, but then: "I was getting injuries I was getting before-to my ankle, to my knees. ... I felt I wouldn't last long in Sumo."

had a rude awakening that makushita was going to be much harder to get through

Further the interview: "That's (losing to guys you were beating regularly before) not correct. Right to the end I was beating all of the Makushita and splitting 50-50 with Kotoinazuma, who's now in Juryo. In fact, the only one I couldn't beat was Kotogaume (Sekiwake in Sept 86) and I was beginning to give him a good fight sometimes."

Doesn't sound very desperate to me.

I'd be a bit surprised if newcomers were allowed to train with makushita and sekitori right away

But he was special right from the start, wasn't he? If he throws Jd, Sd rikishi around with ease, the sensible oyataka gives him something to chew. And the statement above sounds like he had lots of practice bouts with the stable's top Sekitori.

Anyway, for my part, I believe Tenta's words, and the bottom line is injuries, occured and feared, and long-term health.

I remember interviews from Tenta where he said that he was getting minor injuries and realized that if he got a major injury there would be no help in sumo. If you are injured you lose your status and you do not earn any money anymore. In pro wrestling on the other hand there was a guarantee sum in his contract so that even if he were forced to sit out a certain time he would at least earn enough to support a family. So he chose to quit and take a safer road.

[Asashosakari]

In pro wrestling on the other hand there was a guarantee sum in his contract so that even if he were forced to sit out a certain time he would at least earn enough to support a family. So he chose to quit and take a safer road.

That's quite an optimistic/embellished-by-hindsight view of late 1980s pro-wrestling. In America, the very top stars might have received such guarantees, but that's it. In the Japanese puroresu scene I'd be a bit surprised about guarantees there, too, considering foreign wrestlers were usually contracted only for limited tours, not full-time - you don't work, you don't get paid. It might have been true for his first contract with AJPW, but I suspect that was as much due to name recognition from his sumo days as anything; I doubt it would have been worth the paper it was written on if he hadn't performed well or not performed at all, and I also doubt that run-of-the-mill trainees would receive such guarantees in the first place.

Not that it necessarily applied to John Tenta, but anyone who considered a career in pro wrestling back then based on promises of guaranteed money was either very naive or very optimistic about his own chances of becoming a superstar. In his case it worked out very well, but if anyone cared to write about them there would be dozens of life stories where it didn't. (Not that this is limited to pro wrestling among athleticism-based endeavours, of course.)

Edited February 24, 2015 by Asashosakari

[Asojima]

Mods.... It appears that we need a Kototenta split from this topic.

Moderator Notice

Done.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jakusotsu

[Orion]

About Kototenta.

His story told by Andy Adams makes perfect sense to me. Demanding to remove the tattoo can be way to much to somebody who identifies with it. Quite an intrusion into personality. Then the minor injuries which ought to be overcome by gambarizing, also not so easy to get on with. Then Heya life ... could indeed be cultural shock for someone from North America.

Check out this post. It has page scans of old Sumo World articles about Kototenta: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9495&hl=%2BJohn+%2BTenta+%2Bsumo+%2Bworld#entry86287

Thanks for this! There's a whole lot more detail than I recalled earlier in this thread -- including the fact that I'd interviewed him.

:-/

Orion

[Orion]

About Kototenta.

His story told by Andy Adams makes perfect sense to me. Demanding to remove the tattoo can be way to much to somebody who identifies with it. Quite an intrusion into personality. Then the minor injuries which ought to be overcome by gambarizing, also not so easy to get on with. Then Heya life ... could indeed be cultural shock for someone from North America.

Check out this post. It has page scans of old Sumo World articles about Kototenta: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9495&hl=%2BJohn+%2BTenta+%2Bsumo+%2Bworld#entry86287

Thanks for this! There's a whole lot more detail than I recalled earlier in this thread -- including the fact that I'd interviewed him.

:-/

Orion

Oops! stupid of me -- I never think of David Shapiro as "DS" -- I should have remembered that I hardly ever took part in the Sumo World's Round Table. At least I'm not going soft in the head, just a bit absent-minded ...

Orion

[Kishinoyama]

Oops! stupid of me -- I never think of David Shapiro as "DS" -- I should have remembered that I hardly ever took part in the Sumo World's Round Table. At least I'm not going soft in the head, just a bit absent-minded ...

Orion

I was wondering what you were referring too. I did not see your name associated with any of the articles. :-)

[Orion]

Oops! stupid of me -- I never think of David Shapiro as "DS" -- I should have remembered that I hardly ever took part in the Sumo World's Round Table. At least I'm not going soft in the head, just a bit absent-minded ...

Orion

I was wondering what you were referring too. I did not see your name associated with any of the articles. :-)

I didn't have a lot of time; I did just one click, on the last of the series, and it turned up the final page. That was all I read, and apart from the line about an interview everything ascribed to DS could have been me. ;-)

Orion

[Masukuratto]

Is there any footage out there of Kototenzan?