Manekineko Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 In short: does it (yumitori-shiki) take place when there is no yokozuna on the banzuke? And if so, how is the guy doing the twirling chosen? (usualy the rikishi comes from the same stable as one of the yokozuna...)
Yubiquitoyama Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 In short: does it (yumitori-shiki) take place when there is no yokozuna on the banzuke? And if so, how is the guy doing the twirling chosen? (usualy the rikishi comes from the same stable as one of the yokozuna...) I don't really know the answer to this, but here is what I think: The yumitori-shiki is done whether or not there is a yokozuna on the banzuke. Regardless of its history, that ceremony is not particularly dependent of there being a yokozuna, so it would surprise me a lot if it wasn't performed as usual. Regarding who does the yumitori-shiki, I would suspect the last guy who did it continues to do so, and that the problem of choosing someone only comes up when he has to quit for one reason or another, and I don't think it has really ever come up yet, although I'm not sure. Will Musashifuji continue doing the ceremony btw, now that Musashimaru has quit? I would guess that he will, at least for a while, but I haven't read anything about it.
Kotoseiya Yuichi Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 My impressions are the same as Yubi's. I doubt toriteki from Takasago is being prepared for the job until Musashifuji aims to stop doing yumitori-shiki for whatever reason.
Kintamayama Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 My impressions are the same as Yubi's. I doubt toriteki from Takasago is being prepared for the job until Musashifuji aims to stop doing yumitori-shiki for whatever reason. I disagree. I say two bashos tops and it's a new Takasago guy.
Asashosakari Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 I disagree. I say two bashos tops and it's a new Takasago guy. I'm inclined to agree. Based on the usual criteria, I guess Oga is the only one who qualifies...all the other Takasago guys in Makushita and upper Sandanme are 22 or younger, with the exception of Kimenryu who's already 34...
Kintamayama Posted December 29, 2003 Posted December 29, 2003 (edited) I'm inclined to agree. Based on the usual criteria, I guess Oga is the only one who qualifies...all the other Takasago guys in Makushita and upper Sandanme are 22 or younger, with the exception of Kimenryu who's already 34... Well, I think Ichinoya should get the nod, but.. BTW, he turned 43 today/yesterday (the 28th). Edited December 29, 2003 by Kintamayama
Manekineko Posted December 29, 2003 Author Posted December 29, 2003 I disagree. I say two bashos tops and it's a new Takasago guy. Unless Musoyama grabs the tsuna... (Enjoying a beer...)
Asashosakari Posted December 29, 2003 Posted December 29, 2003 Well, I think Ichinoya should get the nod, but..BTW, he turned 43 today/yesterday (the 28th). Hey, works for me. (Enjoying a beer...) Happy birthday to Ichinoya!
Yubiquitoyama Posted December 30, 2003 Posted December 30, 2003 (edited) I disagree. I say two bashos tops and it's a new Takasago guy. I'm inclined to agree. Based on the usual criteria, I guess Oga is the only one who qualifies...all the other Takasago guys in Makushita and upper Sandanme are 22 or younger, with the exception of Kimenryu who's already 34... I could actually see someone like Daigonishiki do the yumitori-shiki too. Oga is rather high ranked and could well soon become sekitori (which is not necessarily stopping him from doing the yumitori-shiki, but given what some see as the "curse" of being appointed yumitori-shiki rikishi, maybe someone still within reach of sekitori-hood is avoided). Not having reached Makushita does not necessarily prevent someone from being appointed yumitori-shiki rikishi. I think Edonohana who did the yumitori-shiki for some 7 or 8 years during the 70s never ever reached Makushita, much less had been there when first appointed to the task... Edited December 30, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama
Asashosakari Posted December 31, 2003 Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) I could actually see someone like Daigonishiki do the yumitori-shiki too. Oga is rather high ranked and could well soon become sekitori (which is not necessarily stopping him from doing the yumitori-shiki, but given what some see as the "curse" of being appointed yumitori-shiki rikishi, maybe someone still within reach of sekitori-hood is avoided). Or Oga, presented with the threat of being picked as the next yumitori rikishi (and thus end up 'cursed'), will finally make the push to become a sekitori quickly before they can pick him. :-D The main reason I named him was, looking at his records over the last two years or so, he hasn't really achieved much whenever he got up to around Ms20, so he seemed like the classical going-nowhere rikishi perfect for yumitori-shiki duty. But maybe he'll surprise me and get a kachi-koshi in Hatsu. (Clapping wildly...) Do you have the birthdates (or at least years) for the previous guys? I'd be curious to know how old they were when each one was chosen to do the yumitori-shiki. Just wondering if perhaps Kimenryu might still be in the running at age 34, after all... Edit: As an aside, Takasago-beya sure is a pretty "young" stable...almost 20 toriteki and only a handful of them born before 1980. Could it become this decade's Futagoyama in a few years? Of course, perhaps I'm being more optimistic for their bunch of lower-Makushita and upper-Sandanme rikishi than is warranted... Edited December 31, 2003 by Asashosakari
Yubiquitoyama Posted December 31, 2003 Posted December 31, 2003 Do you have the birthdates (or at least years) for the previous guys? I'd be curious to know how old they were when each one was chosen to do the yumitori-shiki. Just wondering if perhaps Kimenryu might still be in the running at age 34, after all... Interesting question. I'm quite sure that Musashifuji himself was older than usual when starting, and it would surprise me if there has been anyone starting at over 30 at least since the yumitori-shiki ceremony came to be after every day of the basho. Still, it is an interesting question, and my greatest problem is that I have no complete list of who have done the yumitori these last 40 years. If anyone happens to have a book with a complete list, it would be VERY nice... :-D
Kotoseiya Yuichi Posted December 31, 2003 Posted December 31, 2003 If anyone happens to have a book with a complete list, it would be VERY nice... (Clapping wildly...) Seconded! :-D
Yubiquitoyama Posted January 1, 2004 Posted January 1, 2004 (edited) Do you have the birthdates (or at least years) for the previous guys? I'd be curious to know how old they were when each one was chosen to do the yumitori-shiki. Just wondering if perhaps Kimenryu might still be in the running at age 34, after all... I think someone aged 34 could be appointed, regardless of whether it has happened before, especially when there are no better or even good candidates, since there have been quite a few yumitori-shiki rikishi who have done the ceremony for only short periods of time. The reason I write this extra post though is some speculation (yes: SPECULATION, but maybe still not completely pointless...) based on something that struck me today: Recently, as reported here (or maybe not? don't remember if it was only on the mailing list), the Kyokai solved two problems (too much work, too many elderly rikishi filling up the lower ranks) in one go just recently. Whether or not this is a repeat, here is the original post of Joe Kuroda: Chairman Kitanoumi oyakata interviewed five activerikishis at Kokugikan and appointed all of them to hire as "Sewa-nin", caretaker-managers to help out operations during Hon-bashos and Jyungyo tours. A Sewanin is a qualified former sekitori or Makushita rikishi who is deemed to be considered to have a good fit for the work of managing and transporting sumo related equipments. Edited January 1, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama
Kintamayama Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 Well, as I saw it,and Asashosakari actually named him, there is a new Yumitorishiki rikishi- Ouga from Takasago.
Mark Buckton Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 My impressions are the same as Yubi's. I doubt toriteki from Takasago is being prepared for the job until Musashifuji aims to stop doing yumitori-shiki for whatever reason. Musashifuji was injured doing the job on the last day last year. Oga began yesterday and was great - didn't twirl today though. ANR
Yubiquitoyama Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 My impressions are the same as Yubi's. I doubt toriteki from Takasago is being prepared for the job until Musashifuji aims to stop doing yumitori-shiki for whatever reason. Musashifuji was injured doing the job on the last day last year. Oga began yesterday and was great - didn't twirl today though. ANR Who did it today?
Mark Buckton Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 My impressions are the same as Yubi's. I doubt toriteki from Takasago is being prepared for the job until Musashifuji aims to stop doing yumitori-shiki for whatever reason. Musashifuji was injured doing the job on the last day last year. Oga began yesterday and was great - didn't twirl today though. ANR Who did it today? Oga did. The 'didn't twirl today' bit must have been unclear but it means that not all days follow the same pattern / technique with the 'yumi'. In comparison to yesterday, today's was quite subdued - to the right - spinning near the dohyo, to the left and behind the head. ANR
Doitsuyama Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 The 'didn't twirl today' bit must have been unclear but it means that not all days follow the same pattern / technique with the 'yumi'. In comparison to yesterday, today's was quite subdued - to the right - spinning near the dohyo, to the left and behind the head.ANR Sorry, if I still don't understand you. I just watched the yumitori-shiki on my recorded stream and it looked absolutely normal to me, not subdued at all. Don't know where you got this impression from.
Yoavoshimaru Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 Does the yumitori-shiki rikishi get a financial bonus as well, or simply the honor?
Kintamayama Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 Does the yumitori-shiki rikishi get a financial bonus as well, or simply the honor? He is allowed to use the bow as a skewer at the heya barbecue, I've heard.
Mark Buckton Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 The 'didn't twirl today' bit must have been unclear but it means that not all days follow the same pattern / technique with the 'yumi'. In comparison to yesterday, today's was quite subdued - to the right - spinning near the dohyo, to the left and behind the head.ANR Sorry, if I still don't understand you. I just watched the yumitori-shiki on my recorded stream and it looked absolutely normal to me, not subdued at all. Don't know where you got this impression from. Today had no twirling above the head (the very impressive and high possibility of dropping it type) on live NHK. Something I have on video. ANR - even Doreen Simmons commented on it.
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