Aim For Yokozuna

[Zeokage]

It seems that after all those changes that the Aim For Yokozuna series is gone. Problem is, after a whole year of inactivity, I've forgotten what some of the 4 games were originally, and whether they would work if they were retried in English.

I can remember that there was one where you chose 2 rikishi, and the wins of one plus the losses of the other counted as your wins and vice-versa. Another was practically the TAKA G-1 Game (G2?), the third was a version of ISP (Yoso Taikai 1/3?), I can't remember the fourth at all. The other two names were Ranking Sen and PEG.

So... what games went with which name, and how do you think they would fare if re-tried in English? I know only a few people here played them...

[Kintamayama]

It seems that after all those changes that the Aim For Yokozuna series is gone. Problem is, after a whole year of inactivity, I've forgotten what some of the 4 games were originally, and whether they would work if they were retried in English.

I can remember that there was one where you chose 2 rikishi, and the wins of one plus the losses of the other counted as your wins and vice-versa. Another was practically the TAKA G-1 Game (G2?), the third was a version of ISP (Yoso Taikai 1/3?), I can't remember the fourth at all. The other two names were Ranking Sen and PEG.

So... what games went with which name, and how do you think they would fare if re-tried in English? I know only a few people here played them...

I really don't remember, as it was changed a lot towards the end. G2 was G1 for Juryo. The wins and losses one as you pointed out was another, an exact ISP clone was there as well. I don't remember the rest..

[Susanoo]

In the past, I had introduced it simply.

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?...amp;#entry72874

If more detailed explanation is required, please feel free to ask.

[Zeokage]

http://www.enjoy.ne.jp/~pero/

Four sorts of all games are targetting Juryo.

PEG (Juryo edition of the POG Game)

予想大会1/3 (Juryo edition of the ISP Game)

G2 (Juryo edition of the G1 Game)

ランキング戦 All gamers choose 2 Juryo rikishi (one rikishi you feel win most ,and one rikishi you feel lose most.) :-D

Thanks Susanoo! (I am not worthy...)

So the only one that would seem original is the Ranking-Sen game. Using the description there, how do you all think it would fare in English? I might test it out here next basho, possibly extending the number to choose from.

EDIT: Just to satisfy my own memory, the old trio of games had different names, didn't they?

1: The G1 Game clone (I can't remember it's tag name)

2: An extended G1 clone that went down to Makushita (Difficult)

3: The Ranking-Sen game (Revival)

Something like that? Edited March 16, 2007 by Zeokage

[Zeokage]

So, it's almost basho time and I'm considering trying out a Beta test of a revival of the old Ranking-Sen (or Aim for Yokozuna - Revival) game.

No idea on a new name as yet (suggestions welcome) but the rules were simple. Choose 2 rikishi, the wins of one and the losses of the other make your record for the tournament. I've been considering the idea of having both Makuuchi and Juryo rikishi included, therefore choosing 2 from each division, to get more diversity in results.

Anyone who would be interested in trying out some sample guesses for this basho, let me know so I can work out how much calculating I might be in for. :D

[Zenjimoto]

I would have just hijacked "Aim For Yokozuna" as the name somehow (with or without additions to indicate "which" AFY it is) (Wearing a paperbag...)

Did you wanna make a rule that eliminates Sanyaku from the winning picks? Seems like too many people would end up with Asashoryu on their team as the winning Makuuchi pick otherwise? Since I played this back in the day in the original, count me in for the revival as well (Wearing a paperbag...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Torideyama]

Anyone who would be interested in trying out some sample guesses for this basho, let me know so I can work out how much calculating I might be in for. :D

OK, I will get the ball rolling

Makuuchi (assuming the no sanyaku rule)

Win - Wakanosato

Lose - Toyonoshima (if kyujo, then Otsukasa)

Makuuchi (sanyaku included)

Win - Hakuho

Loss - Ama

Juryo

Win - Yoshikaze

Loss - Chiyohakuho

And awayyyyyyy we go!

[Torideyama]

So, it's almost basho time and I'm considering trying out a Beta test of a revival of the old Ranking-Sen (or Aim for Yokozuna - Revival) game.

No idea on a new name as yet (suggestions welcome) but the rules were simple. Choose 2 rikishi, the wins of one and the losses of the other make your record for the tournament. I've been considering the idea of having both Makuuchi and Juryo rikishi included, therefore choosing 2 from each division, to get more diversity in results.

Anyone who would be interested in trying out some sample guesses for this basho, let me know so I can work out how much calculating I might be in for. :D

Question on the scoring. If my winner goes 13-2 and my loser goes 2-13, is my final score 26-4, or will it be halved to resemble a regular score and be 13-2?

Just wondering.

[Zeokage]

I would think that 26-4 would be your final "points score" but would probably be halved to 13-2 for banzuke purposes. But that is one of the main details I have been yet to figure out for certain, although that would be the quickest and easiest way to do it. There aren't any points score like in some games that need a points -> W/L conversion. If anyone can think of any scenarios where a simple division by 4 (adding the Makuuchi and Juryo guesses together) let me know.

I would have just hijacked "Aim For Yokozuna" as the name somehow (with or without additions to indicate "which" AFY it is) (Blinking...)

Did you wanna make a rule that eliminates Sanyaku from the winning picks? Seems like too many people would end up with Asashoryu on their team as the winning Makuuchi pick otherwise? Since I played this back in the day in the original, count me in for the revival as well (Eh?)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

Whether to eliminate sanyaku (or just Ozeki and above?) is another query I wanted to put to the experienced game makers/players such as yourself. It would have to be one of those options because leaving the Ozeki and Yokozuna ranks in there leave the game open to "inflated" results like Chaingang did for a while.

I think my main rule questions which are yet to be decided would be...

1. How to get the final ?/15 score? (although a simple division sounds like the easiest way.

2. Just Makuuchi, just Juryo, have them both as seperate games or have them both added together?

3. How much of sanyaku to eliminate?

4. Sansho... how to win?

5. This one's probably more obvious, but kyujo rikishi... go the same way as most other games and say "if they're kyujo before Day 1, you can't pick them"?

I can't help thinking that I'm missing something, so if you have any other questions feel free to ask! B-)

[Torideyama]

1. How to get the final ?/15 score? (although a simple division sounds like the easiest way.

2. Just Makuuchi, just Juryo, have them both as seperate games or have them both added together?

3. How much of sanyaku to eliminate?

4. Sansho... how to win?

5. This one's probably more obvious, but kyujo rikishi... go the same way as most other games and say "if they're kyujo before Day 1, you can't pick them"?

1. How to get the final ?/15 score? (although a simple division sounds like the easiest way.

I think that would be the fairest and easiest. Just divide by 2 (or 4 if we have a combined M/J game). .5 would be rounded in the opposite direction of the median score (If the median score was 9.75, 8.5 would be rounded to 8. If the median score was 6, 8.5 would be rounded to 9)(Or just round up.)(Or some other method.)

2. Just Makuuchi, just Juryo, have them both as seperate games or have them both added together?

I vote for a combined M/J game. Mainly because it gives more flexibility to scoring, sanshos, etc.

3. How much of sanyaku to eliminate?

At most, eliminate ALL sanyaku. At least get rid of Yokozuna and Ozeki. I think I would prefer no Sanyaku at all, but would be comfortable either way.

4. Sansho... how to win?

Shukunsho- Most Wins

Ginosho - Most Losses

Kantosho - Best Juryo record (harder to predict, in my opinion)

Gongshow - worst overall record (OK, this one isn't real, but it sounded good)

And except for the Gongshow, you must have a KK record.

These are just ideas.

5. This one's probably more obvious, but kyujo rikishi... go the same way as most other games and say "if they're kyujo before Day 1, you can't pick them"?

Yes. Anyone active on day 1 can be picked. Fusen and subsequently missed days count as losses.

I hope others will add their opinions. I like the basic simplicity of this game.

[Torideyama]

I would have just hijacked "Aim For Yokozuna" as the name somehow (with or without additions to indicate "which" AFY it is) B-)

Did you wanna make a rule that eliminates Sanyaku from the winning picks? Seems like too many people would end up with Asashoryu on their team as the winning Makuuchi pick otherwise? Since I played this back in the day in the original, count me in for the revival as well (Blinking...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

If we had makuuchi AND Juryo, it could be Aim 4 Yokozuna.

[Zeokage]

I'd agree with the combined game that uses Makuuchi and Juryo.

I'm still a little torn between the level of Sanyaku (include Sekiwake and Komusubi or not?), purely because the Komusubi rank gives at least one option for a losing score each basho. It might turn into a reverse Asashoryu situation, but that said it's still a gamble as it doesn't happen every time.

Another one I just thought of... tiebreakers? Maybe this is where Sanyaku could come in? Choose two from the Komusubi/Sekiwake ranks in a mini-game to sort out any equal records?

That does bring up the possibility of having 3 groups for the game... Sanyaku (maybe taking out the top 4 or top half of sanyaku?), Maegashira and Juryo combined?

[Kintamayama]

I say no Y/Os. No one in his right mind would gamble that any S/K will win more than 9.. Or not? All the more interesting. Tiebreaker? If more than one player picks the same 4 guys (which is very plausible) the only one I can think of is the reliable- "earliest entry" one. Come on, aim for it!! Let's go!! Where's the entry form? I guarantee you at least 50 players. Result-checking should be pretty easy with one of those spreadsheet thingies.

AFY is back!!!

(hopefully..)

Edit: And Makuuchi+Juryo of course..

Edited May 6, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Torideyama]

I'd agree with the combined game that uses Makuuchi and Juryo.

I'm still a little torn between the level of Sanyaku (include Sekiwake and Komusubi or not?), purely because the Komusubi rank gives at least one option for a losing score each basho. It might turn into a reverse Asashoryu situation, but that said it's still a gamble as it doesn't happen every time.

Another one I just thought of... tiebreakers? Maybe this is where Sanyaku could come in? Choose two from the Komusubi/Sekiwake ranks in a mini-game to sort out any equal records?

That does bring up the possibility of having 3 groups for the game... Sanyaku (maybe taking out the top 4 or top half of sanyaku?), Maegashira and Juryo combined?

Tiebreakers idea:

TB1 Most Juryo wins

TB2 Most Makuuchi wins

TB3 Most Makuuchi losses

TB4 Most Juryo losses

TB5 Lowest ranked Juryo winner (J10E wins over J9W)

TB6 Lowest ranked Makuuchi winner

TB7 Highest ranked Makuuchi loser

TB8 Highest ranked Juryo loser

TB9 Highest rank on A4Y banzuke (or rock-paper-scissors) for the first basho.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Torideyama