Will Hakuho Be Given an Elder Advantage Like Takanohana?

[Hakuhonofan]

I found these 2 articles from Hochi. Can someone more knowledgeable in Japanese translate them, please?

About Hakuho being awarded one generation elder advantage :

【名古屋場所】北の湖理事長、白鵬への一代年寄授与を否定

2014年7月27日22時23分 スポーツ報知

　◆大相撲名古屋場所千秋楽　○白鵬（上手出し投げ）日馬富士●（２７日・愛知県体育館）

　日本相撲協会の北の湖理事長（元横綱）は２７日、大相撲名古屋場所で史上３人目となる３０度目の優勝を飾った横綱白鵬について、日本国籍を取得していないことから、顕著な功績をたたえて力士名のまま親方になれる「一代年寄」の授与を否定した。

　相撲協会は年寄名跡の襲名者を「日本国籍を有する者に限る」と規定している。同理事長は白鵬について「考えられない。高見山さん（先代東関親方）たちが国籍を取得した前例がある」と話した。

　協会はこれまで優勝３２度の大鵬、３１度の千代の富士（辞退＝現九重親方）、２４度の北の湖、２２度の貴乃花の元横綱４人に一代年寄を贈った。

About Hakuho needing naturalization/become citizen to get that award :

北の湖理事長、明言「白鵬一代年寄」資格取得は帰化が絶対条件

2014年7月28日6時0分 スポーツ報知

　◆大相撲名古屋場所千秋楽（２７日・愛知県体育館）

　日本相撲協会の北の湖理事長は、史上３人目の優勝３０回を達成したモンゴル出身の白鵬へ引退後の一代年寄を贈る可能性を「年寄の資格は日本国籍を有しているもの。日本の伝統文化である以上、それはありません」と明言した。

　年寄名跡を取得する協会の規定は日本国籍を有する者。白鵬はモンゴル国籍で年寄名跡を取得する資格を満たしていない。このため一代年寄の贈呈も規定外になる。理事長は今後、大鵬の３２回を超え歴代１位の優勝回数に達しても「変えることはありません」。

　現役のしこ名のまま年寄として協会に残ることができる一代年寄は過去、協会に著しく貢献した横綱に贈られてきた。大鵬、北の湖、貴乃花の３人が襲名している。優勝３１回の千代の富士は理事会で贈呈が決まったが本人が辞退した。白鵬は日本へ帰化しなければ、引退後に親方として協会に残ることはできない。

[Hakuhonofan]

I found these 2 articles from Hochi. Can someone more knowledgeable in Japanese translate them, please?

About Hakuho being awarded one generation elder advantage :

【名古屋場所】北の湖理事長、白鵬への一代年寄授与を否定

2014年7月27日22時23分 スポーツ報知

　◆大相撲名古屋場所千秋楽　○白鵬（上手出し投げ）日馬富士●（２７日・愛知県体育館）

　日本相撲協会の北の湖理事長（元横綱）は２７日、大相撲名古屋場所で史上３人目となる３０度目の優勝を飾った横綱白鵬について、日本国籍を取得していないことから、顕著な功績をたたえて力士名のまま親方になれる「一代年寄」の授与を否定した。

　相撲協会は年寄名跡の襲名者を「日本国籍を有する者に限る」と規定している。同理事長は白鵬について「考えられない。高見山さん（先代東関親方）たちが国籍を取得した前例がある」と話した。

　協会はこれまで優勝３２度の大鵬、３１度の千代の富士（辞退＝現九重親方）、２４度の北の湖、２２度の貴乃花の元横綱４人に一代年寄を贈った。

About Hakuho needing naturalization/become citizen to get that award :

北の湖理事長、明言「白鵬一代年寄」資格取得は帰化が絶対条件

2014年7月28日6時0分 スポーツ報知

　◆大相撲名古屋場所千秋楽（２７日・愛知県体育館）

　日本相撲協会の北の湖理事長は、史上３人目の優勝３０回を達成したモンゴル出身の白鵬へ引退後の一代年寄を贈る可能性を「年寄の資格は日本国籍を有しているもの。日本の伝統文化である以上、それはありません」と明言した。

　年寄名跡を取得する協会の規定は日本国籍を有する者。白鵬はモンゴル国籍で年寄名跡を取得する資格を満たしていない。このため一代年寄の贈呈も規定外になる。理事長は今後、大鵬の３２回を超え歴代１位の優勝回数に達しても「変えることはありません」。

　現役のしこ名のまま年寄として協会に残ることができる一代年寄は過去、協会に著しく貢献した横綱に贈られてきた。大鵬、北の湖、貴乃花の３人が襲名している。優勝３１回の千代の富士は理事会で贈呈が決まったが本人が辞退した。白鵬は日本へ帰化しなければ、引退後に親方として協会に残ることはできない。

Forgot to put links.

1st one : http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20140727-OHT1T50216.html

2nd one : http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20140727-OHT1T50313.html

[Asashosakari]

Basically, Kitanoumi as head of the Kyokai affirms that they will maintain the requirement that all oyakata must hold Japanese citizenship, and that this rule extends to the special one-generation status, so they won't consider Hakuho for it as long as he remains a Mongolian citizen.

[Asameshimae]

At this point Tenho is the only Mongolian to give up his citizenship no?

Has Hakuho ever hinted about what he wants to do afterward? Some, like Baruto, were very clear what they wanted to do when they retired from active sumo.

[ronnie]

At this point Tenho is the only Mongolian to give up his citizenship no?

Hasn't Shotenro taken Japanese citizenship? And I'm sure I read somewhere that Tokitenku has applied.

[Asameshimae]

Yes, yes, my memory isn't what it used to be. Tokitenku only took citizenship recently (head slap). I don't remember hearing Shotenro had taken Japanese citizenship, but heck I forgot about Tokitenku so...

edit: I can find no reference to Shotenro taking Japanese citizenship on the net.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Asameshimae

[Asashosakari]

At this point Tenho is the only Mongolian to give up his citizenship no?

Besides Kyokutenho and Tokitenku also Daitensho, Mokonami and Daionami, and Shironoryu.

[Asameshimae]

I was thinking more of active wrestlers and what they planned for the future but interesting to see these others who took the plunge.

[Tsubame]

Is it possible to have multiple citizenships? I don't know the situation in Japan and Mongolia.

[Benevolance]

I think Japan makes it very difficult to hold dual-citizenship.

[Asameshimae]

This comes up a lot. In Japan you can only hold one citizenship. A net search confirms this is also the case in Mongolia. Japan allows someone born with two parents of differently citizenships to maintain duality until I believe their 20th year, where they must decide. Not sure if Mongolia also allows this, but either way that point is largely irrelevant to Mongolians (or really any nationality) coming over to be sumo wrestlers.

[Johnofuji]

Citizenship issues aside. If Hakuho's intention is to eventually start up his own stable what is the incentive to take up the special ichidai-toshiyori if he can't really sell it when he retires?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I am guessing that a one generation stock isn't meant to be sold?

Forgive me for not being up on some of the Toshiyori kabu babble thread as it can get complicated without a 3d flow chart to show all the adsorptions ,splits and closures.

Did Taktoriki have to pay Taiho to take over from him or did he get son in law mates rates?

Hakuhoy would save a fortune by not having to purchase any existing stiock but wouldn't he still have to cough up the capital for the infrastructure to build a new stable? I don't think they would let him erect a Ger (yurt) style heya in downtown Ryogoku.

Any idea of how much they go for these days?

With some of the reforms I think they aren't as expensive as they used to be but if he wanted to create a lasting dynasty he wouldn't he have to decline like the Wolf of Kabe Dori?

[Asameshimae]

Has Hak said he has no interest in taking over Miyagino? I don't remember. I assume if he takes the special Dai Yokozuna kabu then he would not have to worry about timing things with Miyagino Oya's retirement. And if he wanted to start from scratch with his own heya it is in the realm of possibility if Medium sized Yokozuna Maru did it.

Most importantly if he does start up his heya in a yurt I am there for asageiko on Day 1!

[Hakuhonofan]

Has Hak said he has no interest in taking over Miyagino? I

I found an article from The Japan Times in 2009 (4/19/2009) when he spoke in a gathering at Foreign Correspondents' Club of Japan here:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2009/04/19/sumo/hakuho-remains-student-of-sumo-despite-success/#.U9muK-NdWSo

Quoting :

“I would very much like to open a stable and help raise the next generation of wrestlers,” he said. “My father is considered a hero in Mongolia because he was a yokozuna in the Mongolian sumo world. There are some people who are very stubborn in Mongolia who believe that the son of such a hero should come back to the country.

“But I want to be able to stay in Japan and contribute to the world of sumo in Japan.”

[Akinomaki]

I looked up my posts about it - before the time I added the article links.

Tospo speculates about Harumafuji becoming Japanese national. His wife said they also consider this option.

Being married to a Mongolian woman, at first it seems natural that they return to Mongolia after intai.

Hakuho and Kotooshu are said to have declared the intention to become oyakata, both married to a Japanese.

Kakuryu also showed interest in becoming oyakata, Baruto is likely to to return to Estonia and e.g. engage in managing a farm.

Hakuho thinks that if he can't be yokozuna till the Tokyo Olympics, he could enter as athlete in a sumo exhibition event. As he also confirmed that he wants to get the Japanese nationality to become an oyakata, the whole idea becomes more and more his favorite thing, a dream.

I still haven't seen a definite information if foreigners would get the 3 or 5 year period for an ozeki or yokozuna to stay in the sumo kyokai without kabu.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Akinomaki

[Asashosakari]

I still haven't seen a definite information if foreigners would get the 3 or 5 year period for an ozeki or yokozuna to stay in the sumo kyokai without kabu.

Obviously not, given that such oyakata have equal voting rights to "regular" ones.

[Raishu]

And if he wanted to start from scratch with his own heya it is in the realm of possibility if Medium sized Yokozuna Maru did it.

I'm not 100% sure, but didn't he recruit Daikiho, Ishiura and Harada himself (dunno about the 16 year olds, who entered in March '13+14')?

If he really does the recruitment work in Miyagino beya nowadays, a potential Hakuho beya might already have a solid base with the aforementioned rikishi.

[Senkoho]

[...] Daikiho [...] a solid base [...]

:-)

[kuroimori]

[...] Daikiho [...] a solid base [...]

:-)

Good one indeed!

I thought that Daikiho and his horrible performance of late was (one of) the reason(s)

Hakuho was in such an angry/pissed/aggressive mode on the dohyo.

[Akinomaki]

Kitanoumi had declared that Hakuho won't be given the special ichi-dai toshiyori status as long as he doesn't take on the Japanese citizenship. This Sankei column article demands that he should be made the first foreigner toshiyori when he retires, maybe voices like this will become louder, especially if he surpasses Taiho in yusho numbers next year.

Kitanoumi is kept getting asked if Hakuho might be made a Mongolian oyakata and again confirmed

"There is the rule that Japanese citizenship is required for becoming toshiyori. That's part of the traditional culture. We maintained it since the old days. Our intention is to stick to that."

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/sumo/20150104-OYT1T50096.html

Hakuho might have to continue being active as long as his father is alive. His opposition is seen as the reason for Hakuho not yet becoming Japanese, and the father commented accordingly at the basho: "Now is not the right timing for that."

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2015/01/25/kiji/K20150125009694650.html

This article hints though at the 5 year grace period for a yokozuna - the NSK is free to accept Hakuho under that rule also as a Mongolian - and when Kitanoumi is gone, things may also look different.

Anyway, they are making the rules themselves and can break or change them anytime, like the kensho limit exception this basho shows.

[Akinomaki]

the 5 year grace period for a yokozuna - the NSK is free to accept Hakuho under that rule also as a Mongolian

Looking at his present and past misbehavior, I guess they rather will be glad to get rid of Hakuho in that case.

[krindel]

the 5 year grace period for a yokozuna - the NSK is free to accept Hakuho under that rule also as a Mongolian

Looking at his present and past misbehavior, I guess they rather will be glad to get rid of Hakuho in that case.

I am not sure if that's what they are thinking, but if they are, I think its a mistake. The NSK needs all yokozuna sticking around, especially the dai-yokozuna. In my view, it has already lost too many so far.

Right now the only oyakata that are former yokozuna are Kitanoumi, Kokonoe (Chiyonofuji), Hakkaku (Hokutoumi), Shibatayama (Onokuni), Isegahama (Asahifuji), Takanohana and Musashigawa (Musashimaru).

Out of those, Kitanoumi and Kokonoe will be leaving in the near future due to retirement, leaving only two dai-yokozuna in the list and only one of the 20+ yusho legends (Takanohana). Remember that until 2005 they had all four of them as active oyakata.

I think losing Hakuho as well would be a blow to the prestige and glamour of the NSK. I am sure they'll survive, of course, but I would not be so quick to say they would be glad of his leaving.

[Akinomaki]

Hakuho now promised to have a statue of Futabayama built at the kokugikan IF he becomes an oyakata, at an event about Futabayama's life in his home prefecture Oita.
As the 69th yokozuna for the yokozuna with 69 wins in a row, he had proposed this at the rikishi-kai 3 years ago, but it was rejected.
Now he in addition wants it as the yokozuna with 35 yusho for the 35th yokozuna.
http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1559855.html
http://www.daily.co.jp/sumo/2015/10/31/0008526859.shtml

Hakuho seems to have at least the intention to remain in the NSK, but no intention to become Japanese yet. (and no hope to win more yusho?)
talk-show with Futabayama's granddaughter (left)

Edited October 31, 2015 by Akinomaki

[Orion]

Does anybody remember when this 'citizenship' rule came in? Two relevant rikishi were approaching retirement age and status, a Japanese of Korean ancestry, and Jesse Takamiyama, the first all-foreign, no-doubt-about-it, successful sumo rikishi. IIRC, the Korean dropped out, but Jesse promptly took out Japanese citizenship, as he was indeed entitled to. The Sumo Kyokai bosses who introduced the rule were not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, and had not specified "Japanese birth" but only "Japanese nationality"-- so they could do nothing but accept him as the first foreign-born oyakata. And there the matter rests.

Contrary to what some people are saying, quite a number of foreign-born rikishi are now Japanese nationals running successful businesses here. There's an Argentinian I see on his bike from time to time, and we exchange a nod and a smile. In his active days he got some Jewish goodies brought from Israel by the legendary Kintamayama. (Still got the photos somewhere....)

Frankly, the people who see only one side are missing an awful lot.

[808morgan]

I think Japan makes it very difficult to hold dual-citizenship.

Yeah they don't recognize it, my wife is a resident alien in the US and she has a passport for both countries, she enters Japan with a Japanese passport and comes back in the US on her US.