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Asashosakari

the faces of persistence (or futility?)

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Asashosakari    11,025

The (IMHO silly) discussion about Baruto's "embarrassing" performance prompted me to work on something I'd been thinking of for a while now, namely a list of all active rikishi who have never achieved kachi-koshi in their career. Yes, my mind does work in mysterious ways sometimes.I'm not doing this to belittle the sumotori who appear on the list - I'm actually quite impressed that some of them continue to stick around. And who knows, maybe some of you will find a lovable underdog to root for. (Neener, neener...) So, without further ado, all rikishi without any kachi-koshi (through Natsu 2006, minimum 3 basho, complete absences excluded):

Shikona

Heya

Debut

MK

Highest Rank

Record

Win%

This Basho

Morikawa Otake Natsu 2003

18

Jonokuchi 5 23-100-3 0.187

1-3

Daishiryu Kise Haru 2004

13

Jonokuchi 1 20-71 0.220

1-3

Ishii Magaki Haru 2004

13

Jonidan 133 14-77 0.154

0-4

Daikosei Asahiyama Aki 2004

10

Jonokuchi 7 9-61 0.129

0-4

Iwanaga Michinoku Haru 2005

7

Jonokuchi 7 10-39 0.204

1-3

Omori Naruto Kyushu 2004

7

Jonidan 130 19-32-6 0.373

2-2

Yamamoto Naruto Haru 2005

7

Jonokuchi 2 15-34 0.306

2-2

Eigashima Otake Haru 2005

6

Jonidan 131 15-26-8 0.366

0-0-4

Kida Arashio Haru 2005

5

Jonokuchi 19 12-17-13 0.414

banz.-gai

Iwashina Tamanoi Aki 2005

4

Jonidan 132 10-18 0.357

1-3

Wakashiraishi Magaki Haru 2005

4

Jonokuchi 27 6-13-16 0.316

banz.-gai

Asaamami Takasago Haru 2005

3

Jonokuchi 26 7-10-11 0.412

banz.-gai

Kanai Michinoku Nagoya 2005

3

Jonokuchi 24 6-15-7 0.286

banz.-gai

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Zentoryu    144

How did some of these guys make it to Jonidan without a single KK? (You are going off-topic...)

Combine that with a lack of recruits coming into sumo, so nobody will jump over him and it is possible to make it to the Jonidan division.

While it is possible to be promoted within Jonokuchi with a 3-4, to get promoted to Jonidan has more to do with basho where there are a large number of new recruits. Rikishi who are in Jonokuchi and go 3-4 (or in some cases even 2-5) will get promoted to Jonidan in order to make room for the new Jonokuchi rikishi at the tail end of the banzuke. Last basho was a perfect example of this. The Kyokai doesn't seem to like having more than 80 or so rikishi in Jonokuchi at one time, so when there are a large number of new recruits, like last basho, the 3-4 rikishi are bumped up to Jonidan to make room. Under virtually no other circumstances will you ever see rikishi jumping to Jonidan with 3-4.

Edited by Zentoryu

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Asashosakari    11,025

Incidentally, I forgot to note one particular oddity: I wasn't sure if I should be including Omori in the list, as his best-ever record was 4-4, due to getting an 8th bout as a fill-in. That's technically equivalent to kachi-koshi, but the banzuke makers didn't treat him as identical to regular 4-3 rikishi, perhaps because he was 3-4 before the additional bout (he got a much smaller promotion than the 4-3 guys, but still a bigger one than the 3-4 rikishis), so I'm keeping him as "has never achieved kachi-koshi" for now. There was another rikishi getting 4-4 last basho (that guy had been 4-3 before the add-on bout) which did result in a standard 4-3 promotion.

The Kyokai doesn't seem to like having more than 80 or so rikishi in Jonokuchi at one time, so when there are a large number of new recruits

FWIW, I've started to think that it's not so much tied to ~80 rikishi, but rather keeping Jonidan about 3 times as big as Jonokuchi. Make-koshi rikishi at the bottom of Jonidan are sometimes treated extremely leniently (even outside of the Haru->Natsu banzuke session), and I sometimes get the feeling it's because to do differently would upset the balance between the two divisions too much (e.g. 105-40 would already be too extreme, so they shuffle the demotions and do 110-35 instead).

Edited by Asashosakari

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Asashosakari    11,025

Aki basho revival!In the end, only one guy left the list after Nagoya basho, but unfortunately via intai, not kachi-koshi. Bye-bye to Wakashiraishi, may he be more blessed in his future endeavours. So for this basho, we have 8 guys trying to find some success in a sea of make-koshi, plus 4 more sitting off-banzuke. Another 9 guys from the Haru basho debut class are fighting to avoid their third consecutive MK and may be joining the list for Kyushu if they don't succeed.

Shikona

Heya

Debut

MK

Highest Rank

Record

Win%

Last Basho

This Basho

Morikawa Otake Natsu 2003

19

Jonokuchi 5 25-105-3 0.192

2-5

0-2

Daishiryu Kise Haru 2004

14

Jonokuchi 1 23-76 0.224

2-5

1-1

Ishii Magaki Haru 2004

14

Jonidan 133 17-81 0.173

3-4

0-2

Daikosei Asahiyama Aki 2004

11

Jonokuchi 7 11-66 0.143

2-5

2-0

Iwanaga Michinoku Haru 2005

8

Jonokuchi 7 13-43 0.232

3-4

0-2

Omori Naruto Kyushu 2004

8

Jonidan 130 22-36-6 0.379

3-4

2-0

Yamamoto Naruto Haru 2005

8

Jonokuchi 2 17-39 0.304

2-5

0-0-2

Eigashima Otake Haru 2005

6

Jonidan 131 15-26-15 0.366

0-0-7

b-g

Iwashina Tamanoi Aki 2005

5

Jonidan 132 13-22 0.371

3-4

1-1

Kida Arashio Haru 2005

5

Jonokuchi 19 12-17-13 0.414

b-g

b-g

Asaamami Takasago Haru 2005

3

Jonokuchi 26 7-10-11 0.412

b-g

b-g

Kanai Michinoku Nagoya 2005

3

Jonokuchi 24 6-15-7 0.286

b-g

b-g

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aderechelsea    106

great topic .... i didn't notice it in July .....

From all the above rikishi i remember watching Morikawa in Natsu and he made a great impression to me and to the rest of the people in the Kokugikan (including the shimpan and yobidashi).

he is completely untrained in all aspects. Most of the bouts he fell down or stepped out by himself.He also look like a mini Buyuzan hair-wise.

the shimpan (Matsugane and gang) and yobidashi (more discreetly) were having a ball during his fights. Many laughs all around.

"face of persistence" indeed .... (Applauding...)

DSCF1434.jpg

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aderechelsea    106

ok lets put some faces to these guys ...

Daishiryu (former Hirai)

DSCF1436.jpg

Ishii

DSCF1437.jpg

Daikosei (former Maekawa)

DSCF1438.jpg

Iwanaga

DSCF1439.jpg

Omori

DSCF1440.jpg

Yamamoto

DSCF1441.jpg

Edited by aderechelsea

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Doitsuyama    1,009
Ishii is 167cms!!! Isn't that under the minimum??

Actually he often gets quite a going over in keiko.

Look into the full banzuke, than you will find more such rikishi below the limit. For example makushita technician Sugita at 165.5 cm. See, even you can have a chance in Ozumo. Or wait, there was an age limit too... (Applauding...)

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maxim    0

All of these kids were born between 1987 and 1990. You can rest assured they'll continue to stick around.

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Asashosakari    11,025

Many belated thanks for the pictures and the first-hand impressions, adere. (Punk rocker...) Day 8 update!Somewhat surprisingly, after three 2-5 in a row Daikosei, the most success-challenged active rikishi around, already has three wins at the half-way mark this basho. Joining him at 3-1 is Omori who (as I mentioned above) already has a 4-4 "sort of kachi-koshi" to his name (as well as four 3-4 records in seven more basho), so this one is perhaps not all that unexpected. Iwashina, still in his first year of futility, sits at 2-2 and might be able to celebrate his first kachi-koshi exactly one year after his sumo debut. The other four guys are doing their best to remain on the list, with Ishii even ticketing his make-koshi already.Sneaking a quick look at the 9 "prospects" for the club, one of them is among the 4-0 division leaders (Owada, after two 3-4 records), five are currently even at 2-2, two have their work cut out for them at 1-3, and Sugishita, the lowest-ranked among them, is a bout short at 1-2 (for a career record of 1-16, with this basho's win coming by fusen no less).

Shikona

Heya

Debut

MK

Highest Rank

Record

Win%

Last Basho

This Basho

Morikawa Otake Natsu 2003

19

Jonokuchi 5 25-105-3 0.192

2-5

1-3

Daishiryu Kise Haru 2004

14

Jonokuchi 1 23-76 0.224

2-5

1-3

Ishii Magaki Haru 2004

14

Jonidan 133 17-81 0.173

3-4

0-4

Daikosei Asahiyama Aki 2004

11

Jonokuchi 7 11-66 0.143

2-5

3-1

Iwanaga Michinoku Haru 2005

8

Jonokuchi 7 13-43 0.232

3-4

1-3

Omori Naruto Kyushu 2004

8

Jonidan 130 22-36-6 0.379

3-4

3-1

Yamamoto Naruto Haru 2005

8

Jonokuchi 2 17-39 0.304

2-5

0-0-4

Eigashima Otake Haru 2005

6

Jonidan 131 15-26-15 0.366

0-0-7

b-g

Iwashina Tamanoi Aki 2005

5

Jonidan 132 13-22 0.371

3-4

2-2

Kida Arashio Haru 2005

5

Jonokuchi 19 12-17-13 0.414

b-g

b-g

Asaamami Takasago Haru 2005

3

Jonokuchi 26 7-10-11 0.412

b-g

b-g

Kanai Michinoku Nagoya 2005

3

Jonokuchi 24 6-15-7 0.286

b-g

b-g

Edited by Asashosakari

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aderechelsea    106

i took a look again in my notes from Natsu and i found a couple of lines i wrote about Daoikosei ... here they are FWTW ....

"... chon-mage and all in Jonokuchi (so he must be a rikishi for long) but extremely skinny. He won his bout today (day 15) and showed that he knows his stuff even though his body must be limiting to his progress. The shimpan where laughing and trading winks but after the win they got serious and nodded in approval of his skill ..."

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Asashosakari    11,025
i took a look again in my notes from Natsu and i found a couple of lines i wrote about Daoikosei ... here they are FWTW ....

"... chon-mage and all in Jonokuchi (so he must be a rikishi for long) but extremely skinny. He won his bout today (day 15) and showed that he knows his stuff even though his body must be limiting to his progress. The shimpan where laughing and trading winks but after the win they got serious and nodded in approval of his skill ..."

Interesting. I pretty much expected that he's simply another Morikawa, just with less weight, but I guess I was way off the mark there. He must have serious trouble putting on weight...68 kg at maezumo two years ago, and still only 72 kg this year.

Maybe Daimanazuru has been eating all the chanko at Asahiyama-beya, explaining his improvement over the same period of time. (Punk rocker...)

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aderechelsea    106

Morikawa is officially makekoshi for the 20th time in his 20 basho career ....

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Asashosakari    11,025

Kachi-koshi for Iwashina and Daikosei! Looks like Daikosei's career winning percentage might surpass Ishii's after this basho, too, passing the red lantern to the latter.

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Asashosakari    11,025

Let's take a look at our persistent guys:As mentioned, Daikosei finally found some success exactly two years after his sumo debut, achieving his fourth win on Day 12. Iwashina's career is one year shorter and he too reached kachi-koshi this basho, even going to 5-2 on senshuraku. Everybody else fell short, including Omori after his 3-0 start, so we'll keep them around for a bit longer. (Clapping wildly...)

Shikona

Heya

Debut

MK

Current Rank

Highest Rank

Record

Win%

Last Basho

This Basho

Morikawa Otake Natsu 2003

20

Jonokuchi 29 East Jonokuchi 5 27-110-3 0.197

2-5

2-5

Ishii Magaki Haru 2004

15

Jonokuchi 26 East Jonidan 133 18-87 0.171

3-4

1-6

Daishiryu Kise Haru 2004

15

Jonokuchi 30 West Jonokuchi 1 24-81 0.229

2-5

2-5

Daikosei Asahiyama Aki 2004

11

Jonokuchi 29 West Jonokuchi 7 15-69 0.179

2-5

4-3

Omori Naruto Kyushu 2004

9

Jonokuchi 22 East Jonidan 130 25-40-6 0.385

3-4

3-4

Iwanaga Michinoku Haru 2005

9

Jonokuchi 24 East Jonokuchi 7 15-48 0.238

3-4

2-5

Yamamoto Naruto Haru 2005

8

Jonokuchi 28 West Jonokuchi 2 17-39-7 0.304

2-5

0-0-7

Eigashima Otake Haru 2005

6

Banzuke-gai Jonidan 131 15-26-15 0.366

0-0-7

---

Iwashina Tamanoi Aki 2005

5

Jonokuchi 22 West Jonidan 132 18-24 0.429

3-4

5-2

Kida Arashio Haru 2005

5

Banzuke-gai Jonokuchi 19 12-17-13 0.414

---

---

Asaamami Takasago Haru 2005

3

Banzuke-gai Jonokuchi 26 7-10-11 0.412

---

---

Kanai Michinoku Nagoya 2005

3

Banzuke-gai Jonokuchi 24 6-15-7 0.286

---

---

Among the 9 guys on track to join the list, four got their kachi-koshi, all with 4-3. Here are the other five who will continue to make appearances with us:

Shikona

Heya

Debut

MK

Current Rank

Highest Rank

Record

Win%

2006.05

2006.07

2006.09

Tsunehikari Nishikido Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 25 West Jonokuchi 25 9-10-2 0.474

3-2-2

3-4

3-4

Iwasa Shikoroyama Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 26 West Jonokuchi 26 7-14 0.333

2-5

3-4

2-5

Wakahizen Hanakago Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 31 West Jonokuchi 31 7-14 0.333

2-5

2-5

3-4

Kotoyamaguchi Sadogatake Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 33 East Jonokuchi 23 5-16 0.238

1-6

1-6

3-4

Sugishita Naruto Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 37 East Jonokuchi 37 1-20 0.048

0-7

0-7

1-6

So, assuming nobody retires after the basho, there'll be 10 active rikishi on the list next time, plus 5 on banzuke-gai.

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Asashosakari    11,025

First Kyushu update:

We did have one retirement after Aki basho as Eigashima decided to hang it up in banzuke-gai, so for this basho there are 14 young rikishi on the list, with 10 of them in active competition. And true to form, none of them are unbeaten after four days. Still, perhaps encouragingly six of them did manage a level score of 1-1, so kachi-koshi is still within reach. The other four at 0-2 will have a bigger hill to climb.

I'll post detailed standings on nakabi.

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Asashosakari    11,025

Kyushu nakabi update:The early basho outlook holds up, as no rikishi is better than 2-2 after four bouts. Still, with five of them having a level score, chances are good to see at least one of them pick up his kachi-koshi.In less encouraging news, Sugishita continues to remain winless in actual competition. Incidentally, our two heroes from last basho are both also 0-4 in low Jonidan...

Shikona

Heya

Debut

MK

Current Rank

Highest Rank

Record

Win%

Last Basho

This Basho

Morikawa Otake Natsu 2003

20

Jonokuchi 27 East Jonokuchi 5 28-113-3 0.199

2-5

1-3

Daishiryu Kise Haru 2004

15

Jonokuchi 27 West Jonokuchi 1 26-83 0.239

2-5

2-2

Ishii Magaki Haru 2004

15

Jonokuchi 29 West Jonidan 133 20-89 0.183

1-6

2-2

Omori Naruto Kyushu 2004

9

Jonokuchi 18 West Jonidan 130 27-42-6 0.391

3-4

2-2

Iwanaga Michinoku Haru 2005

9

Jonokuchi 25 West Jonokuchi 7 17-50 0.254

2-5

2-2

Yamamoto Naruto Haru 2005

8

Banzuke-gai Jonokuchi 2 17-39-7 0.304

0-0-7

---

Kida Arashio Haru 2005

5

Banzuke-gai Jonokuchi 19 12-17-13 0.414

---

---

Tsunehikari Nishikido Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 20 East Jonokuchi 20 10-13-2 0.435

3-4

1-3

Wakahizen Hanakago Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 23 East Jonokuchi 23 8-17 0.320

3-4

1-3

Kotoyamaguchi Sadogatake Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 24 West Jonokuchi 23 7-18 0.280

3-4

2-2

Iwasa Shikoroyama Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 26 West Jonokuchi 26 7-18 0.280

2-5

0-4

Sugishita Naruto Haru 2006

3

Jonokuchi 30 East Jonokuchi 30 1-24 0.040

1-6

0-4

Asaamami Takasago Haru 2005

3

Banzuke-gai Jonokuchi 26 7-10-11 0.412

---

---

Kanai Michinoku Nagoya 2005

3

Banzuke-gai Jonokuchi 24 6-15-7 0.286

---

---

Edit: BTW, when he started this basho with a win on Day 2, Morikawa managed to reach a .200 winning percentage for the first time again since his 5th career bout (when he was 1-4) back in July 2003. As you can see above, he has now dropped back below again. Edited by Asashosakari

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aderechelsea    106

Morikawa holds to his rank as the yokozuna of persistence by losing today and getting his 21st consecutive Makekoshi since his debut.

good job lad !!!!!

EDIT: from what i am seeing Ishii lost today too so now he is 3-3 and he goes to his last bout with everything on the line for either MK (which means he'll stretch his record to 16 bashos) or KK (which means he'll lose his place on this prestigious list ... (Laughing...))

EDIT 2: Omori lost too ... 10th MK in his 10-basho career. He moved to double digits and he is considered from now on a dai-persistent rikishi.

Edited by aderechelsea

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Asashosakari    11,025
dai-persistent rikishi.

(Holiday feeling...) (Blinking...) Dai-persistent, that word's just perfect to describe our merry band of intrepid youngsters. Kudos!

Speaking of which, here's a quick Day 12 update: nobody has achieved kachi-koshi so far, but Daishiryu joins the aforementioned Ishii at 3-3. Could we see the two 15-MK veterans cross the finish line at the same time? They're ranked quite close to each other, but there won't be a "kachi-koshi playoff" between them as they already faced off on Day 10, the win going to Ishii. (Already their 7th encounter, incidentally...Daishiryu now holds a 4-3 edge after his loss.)

Also still hopeful at 3-3 is the recently added Wakahizen Kotoyamaguchi. Probably not so surprisingly, the new five guys have been worse than the established five, going a combined 7-22-1 compared to the veterans' 12-18. Sugishita has continued his losing ways successfully and is the only Jonokuchi rikishi at 0-6 this basho.

Morikawa goes into the final bout with his eight-basho streak of 2-5 records on the line.

Late edit: Stupid name error fixed. So much for trying to work with tabled data at 5am.

Edited by Asashosakari

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aderechelsea    106

2-5 once again ....

Morikawa RULES !!!!! (the 2-5 records ... (Chucking salt...))

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Oimeru    0

Poor Sugishita is at 0-6 now and has a career record of 1-26. Ouch!

Persistent indeed...

(Chucking salt...)

However, he's up against Inui now who is 0-0 so far -- I guess he's injured and just wants to stay in Jonukuchi. Maybe a chance?

Edited by Oimeru

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Doitsuyama    1,009
However, he's up against Inui now who is 0-0 so far -- I guess he's injured and just wants to stay in Jonukuchi. Maybe a chance?

That bout has been today and Inui won as expected. Typically rikishi who return to get a single bout on day 13 are winning against rikishi with 0 wins.

Another fun fact about Sugishita: Thanks to the (as is usual from Natsu to Haru) shrinking size of jonokuchi he was at a career high rank at each basho so far despite the 1-27 career record (Jk43, Jk41, Jk37, Jk30). This will likely end with the 0-7 and 13 new rikishi coming from mae-zumo, unless more than 30 rikishi are retiring.

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It could be somewhat interesting to follow even those guys who actually "gets out" of this list. I don't know how common it is to become sekitori after starting with at least 3 consecutive make-koshi, but it can't be that common.

I don't have the data to do a thorough check (and I can't recall whether something like this has been mentioned in banzuke topics), but I could only find Wakakosho among recent sekitori (who started with three make-koshi). Is there any other (well)-known cases?

EDIT: Hmm. It seems not only becoming sekitori is highly unusual, but even ever making it to Makushita, when starting with at least three make-koshi... Their future in Ozumo looks bleak...

MORE EDIT: Gives me a good reason to cheer on Toyohikari from Tokitsukaze-beya and currently securing a 4-3 kachi-koshi at Ms50e, who once started his career with 5 consecutive make-koshi.

Edited by Yubiquitoyama

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Asashosakari    11,025

However, he's up against Inui now who is 0-0 so far -- I guess he's injured and just wants to stay in Jonukuchi. Maybe a chance?

That bout has been today and Inui won as expected. Typically rikishi who return to get a single bout on day 13 are winning against rikishi with 0 wins.

Another fun fact about Sugishita: Thanks to the (as is usual from Natsu to Haru) shrinking size of jonokuchi he was at a career high rank at each basho so far despite the 1-27 career record (Jk43, Jk41, Jk37, Jk30). This will likely end with the 0-7 and 13 new rikishi coming from mae-zumo, unless more than 30 rikishi are retiring.

And, in a bit of encouragement for Sugishita, let's post Morikawa's first two years on the banzuke (his ongoing 9-basho streak of 2-5 records started right after this):

2003.07 Jk39e  1-6	 
2003.09 Jk32e  0-7	 
2003.11 Jk38w  0-7	 
2004.01 Jk38w  0-7	 
2004.03 Jk38w  1-6
2004.05 Jk5e   1-6	 
2004.07 Jk21e  1-6	 
2004.09 Jk37w  2-5	 
2004.11 Jk28w  1-3-3	 
2005.01 Jk33w  1-6	 
2005.03 Jk29w  2-5
2005.05 Jk5e   1-6

After winning his very first bout (!) Morikawa went on a 32-bout losing streak...Sugishita currently sits at 27 (ignoring his sole fusen win in between).

Edited by Asashosakari

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Asashosakari    11,025
Daishiryu joins the aforementioned Ishii at 3-3. ...

Also still hopeful at 3-3 is the recently added Kotoyamaguchi.

And proving why they belong on this list, they all went make-koshi today...

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