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Kintamayama

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One thing for sure: it there's anyone out there who knows how to deliver an effective slap to the face, it's Otake Oyakata...

Haar...

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While I think Moti's calls for throwing Roho out of sumo were a little over the top, I have to say I agree with just about everything he's said in this thread.

And incidently, the young Japanese boys who in the past would have entered sumo are now joining baseball, soccer, and judo teams.

Where they are not infrequently slapped in the face, bopped on the head, and kicked in the butt.

If you are searching for a reason for the decline in sumo recruits, you have to look elsewhere besides a strict hierarchy and corporal punishment. That's a part of Japanese life, even today. It is even a significant part of the comedy world, which is flooded with new kids trying to break in. It's the latest boom.

The reason for the lack of recruits is that these days few parents are willing to have their son skip high school and/or college for a shot at sumo glory. There was a time when a somewhat poor family wanted a son to be a rikishi: he'd be taken care of, and if he did well he'd make a good living and provide for the family. These days, finishing high school and college is the safer bet. If we had something like Wolf Fever, or the Waka-Taka boom, it might cover the decline. But right now the Kyokai is on the wrong side of the risk vs reward equation.

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And incidently, the young Japanese boys who in the past would have entered sumo are now joining baseball, soccer, and judo teams.

Where they are not infrequently slapped in the face, bopped on the head, and kicked in the butt.

If you are searching for a reason for the decline in sumo recruits, you have to look elsewhere besides a strict hierarchy and corporal punishment. That's a part of Japanese life, even today.

The reason for the lack of recruits is that these days few parents are willing to have their son skip high school and/or college for a shot at sumo glory. There was a time when a somewhat poor family wanted a son to be a rikishi: he'd be taken care of, and if he did well he'd make a good living and provide for the family. These days, finishing high school and college is the safer bet. If we had something like Wolf Fever, or the Waka-Taka boom, it might cover the decline. But right now the Kyokai is on the wrong side of the risk vs reward equation.

A very astute observation, methinks.

(Neener, neener...)

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Opposing psychologists would say that abused often become the abusers, so the vicious circle continues (Zabuton flying...)

Theres a big difference between proper discipline and abuse Notsu (Clapping wildly...)

(Neener, neener...)

My parents never ever hit me, and I turned out allright.

Same for my borther and sisters.

I have a baby daughter now, and there are enough other options for punishments.

Whenever she does something she is not allowed to, we sit her down and hold her.

She really does not like that, and to her it is punishment.

And surprise: it works. she learns very fast to obey.

Of course, hitting is a lot easier.

But ultimately, you'll teach your kids that it is OK to use violence.

And it's not.

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(You are going off-topic...)

My parents never ever hit me, and I turned out allright.

Same for my borther and sisters.

I have a baby daughter now, and there are enough other options for punishments.

Whenever she does something she is not allowed to, we sit her down and hold her.

She really does not like that, and to her it is punishment.

And surprise: it works. she learns very fast to obey.

Of course, hitting is a lot easier.

But ultimately, you'll teach your kids that it is OK to use violence.

And it's not.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sumofan they already do think its ok to use violence,read your papers.

Everything from grafitti to murder commited by kids whose parents give in to the politically correct attitude to discipline.

Can you ask your parents to come and teach the kids literally running riot in the streets in my town because whatever methods the parents in my town and every other town and city in the world are using instead of proper discipline sure as hell aint working.

"Spare the rod spoil the child'

The word from someone who knows a lot more about child rearing than any of us.

Edited by Fujisan

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Everything from grafitti to murder commited by kids whose parents give in to the politically correct attitude to discipline.

I disagree. A great deal of juveline deliquence is the direct result of abusive families. Beating your child (or your wife for that matter) will not make them respect you. They may fear you, and act in a way as not to upset you, but that doesn't mean respect. Just like bullies at school aren't respected either, feared perhaps but not respected.

Anyway, the youth has always been ruined, ever since the written history :)

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Everything from grafitti to murder commited by kids whose parents give in to the politically correct attitude to discipline.

I disagree. A great deal of juveline deliquence is the direct result of abusive families. Beating your child (or your wife for that matter) will not make them respect you. They may fear you, and act in a way as not to upset you, but that doesn't mean respect. Just like bullies at school aren't respected either, feared perhaps but not respected.

Anyway, the youth has always been ruined, ever since the written history :)

Not like they are now they weren't.

Properly applied discipline is an act of love and gains respect.

As for kids running riot in the streets because of abuse in the family thats a crock,sorry but it is.

There must be an awful lot of parents abusing their kids and getting away with it if thats true.

P.S I think I'm done with this subject here but if you have something you really want to continue this do it by P.M

I'm in danger of taking this too far because once I get the bit between my teeth I cant let go.

Edited by Fujisan

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I am just starting page 2 of this 7 page (so far) discussion.

change your settings to allow 50 posts per page, much better for these long threads

.....just perused this monster thread, quite some opinionating and observations.

Irrespective of sumo culture and protocols Roho assaulted those cameramen and should be arreseted and charged by the police - end of story. As much as I detest the litigiousness of a well known Western country ,in this case I think it would be fitting that the cameramen sue the pants or in this case Mawashi off Roho and take him to the cleaners. It should go on his record and not swept under the carpet and if such an incidence troubles his ability to renew his visa in the future then good riddance I say. Roho can bugger off for all I care.

Dont let the door hit your ass on the way out

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Man... Out for a single weekend to the beach, and all hell breaks loose on this beloved sumoforum.

I've been here reading these endless pages, and I feel I'm going to have bizarre dreams tonight, trying to remember the new things I've learned... to recap, that Europe need to "get real", that the Middle East (formerly known as the Near East ?) is in Asia, that honor is "not measureing by money" (although it can, apparently, be a comforter), that Pirates of the Caribbean was good but not THAT good, that it's good (or maybe NOT good, I forget) to hit your children, and a whole lot of other relevant information.

I guess the Roho-Chiyo debate has been solved by the Kyokai... My two cents is that this kind of event DOES damage sumo, that Roho obviously has a temper problem, and that Chiyo seemed to be reacting to something, surprised and concerned.

Mah, the NSK knows best, anyway...

Edited by slt

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No you guys don't understand, Roho's human rights have been violated by this barbarous slap across the face. He only beat up two innocent people literally half his size, and publically disgraced his heya which allowed him to enter Japan to make a living, with behavior that was previously unthinkable in sumo. How dare they slap him and take away his dignity. On top of that, a 3 game suspension? This isn't the NBA where players get 10 or 15 game suspensions, this is Japan. Japanese people love it when big foreigners commit violent acts on Japanese. 3 days is way too harsh. At least when he comes back, he'll have gained a ton of fan support.

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this is not to take away from the opinions of those not living in Japan but I would like to ask what those actually here think?

Some may say it makes no difference where you live but I think it does. Living in Japan DOES affect my reaction on some things and that is only natural.

When a guy behaves like Roho in public, he is seen as violent, dangerous and foreign.

Guilt by association is still massive in Japan but I won't go down that road as it would take all year but Roho being foreign and my / seki above and several other forum members being foreign IS linked.

All non-Japanese do get tarred with the same brush from time to time even by the best and most liberal of Japanese who are subjected to 'foreigners commit crime / foreigners rape schoolkid' in their evening news - nationalities are generally only mentioned inside the story / report.

Whether that is right or wrong is largely a different discussion so a simple- to the aliens here now - should he stay or should he go?

For me - time to leave or to get the nose on the dohyo and grovel to the sumo powers - asking or even begging for more slaps across the face.

Edited by Adachinoryu

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I've been here reading these endless pages, trying to remember the new things I've learned... that the Middle East (formerly known as the Near East ?) is in Asia,

Have you really just learned this? Pick up a map and have a look, follow the imaginary lines that seperate Europe from Asia, Asia from Africa.

It's quite a simple fact of geography. I'm surprised two people have responded questioningly to this.

(You are going off-topic...)

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Roho should be held accountable for his actions as any other person, foreign or otherwise, would be held to in Japan. If the cameraman presses charges, then he presses charges. If he does not, then he does not. If the kyokai pressures him not to, then that's the Japanese way of handling it, and so be it. If they feed him to the wolves, that is their choice, so be it.

Personally I'd rather see them turn him over to the authorities for prosecution, see him tried and deported, and no longer in sumo. That would send a strong message to everyone in sumo, and it wouldn't involve slapping to the face (for all of you folks who think that was such a horrid thing to do, I guarantee you that arrest and deportation would be far far worse).

As far as all this silliness about physical abuse, I would like to bring up the fact that there was far more physical discipline of kids several generations ago, and it seems like the planet and society held together okay despite it. We can discuss psychology of beatings in another thread, but unless you think the slap drove Roho into a Hulk-esque rage which caused him to punch a glass door and shove a cameraman or two, it probably doesn't belong in this thread.

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Whether that is right or wrong is largely a different discussion so a simple- to the aliens here now - should he stay or should he go?

For me - time to leave or to get the nose on the dohyo and grovel to the sumo powers - asking or even begging for more slaps across the face.

I think he should be given a heavy fine and made to do some kind of community service (if they have that here).

On the otherhand, I've seen Japanese people fighting on many occasions and not get arrested or punished in any way, merely sent home by the police to sleep it off.

So, if Roho isn't arrested, I won't lose any sleep over the injustice of it all.

On still another hand, I've seen more white English teachers fighting each other than Japanese fighting each other. (and white English teachers only make up like .2% of the population) Makes one wonder if white Americans, English, Australians, Irish, etc... don't have more of a propensity to get into a fight when feeling slighted (than Japanese people, in general, of course), instead of just letting it go.

Worst case scenario,I knew a foreigner who, after punching out a bar owner (who insulted the gaijin then reached over grabbed said gaijin's tie and blew his nose on it), was arrested, locked up for 4 days, released to find out he was fired from his job, then when he went to immigration to get a re-entry permit his visa was literally ripped out of his passport. For one punch, not unprovoked.

To touch lightly on another theme in this thread, the kids in Japan are not running wild. They are too busy studying. And despite the focus on Japan's slapping/smacking each other culture, I'm pretty sure that's not how children are disciplined/ taught how to behave in the average home. Children are indulged. I've seen many instances of kids acting horribly and the parents patiently dealing with it. Still, everybody toes the line, for the most part. Instead of spanking the child, shame, and to a lesser extent, guilt are the tools used to socialize the child in Japan. And their method works pretty well, I think. This place is a lot safer than my hometown.

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I've been here reading these endless pages, trying to remember the new things I've learned... that the Middle East (formerly known as the Near East ?) is in Asia,

Have you really just learned this? Pick up a map and have a look, follow the imaginary lines that seperate Europe from Asia, Asia from Africa.

It's quite a simple fact of geography. I'm surprised two people have responded questioningly to this.

(In a state of confusion...)

You don't really pick up irony very fast, do you ?

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Whether that is right or wrong is largely a different discussion so a simple- to the aliens here now - should he stay or should he go?

For me - time to leave or to get the nose on the dohyo and grovel to the sumo powers - asking or even begging for more slaps across the face.

On still another hand, I've seen more white English teachers fighting each other than Japanese fighting each other. (and white English teachers only make up like .2% of the population) Makes one wonder if white Americans, English, Australians, Irish, etc... don't have more of a propensity to get into a fight when feeling slighted (than Japanese people, in general, of course), instead of just letting it go.

Again generalising, but I notice that the Japanese usually have much longer fuses than foreigners when trouble occurs. Foreigners here tend to get all hot and bothered quickly, but often cool down just as fast. It seems that their Japanese counterparts are very slow to get angry, but when they do, they go berserk and nothing can calm them down except for a night in the tora bako.

As for Roho, he assaulted two people outside of the sumo association, as opposed to Asashoryu a few summers ago, who went after his rival Shoes-on. Roho should be out for the rest of the tourney at minimum, and subject to some counselling before reinstatement.

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As far as all this silliness about physical abuse, I would like to bring up the fact that there was far more physical discipline of kids several generations ago, and it seems like the planet and society held together okay despite it.

And now that its not considered the done thing strangely the world is falling down around our ears.

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Somebody say here -

"Irrespective of sumo culture and protocols Roho assaulted those cameramen and should be arreseted and charged by the police - end of story".

Why?

If so, then TAIKAI should be arrested first for public insulting.

ROHO have did well.

Another time any rude sumotory will thinck about his words.

I thinck ROHO will kick averybody who will attatempt insult him on dohyo next time with large possibilities.

CIVILE LOW must prevent any public insulting among rikishi.

( KINTAMAYAMA where are you?

I hope you have had a rest and are very well.

Let us continue. )

Edited by Ossetian Yokozuna

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Somebody say here -

"Irrespective of sumo culture and protocols Roho assaulted those cameramen and should be arreseted and charged by the police - end of story".

Why?

If so, then TAIKAI should be arrested fist for public insulting.

ROHO have did well.

Another time any rude sumotory will thinck about his words.

I thinck ROHO will kick averybody who will attatempt insult him on dohyo next time with large possibilities.

CIVILE LOW must prevent any public insulting among rikishi.

( KINTAMAYAMA where are you?

I hope you have had a rest and are very well.

Let us continue. )

Are you for real ?

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Are you for real ?

Yes, it is alive. Seriousness following this ridiculous statments make me (I dunno...) Once again OY - how old are you? (In a state of confusion...)

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Ossetian Yokozuna finally reached threshold to make my killfile - Well done!

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slt - Why not?

Because, dear OY, your statements here are far beyond the comprehension of most people on this forum. Me included.

Edited by Kurinoku

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'Public Insulting' is not a crime in itself. Assaulting people is. Chiyotaikai did not break the law. Roho did.

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