Extraordinary happening

[Fujisan 530]

Actually, the stuff that went on afterwards I can understand. but around and on the dohyo? I am very disappointed with you, Fujisan! I thought you knew more about Sumoudou! Tsk, tsk.

Who me? I'm a real sumo-phile me but I do know more about being hot tempered.

If its in your genes to have a short fuse then if you gotta blow,you gotta blow in fact Roho probably wanted to say a lot more than he did at the dohyo and was holding it in thats no doubt why he went of on one with the reporters.

[Fukurou 534]

I'm not the president of the Roho fan club or anything. He clearly is an ill-mannered brute. That is beside the point. It looks to me (from Dale's video) like Chiyotaikai started it. I did say they both behaved badly.

One thing about this - if Roho clearly started things (as some say) and Chiyotaikai didn't do anything more than ask how he was (as some say), then in the immediate aftermath why were both of them called on the carpet not once, but twice? If it's all, entirely and completely Roho's fault, why drag Chiyo in for a little chat too -- unless someone wants to humiliate Roho a bit, which will likely make him even angrier.

[Babaryutaikai 1]

He is not, in fact, American, nor does he live in North America (or South, for that matter) or Asia,

Sorry to split hairs, but he does actually live in Asia.

From: The Brigadier (not as long as Kintama's new title, but still pretty awe inspiring)

Yes, you are technically right - Southwest Asia, but I believe it's more commonly referred to as the Middle East- whatever that means - as opposed to SoouthEAST Asia, which is referred to as such. But then, I was never good at geography. I've never been to the Middle East. But I spent 6 months in Bhutan. (Bye, bye...)

[ilovesumo 12]

[Saburo 18]

Anyone here remember Konishiki's matches with Onokuni and Futahaguro in July 1987?

I don't recall seeing worse manners in those two matches but... I don't recall Kasugano Rijicho saying much of anything at the time.

Rikishi not bowing after the match... happens all the time and it doesn't particularly offend me but the trash talk off the dohyo is something new. Hopefully the shimpan nearby can report something constructive to Kitanoumi.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Diagnosis for injured cameraman: 4 days to heal.

[Kurinoku 0]

Diagnosis for injured cameraman: 4 days to heal.

Actually, still quite good news for Roho... ;-)

/worked for 3,5 years in Emergency Room (Neener, neener...) and has seen countless times, what can do glasses broken onto someone's face/

Edited July 15, 2006 by Kurinoku

[Olenishiki 0]

It seems to me that the sad thing about this incident--and about the proliferating expressions by rikishi of their unhappiness in defeat or their exultation in victory--is that it undercuts one of the most profoundly appealing and even uplifting aspects of the sport. I teach creative writing and I use the example of sumo as a way to instruct aspiring artists in the right attitude toward their work and toward life. I call it "sumo zen." For years I was first amused by but then finally moved by the sameness of so many sumo interviews. To almost any question, the rikishi's answer was most often a variation of: "I'll do my brand of sumo and I'll do my best." The clear corollary implicit in this statement is: "and I'll let it go." There's no better philosophy for work or for life. Do your brand of sumo, do your best, and then let it go to the universe. I've always looked to sumo for this ongoing inspiration. But as the winning becomes more important than being yourself and doing your best and accepting it--and that's what's clearly implied by an incident like this--the deep and even spiritual foundation of sumo seems to me to be threatened.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

One thing about this - if Roho clearly started things (as some say) and Chiyotaikai didn't do anything more than ask how he was (as some say), then in the immediate aftermath why were both of them called on the carpet not once, but twice? If it's all, entirely and completely Roho's fault, why drag Chiyo in for a little chat too -- unless someone wants to humiliate Roho a bit, which will likely make him even angrier.

Chiyotaikai told us himself that he went to see Rijicho on his own accord because he felt bad about it.

[Kaioshoryu 62]

I feel I have to add my two cents on this topic, even if I am a nobody who knows little or nothing about sumo...

What Roho did goes against one of the things that makes my enjoy sumo so much; you are expected to behave yourself and to respect your opponent both in victory and defeat. I love two sports very much, and that is sumo and football (soccer forf you americans out there). In football the tendency to cheat to gain an advantage has become a bigger and bigger problem. Players dive to get freekicks, they pull their opponents shirts to stop them, they feign injury to waste time, etc etc. In sumo these things aren't a factor, because it goes against the whole nature of the sport. What Roho did is a step towards the situation that you have in football, and he has to punished to stop things from escalating. If he goes unpunished it will send a message to the young wrestlers that you can get away with these things.

[Mark Buckton 1]

I feel I have to add my two cents on this topic, even if I am a nobody who knows little or nothing about sumo...

you are not a nobody K-san.

Kintamayama may have 6000 odd posts - I have 3000 and a bit but yours are as valuable as the rest. If you have something to say please do.

Some good comments BTW.

[Kaioshoryu 62]

I feel I have to add my two cents on this topic, even if I am a nobody who knows little or nothing about sumo...

you are not a nobody K-san.

Kintamayama may have 6000 odd posts - I have 3000 and a bit but yours are as valuable as the rest. If you have something to say please do.

Some good comments BTW.

Thank you for those kind words Adachinoryu. (Neener, neener...)

[Fukurou 534]

One thing about this - if Roho clearly started things (as some say) and Chiyotaikai didn't do anything more than ask how he was (as some say), then in the immediate aftermath why were both of them called on the carpet not once, but twice? If it's all, entirely and completely Roho's fault, why drag Chiyo in for a little chat too -- unless someone wants to humiliate Roho a bit, which will likely make him even angrier.

Chiyotaikai told us himself that he went to see Rijicho on his own accord because he felt bad about it.

So then why'd he get called in the other time?

[Kintamayama 44,354]

One thing about this - if Roho clearly started things (as some say) and Chiyotaikai didn't do anything more than ask how he was (as some say), then in the immediate aftermath why were both of them called on the carpet not once, but twice? If it's all, entirely and completely Roho's fault, why drag Chiyo in for a little chat too -- unless someone wants to humiliate Roho a bit, which will likely make him even angrier.

Chiyotaikai told us himself that he went to see Rijicho on his own accord because he felt bad about it.

So then why'd he get called in the other time?

They didn't. Kokonoe Oyakata was the one addressing them first, as the head of the judging bureau.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Another picture of Saint Rohou:

[Kintamayama 44,354]

The Rijikai will convene today to decide on Rohou's punishment. Apparently, Hakurozan saw Rohou attacking the bath glass door and tried to restrain him, but to no avail. His right hand was covered in blood from the window shards, and he wrapped it with a towel. Then, as he attacked the photographers, shouts of "what are you doing, you idiot", were heard from Oyakatas rushing to the scene.

Later, in the Rijicho's office, Rohou was asked to shake Chiyotaikai's hand as an act of reconciliation. He hesitated and answered back. That's when his shishou Otake Oyakata (ex-Takatouriki) smacked him one across the face, forcing him to shake that hand. "When you lose or win to a higher ranker, you've got to show respect. That was ugly! This basho we've been seeing a lot of this crap. The various Oyakatas better get their guys in line!!", said a raging Kitanoumi Rijicho.

"It's a great shame that all this happened in front of a sell-out crowd. I apologized to Rijicho", said Chiyotaikai.

Later, a calmed down Rohou apologized to the press, yet added: "I think the things he said after the bout was over were a bad thing too". In the bath room, Rohou said "Let's gambarize from here on", to Chiyotaikai, but was met with silence.

Paper says putting the whole scene around the dohyo aside, Rohou's attack of someone not connected with the affair (photographers) will likely not be overlooked.

Edited July 15, 2006 by Kintamayama

[Kurinoku 0]

Paper says putting the whole scene around the dohyo aside, Rohou's attack of someone not connected with the affair (photographers) will likely not be overlooked.

And why it even should be overlooked? An assault of 195 cm 150 kg well-trained muscle-man against a tiny frail professional, who was trying to do his work within the frame they have always been allowed, is a police matter, I think.

Edited July 15, 2006 by Kurinoku

[Zeokage 0]

From the other thread on this topic: I think it was Adachinoryuu who posted it.

From 2 Japanese who saw this separately - one sat alongside yours truly.

Taikai said 'nanda omeh'?? Buggered if I know this spelling but perhaps 何だおめー

To which Roho simply replied 何だ while still off the dohyo.

I think there could be something in the inital harite Roho gave Choyotaikai - fingernail?

I've watched the clip a few times now, and I can see the possibility of a "daijyoubu ka?". I'm no lip-reader though when it comes to Japanese. He had a strange way of saying it from my experience, the head going down on the very extended "jyou", at least in my opinon. That makes it harder for me to tell what he's saying.

As for the "nanda, ome"... I would assume that was a rough version of "nanda, omae"... sort of a "what the *expletive* is wrong with you?" in it's strongest form, I guess. If that's the case, then the words from both men were "fighting words", something straight from Gokusen or anime. I think another post mentioned "ora"... could that be "kora"?

Roho's lack of a bow... he did make a very, very miniscule bowing action, but it was barely noticable. Definately nowhere near the level you should go down to when bowing to your opponent, especially a higher ranking one.

Edited July 15, 2006 by Zeokage

[Hakuyobaku 33]

I have a question. What kind of punishment can rijikai possibly put on Roho?

a strict referral? Force him to go kyujo publicly because of misconduct? Force him go kyujo but beind scenes citing an injury? (He was bleeding after all). A large Fine? any of those combined? Expulsion from ozumo? well that's next to impossible.

That's all i can come up with, any more ideas ?

[Asashosakari 18,786]

Paper says putting the whole scene around the dohyo aside, Rohou's attack of someone not connected with the affair (photographers) will likely not be overlooked.

And why it even should be overlooked? An assault of 195 cm 150 kg well-trained muscle-man against a tiny frail professional, who was trying to do his work within the frame they have always been allowed, is a police matter, I think.

I suppose the idea that Roho will go kyujo for the rest of the basho isn't an issue anymore (well, we'll know in a few hours), but if this becomes a police matter, I suspect he's toast for Aki basho. That's the kind of public perception problem where the Kyokai simply has to show activity.

Edited July 15, 2006 by Asashosakari

[Mark Buckton 1]

as much as he deserves a thorough slapping and punishment to boot, and I believe they both do - as well as their ooyakata - I must have missed it thus far but what was Taikai asking about in the first place. The first TV images show Taikai speaking - not Roho.

The question he (Taikai) is quoted as asking is a challenging kind of 'what's with you' even with slight variations on form, so what did Roho in the first place do to incur that reaction? Attempt a slapdown?

At least with Zidane and the Mater whatsisname case, we hear of the original reason for the Zidane reaction and can then make our own minds up.

With this - what / /where was that spark?

MB

Edited July 15, 2006 by Adachinoryu

[Torideyama 30]

Rohou should be banned from Sumo NOW.

All,

I am just starting page 2 of this 7 page (so far) discussion.

What I would like to know is if there is any precedent for what Kintamayama is suggesting? What is the likelihood of him being suspended, or banned? Has it happened before?

Thanks.

Torideyama

[Mark Buckton 1]

FWLIW - one Japanese language daily is now reporting Taikai was cut himself - by flying glass as he was in the bathroom and as Roho was removing the glass from the frame.

And, to anjswer my own Q above- it seems (same report) the original offence WAS taken by Taikai - at being 'forced' to matta and also because of the harite by Roho - Taikai never resorting to harite and all.

[Takanorappa 86]

What I would like to know is if there is any precedent for what Kintamayama is suggesting? What is the likelihood of him being suspended, or banned? Has it happened before?

Thank to Jonosuke... There's Tamanoumi, though I suppose Roho didn't nearly beat anyone to death.

Taka pointed out that there is a 3 day suspension for lack of fighting spirit -- again, doesn't really apply. There's waaaay too much fighting spirit here.

There was Toki's suspension for his driving incident in 2001. This is not remotely related to this incident, as it was a driving accident; however, he was punished. Toki was suspended for one tournament by the Kyokai. That suspension resulted in a 0-0-15 record for him while in Makuuchi, sending to Juryo for the March 2001 tournament.

..and then there was Futahaguro, of course.

Edited July 16, 2006 by Takanorappa

[Itchygao 0]

The subject of Sumo and steriods has been brought up at Sumo Forum in the past. Last time I read about it, it was a discussion revolving around Ama & his physical appearance differences in a short period of time, as well as the apparent worsening of his skin condition. That was brought up because a member mentioned acne

was a common side effect of heavy steriod use.

Reading about Barry Bonds lately, I have also learned that angry outbursts are also often associated with

heavy steriod use. Roho's complexion is no candidate for a Clearasil commercial. Is there any possibility

what we saw from Roho was a textbook case of "Steriod Rage"?

I for one do not know. But I do recall there were a few members here who seemed to have a great deal of knowledge about steroids and their adverse effects. With the topic in the news daily in the sports of baseball,

football, the olympics & cycling , can a heavily physical sport like Ozumo be exempt from the steriod shadow?

When a man who has been competing for several years , apparently without other incidents, suddenly blows up

and attacks innocent byestanders, buildings , puts his hand through glass, etc. there MUST be some

explanation for his going beserk. Is part of the answer "chemical"?