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paolo

shikona - no

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Since I don't speak or know any japanese at all, I would ask a question about shikona's.

Several names have got a "no" inside, and I happened to read that somebody (I cannot remember

who he was) at a certain point in time added a "no" between the two parts of his previous name,

without changing its meaning very much. Can somebody explain me what it all means ? Thanks.

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Since I don't speak or know any japanese at all, I would ask a question about shikona's.

Several names have got a "no" inside, and I happened to read that somebody (I cannot remember

who he was) at a certain point in time added a "no" between the two parts of his previous name,

without changing its meaning very much. Can somebody explain me what it all means ? Thanks.

no is a genitive marker, meaning "of".

for example, kita no umi means "sea of the north" (kita is north, umi is sea, the grammar is reversed)

dont ask me for the other names though, i dont know most of the kanjis either.

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... and I happened to read that somebody (I cannot remember who he was) at a certain point in time added a "no" between the two parts of his previous name, without changing its meaning very much.

Guys you may be thinking of:

- Harunoyama's real surname is Haruyama

- recently retired Wakanoyama is from Wakayama prefecture

There are probably others across history.

One guy you probably weren't thinking of, but I'll throw him in anyway - lower division rikishi Daishoki from Takadagawa-beya seems to have a very imaginative mind and has changed his shikona quite freely in the last couple of years, including liberal subtraction and re-addition of 'no' at one time. Ring Name History: Kuzu -> Maenosato -> Tominosato -> Daitomisato -> Daitominosato -> Taikoki -> Daishoki

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One guy you probably weren't thinking of, but I'll throw him in anyway - lower division rikishi Daishoki from Takadagawa-beya seems to have a very imaginative mind and has changed his shikona quite freely in the last couple of years, including liberal subtraction and re-addition of 'no' at one time. Ring Name History: Kuzu -> Maenosato -> Tominosato -> Daitomisato -> Daitominosato -> Taikoki -> Daishoki

Should finally land with Hikouki. Or Narita. Or Haneda.

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Is there any difference between の, ノ and 乃? Why would a rikishi (or oyakata) choose a particular way of writing? Aesthetics?

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Is there any difference between の, ノ and 乃? Why would a rikishi (or oyakata) choose a particular way of writing? Aesthetics?

Japanese names are examined for the number of strokes in their Kanji and sometimes they need to change the writing to add or take away a stroke. I don't know if that's really the reason but it's my gut instinct.

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Is there any difference between の, ノ and 乃? Why would a rikishi (or oyakata) choose a particular way of writing? Aesthetics?

The first is a hiragana character, the second katakana and the third kanji. Hiragana is a phonetic system used for pure Japanese words. Katakana is a phonetic system used mostly for foreign words. Kanji is a ideographic (non-phonetic) system adopted from the Chinese to depict concepts. All are pronounced "no" and are used interchangeably. The Hiragana character is by far the most commonly used of the three, and is probably the most correct usage.

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Is there any difference between の, ノ and 乃? Why would a rikishi (or oyakata) choose a particular way of writing? Aesthetics?

Japanese names are examined for the number of strokes in their Kanji and sometimes they need to change the writing to add or take away a stroke. I don't know if that's really the reason but it's my gut instinct.

The prime example of a rikishi using all 3 forms of "no" is Kotonowaka. The 'no" in his shikona changed to all three forms during his career.

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Guest Echizen

Since I don't speak or know any japanese at all, I would ask a question about shikona's.

Several names have got a "no" inside, and I happened to read that somebody (I cannot remember

who he was) at a certain point in time added a "no" between the two parts of his previous name,

without changing its meaning very much. Can somebody explain me what it all means ? Thanks.

no is a genitive marker, meaning "of".

for example, kita no umi means "sea of the north" (kita is north, umi is sea, the grammar is reversed)

dont ask me for the other names though, i dont know most of the kanjis either.

I agree with Andreas (Applauding...)

Gramatically "no" is a genitive marker.

And "ga" is a genitive marker, too. For exampe "Kimi-ga-hama" means your beach.

A few shikona or toshiyori name used "no" and "ga".

"Ume no tani" changed to "ume ga tani" that is his oyakata's shikona.

There is "Ise ga hama" oyakata. There used to be Ozeki "ise no hama".

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Is there any difference between の, ノ and 乃? Why would a rikishi (or oyakata) choose a particular way of writing? Aesthetics?

Japanese names are examined for the number of strokes in their Kanji and sometimes they need to change the writing to add or take away a stroke. I don't know if that's really the reason but it's my gut instinct.

The prime example of a rikishi using all 3 forms of "no" is Kotonowaka. The 'no" in his shikona changed to all three forms during his career.

In edo era, "ノ" was common. "Koshi no umi" used "の" at the first time in makuuchi.

Do you know "O no gawa"? His "no" is "野". But sometimes it was written "ノ".

"Tomi no yama" changed "ノ"->"野"->"ノ"

"Yoshi no yama" had "野". but "yoshinoyama" is a proper name.

There was another "no" in rikishi name. It is "之". Gyoji uses this "no", for example

"Sho no suke". Only "nami no hana" used this "no" in makuuchi.

Yokoduna sadanoyama used three types of "no", の, ノ and 乃.

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In edo era, "ノ" was common. "Koshi no umi" used "の" at the first time in makuuchi.

Do you know "O no gawa"? His "no" is "野". But sometimes it was written "ノ".

"Tomi no yama" changed "ノ"->"野"->"ノ"

"Yoshi no yama" had "野". but "yoshinoyama" is a proper name.

There was another "no" in rikishi name. It is "之". Gyoji uses this "no", for example

"Sho no suke". Only "nami no hana" used this "no" in makuuchi.

野 is pronounced as "no", but is not a genitive or possessive form. Its meaning in Japanese is listed as a field or a plain. In Chinese, it means wild, rustic or savage.

之 is a possessive word used in formal Chinese, so it is a highbrow version of the other "no" characters.

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Interesting stuff. Thank you for your answers. (Nodding yes...)

Gramatically "no" is a genitive marker.

And "ga" is a genitive marker, too. For exampe "Kimi-ga-hama" means your beach.

A few shikona or toshiyori name used "no" and "ga".

Have other particles been used as shikona components?

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The Hiragana character is by far the most commonly used of the three, and is probably the most correct usage.

The hiragana の is indeed the most common, but saying "by far" is clearly wrong. Currently の is used 38 times, ノ 32 times and 乃 26 times.

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In edo era, "ノ" was common. "Koshi no umi" used "の" at the first time in makuuchi.

Do you know "O no gawa"? His "no" is "野". But sometimes it was written "ノ".

"Tomi no yama" changed "ノ"->"野"->"ノ"

"Yoshi no yama" had "野". but "yoshinoyama" is a proper name.

There was another "no" in rikishi name. It is "之". Gyoji uses this "no", for example

"Sho no suke". Only "nami no hana" used this "no" in makuuchi.

野 is pronounced as "no", but is not a genitive or possessive form. Its meaning in Japanese is listed as a field or a plain. In Chinese, it means wild, rustic or savage.

之 is a possessive word used in formal Chinese, so it is a highbrow version of the other "no" characters.

I checked Banzuke in "http://www.ep.sci.hokudai.ac.jp/~tsubota/bindex/ban0.html" page.

The page was written in Japanese. Seki-no-to used "之" at only one basho in 1787(otheres were ノ).

In edo era, the difference of "no" is not important. I think the banzuke writer chose "no" in his feeling.

"乃" is newest "no". The first "乃" in makuuchi appeared in 1956. The 2nd Tamanoumi changed "ノ" to "乃".

This change was important. Tamanoumi made up his mind to change "no".

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Guest Echizen
Interesting stuff. Thank you for your answers. (Bow...)
Gramatically "no" is a genitive marker.

And "ga" is a genitive marker, too. For exampe "Kimi-ga-hama" means your beach.

A few shikona or toshiyori name used "no" and "ga".

Have other particles been used as shikona components?

There were not important particles without "no" and "ga" in the middle of shikona.

"yama", "Umi" etc in the tale of shikona and "Waka", "Koto" ect on the top of shikona are famous. But I don't think you meant it.

I think "tsu" is shikona component. "Tsu" was used in two case.s One is after number. Hitotsu(1), Futatsu(2), mittsu(3), yottsu(4).... have "tsu". For example, Hitotumatu, Futatsuryu, MItsuuroko, Yotsuguruma, Itsutusshima. These tsu ware written as "ツ"(katakana)

Other case is used before kaze(wind,) or umi(sea) , foe example, Tokituskaze, Amatsukaze, okitukaze, Akitsukaze, and Okitsuumi. These tsu are written as "津"(Kanji). Futatsuryu and Okitsuumi used both tsus.

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Regarding hiragana "の" , katakana "ノ " and kanji "乃" (since "之" is rarely used so it's not that applicable), aside from brush stroke point of view, there appears to be a feel or character to each (perhaps this is only for me but..)

Since using the hiragana can be considered as the simplest form and it is great in young rikishis and those starting out. It looks refreshing and kind of springy feel to it like Kisenosato ("稀勢の里") though Wakanosato ("若の里") never changed his hiragana "の" but I feel he should to the katakana.

Katakana No appears to be stylish and looks fit for rikishis in their prime as they grew as a rikishi and statue and great in their prime.

And as they move into "veteran" category, they could change it to kanji "乃" which looks more formal. However since the kanji version has an extra brush stroke, it may not work out with other kanjis.

Most rikishis change their shikona in occasion of their promotion, demotion, recovery from injury so we will likely see the change for Kisenosato or Wakanosato in time.

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