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Iwagakki

Flagellating a moribund solid-hoofed, herbivorous quadruped mammal

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Mike W. here from Sumotalk. I rarely post on this forum...not because I don't have anything to say, but I know the way I express those views are not to everyone's liking, and I don't want to force my comments on anyone. If you want to hear what I have to say about sumo, you know where to find me. I will post here, however, if I feel there is some information I can provide that will clear up a few things, and judging by the reaction to Clancy's senshuraku comments on this thread, there are a few things I wanted to say.

First, we are not a private website...we're anything but. We use real names with real faces, and we're out there for the world to see. We also have an email address if you want to send us your take or debate us. I'll admit that we can be pretty disrespectful in our comments on the website, but I guarantee you that every emailer is treated with respect. The email page last basho was full of emailers who disagreed with my rants against Kotooshu's sumo during the Aki basho and my replies to them. Please don't expect us to be another SumoForum...why would we want to compete with this? We do have an avenue on Sumotalk for any of our readers to contact us, so if you don't use it, that's your loss.

Second, just because one person gives a take on Sumotalk that you don't agree with, it doesn't mean that everyone of us has the same viewpoint. Believe me, I've read some horrible takes on this forum, so is it fair for me to classify you all as having horrible takes? Render unto Clancy that which belongs to Clancy. I don't think anyone gets it better than Tatsuma Keiru who posted a few entries up. Please go back and read his post (if you need some expert analysis on what he's really saying, float me an email). TK isn't a fangeek, and he knows it. Frankly, it's a shame that he's only made 17 posts on this forum if you ask me. If you let our comments bother you to the point where you're offended and you feel like you might be a fangeek, then you probably are. Look, I don't agree with all of Clancy's takes nor Simon's nor Kenji's either, and I hope they don't blindly agree with all of mine. Like TK, I really felt that there was so much more Clancy could have focused on in his senshuraku comments other than the henka. Still, it was Clancy's day to report, and his viewpoints were going to be posted regardless of what I thought about them. The beauty of Sumotalk is that everyone has the last word on any issue if he wants it. In my post basho report, I'm going to right the ship in my view and focus mostly on Asashoryu and Kotooshu. We offer viewpoints from up to five different contributors a basho and then we leave it up to our readers to determine its worth.

It's not any simpler than that. Take us or leave us. We never come on this forum or email lists or anywhere else and promote ourselves. We don't have to. Our soaring readership speaks for itself. We really do appreciate all of our supporters, so thanks to those who read us. As for our detractors, we poke fun, we scoff, and we make light of most everything we talk about, so fire away on the forum regarding us. Fair is fair. But until I do a Google search for "sumo expert" and don't find our site at the top, you're going to have to put up with Sumotalk's existence.

Mike W.

Sumotalk Contributor

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Second, just because one person gives a take on Sumotalk that you don't agree with, it doesn't mean that everyone of us has the same viewpoint. Believe me, I've read some horrible takes on this forum, so is it fair for me to classify you all as having horrible takes? Render unto Clancy that which belongs to Clancy. I don't think anyone gets it better than Tatsuma Keiru who posted a few entries up. Please go back and read his post (if you need some expert analysis on what he's really saying, float me an email). TK isn't a fangeek, and he knows it. Frankly, it's a shame that he's only made 17 posts on this forum if you ask me. If you let our comments bother you to the point where you're offended and you feel like you might be a fangeek, then you probably are. Look, I don't agree with all of Clancy's takes nor Simon's nor Kenji's either, and I hope they don't blindly agree with all of mine. Like TK, I really felt that there was so much more Clancy could have focused on in his senshuraku comments other than the henka. Still, it was Clancy's day to report, and his viewpoints were going to be posted regardless of what I thought about them. The beauty of Sumotalk is that everyone has the last word on any issue if he wants it. In my post basho report, I'm going to right the ship in my view and focus mostly on Asashoryu and Kotooshu. We offer viewpoints from up to five different contributors a basho and then we leave it up to our readers to determine its worth.

Yes, right. I was one of those whom he chose to personally attack. Well, he singled me out, so that's as personal as it gets. Fair enough - I have no beef with what he says, it's HOW he says it that irks me. I have answered him in my own language. My problem with Fantasysumo is the style. The style is so far away from Sumo- it is loud, vulgar and puts me off. Of course you're right that we shouldn't make generalizations, but Clancy called us all geeks from Smartron 5, no? His rebuttals of my points were shallow, and I'm being kind now. Saying "EVERYBODy was thinking Shunketsu was shite" is the epitome of nothingness, but, well, I digress.. I've had many arguments on Smartron 5 on henka, but nobody ever sunk that low.

I personally think there's a "thing" going on between fantasy and the forum- a kind of secret race who brings in more readers. And now that Sumofanmagazine is on the scene, that's one more rival on the virtual dohyo..I hope I'm wrong..

Edited by Kintamayama

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Render unto Clancy that which belongs to Clancy.

Fair enough. Clancy Kelly - passing off debunked myths and half-truths as fact since...when did that guy join up anyway? I'm clearly not visiting sumotalk.com often enough (which is probably to the best of everyone involved), I'd never heard of the guy until today.

At any rate, I have no idea if his using his column as a bully pulpit and then not even having the courtesy of naming those he's addressing (let alone linking to the posts in question...the horror, some of those millions of Sumotalk readers might actually go there and make up their own minds) is his regular modus operandi. I also have no idea if his using fifth-grade level taunts as substitute for actual argument is just part of the famed "take no prisoners" Sumotalk style, or if he's come up with that moron act on his own (or if perhaps it comes natural). I'll be charitable on the rest of your crew and assume it's the latter. He does seem to be a rather insecure fellow, throwing around alleged insults like "fangeeks" and "fandweebs" like it's holy water to ward off the evil, humourless forum people. Particularly ironic (once again) when it's coming from somebody who resorts to schoolyard tactics. Why did Kelly get one of the (and I'm not trying to be sarcastic now) coveted spots on Sumotalk again? Surely there must be better talent available.

But until I do a Google search for "sumo expert" and don't find our site at the top

That just might have something to do with you guys naming your site "Expert Sumo Analysis", and precious few other people calling themselves "sumo experts". I might note that you're not showing up anywhere for the search words "credible sumo analysis", but then I'm rapidly entering troll territory now.

you're going to have to put up with Sumotalk's existence.

Nobody's begrudging you your existence. Thank you for posting here to respond to the controversy, Mike. Would that certain contributors to your site had the same decency. Then again, I probably should be careful what I'm wishing for there.

Going back to the start of your post to finish this:

I rarely post on this forum...not because I don't have anything to say, but I know the way I express those views are not to everyone's liking

Well, if that stopped any of us, this place would be pretty empty. I'm sure everyone agrees that you'll always be welcome to post here, although a flame-proof suit might come in handy. ;-)

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So here I am, okay?

Let me see. Kintamayama--I did counter your points effectively. I think you are slighting foreign fans and have too much faith in Japanese forthrightness. Yes, the term "everyone thinks KDTO is a piece of shite" is hyperbole.

Asashosakari--I'm not going to list all the times I have heard discussions about the content of someone's sumo being a factor in their decision making process in one day's report. And the kyokai cetainly do take it nto account. Sure, it hardly ever results in a denial of promotion, but it can and SHOULD, which is really the main point I was making. It is not up solely to the wrestler to decide what he can and can't do on the dohyo, as Iwegakki made it seem.

And the reason I am on Sumotalk is because Mike feels I write well. You needn't feel slighted about that. Maybe if you boned up just a bit you could make a bid for being a contributor there yourself.

Also, for TK, I did not go into the Day 15 bouts with any detail because Mike's Day 14 was definitive. I treated as more of a wrap-up. Go back to my Days 4 and 7 and you'll find much more analysis. That said, of course you can see it all for yourself on tv or the Web. I have never thought of my writing as a way to bring you all some new and esoteric knowledge. Like you said, I'm being entertaining. BTW, send me sometime some of those caustic comments you mentioned--I love caustic.

Bottom line: Members of this forum suggested that the guys at Sumotalk be emailed the string about henka started by Iwa. I received it and gave it a humorous treatment. Some people have written in to us and loved it and the way I write. Not for everyone, so what? I obviously do not know you (you're all anonymous), so it really isn't personal. And if I pick on your writing abilities, well, my bad as they say. I'm a professional writer and sometimes can't stop myself from potshotting ducks (and that is not to say your writing is without charm). I'm sure there are many things others here can do far better than me and could make me feel small about my abilities.

So, keep visiting Sumotalk, please. But don't expect me to be reverent. Reverent ain't funny, knowhatimean?

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Not wanting to become a "fangeek", I reluctantly join the fray... (Blushing...)
(somehow the totemic Chinese tome The Art of War, apparently written by Tom Cruise, became a misguided Western fixation on exotic Japaneseness, huh?)

I as well wouldn't be worried about Clancy, I'm not even very sure he actually read you post very well, as he restates one part of your argument (more or less) in an attempt to belittle you.

But anyhoo... I do like reading Sumotalk.com, because it is caustic and opinionated just like I am, and make sure to do so everyday on Honbasho. That said however, Clancy's articles are just flavor, no filling. A humorous way to read the day's results, but almost all the information he presents can be easily garnered from watching the videos on Banzuke.com (or NHK 1 if you are a lucky bastard like me (A yokozuna...)) Personally I thought it was too bad that he took time away from talking about Senshuraku, spending it instead flaming strangers.

But of course everyone's argument is fueled purely on personal opinion. ;-)

I mean come on, this isn't Algebra we're talking about.

Good post.

I find myself agreeing with both sides here. I'm ambivalent about henka too which I'm sure many others are as well. Unfortunately it's just the nature of the debate that it's diehard for or against that rings out loud the most. So loud it hurts your ears sometimes.

But I enjoy reading SumoTalk and I think it clearly fills a void for non japanese speaking sumo fans. To call it biased or overly subjective I find meaningless. This is a column presenting a view, an opinion. It's not supposed to be objective and it's not supposed to be boring either, for this type of column that's a sin, and Clancy's (and I see him posting here so welcome) most certainly isn't.

Edited by Taka

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Asashosakari--I'm not going to list all the times I have heard discussions about the content of someone's sumo being a factor in their decision making process in one day's report. And the kyokai cetainly do take it nto account. Sure, it hardly ever results in a denial of promotion, but it can and SHOULD, which is really the main point I was making.

And if wishes were horses... In other words, you were claiming your unsupported opinion as fact, just as I said you were. You might also want to go back to what I wrote about you uncritically falling for the "sumo content matters oh so much" spin that the Kyokai likes to put into their public pronouncements. If that's the kind of sterling analysis that leads to things like your "airtight argument against the henka" that you apparently made back in September (sorry, don't care that much to track it down, and at any rate the site doesn't seem to list any archives from Aki basho), don't be surprised if you continue to be taken less than seriously. Do the casual fans that frequent Sumotalk really go for this kind of fact-challenged fluff? Well, takes all kinds, I guess.

I did enjoy your whistling-past-the-graveyard, "Gawd, I'm lowering myself to the level of debating fanboys" attitude, though perhaps not for the reasons you intended. BTW, I know of another professional writer who writes in a style very similar to yours, albeit about pro-wrestling. He's doing it strictly for satire. Are you?

At any rate, kudos for jumping into this thread.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Edit: By the way, I find it incredibly ironic that a self-proclaimed "expert" would fall for the Kyokai's public smoke-and-mirrors about sumo quality. Sure, those statements frequently make it into interviews, but try coming up with one, just one, reasonably contemporary example where sumo quality was actually the clear, main reason for denying somebody's Ozeki or Yokozuna promotion. Please, I beg you.

in general those who tell others they themsleves are an expert and you are not, or act as if their oppinion is superior to your with no humility in the matter are quite the opposite of being an expert. a real expert knows that they do not know anything and that it is highly likely many other people can still teach them many many things in their area of "expertise". a self-proclaimed expert is generally a pompus high brow ass. which is what the other site sounds like. however, i have never seen a message board over there, so i cant say for sure. but just in general people who say "im so smart, your so stupid" are too narrow minded to be an expert at anything.

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Asashosakari--I'm not going to list all the times I have heard discussions about the content of someone's sumo being a factor in their decision making process in one day's report. And the kyokai cetainly do take it nto account. Sure, it hardly ever results in a denial of promotion, but it can and SHOULD, which is really the main point I was making.

And if wishes were horses... In other words, you were claiming your unsupported opinion as fact, just as I said you were. You might also want to go back to what I wrote about you uncritically falling for the "sumo content matters oh so much" spin that the Kyokai likes to put into their public pronouncements. If that's the kind of sterling analysis that leads to things like your "airtight argument against the henka" that you apparently made back in September (sorry, don't care that much to track it down, and at any rate the site doesn't seem to list any archives from Aki basho), don't be surprised if you continue to be taken less than seriously. Do the casual fans that frequent Sumotalk really go for this kind of fact-challenged fluff? Well, takes all kinds, I guess.

I did enjoy your whistling-past-the-graveyard, "Gawd, I'm lowering myself to the level of debating fanboys" attitude, though perhaps not for the reasons you intended. BTW, I know of another professional writer who writes in a style very similar to yours, albeit about pro-wrestling. He's doing it strictly for satire. Are you?

At any rate, kudos for jumping into this thread.

No , not at all, but one thing about writing a column. It gets pretty boring if the writer goes on and on citing examples to support his point. This isn't some thesis level essay, after all. There is a certain level of trust the reader needs to bring to the table. If the reader chooses to think that I'm blowing smoke where it doesn't belong, they have that choice. But I feel, based on my observation of years of sumo, that my point about the Koykai using quailty as one measuring stick is valid (sorry for typos, I'm holding my infant).

My argument against the henka from Sept. was the bit in parenthesis right after I mentioned it, and yes, "airtight" was hyperbole.

BTW, your surety that the Kyokai are being disingenuous about caring about sumo content doesn't feel like unsupported opinion to you, does it?

And please, no need to insult the fans of Sumotalk. They are no more casual than you, I'd be willing to wager, whoever you are under that cloak of anonymity.

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I do enjoy reading sumotalk, and I treat its "opinion" content with a grain of salt, just like every other opinion here. I like to read all the sumo content I can get my hands on, and it is quite special in its flavor and irreverence.

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Good to see the guys from Sumotalk have been stirred up in controversy...

I'm a bit surprised to see how sensitive everyone has gotten about this, though. I mean, sure, Clancy's comments were meant to be provocative, but then again so was sending them the thread.

I don't think (at least I hope not) that the "experts" at Sumo Talk really consider themselves "experts", so we should probably take things with a grain of salt here. Much of what is written there IS (again, I hope it is...) meant to be humorous, so getting all hyped-up about their comments seems a bit pointless.

I myself rather enjoy reading their column, although more as entertainment than extensive sumo analysis -

Turning back to the henka issue, I also think it's good for people to have diverging opinions on it, and very good bits have been written both ways. I remain convinced that here is nothing wrong (at all) with a henka, but at least I'm quite clear on why others think differently, and a lot of that has to do with their "philosophy" on sumo.

I guess my point is this: the arguing and squabbling doesn't really bother me at all, even when it's a bit provocative, and the different perspectives which emerge from the debate give a bit more color to sumo, which, in my opinion, can only be a good thing.

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Edit: By the way, I find it incredibly ironic that a self-proclaimed "expert" would fall for the Kyokai's public smoke-and-mirrors about sumo quality. Sure, those statements frequently make it into interviews, but try coming up with one, just one, reasonably contemporary example where sumo quality was actually the clear, main reason for denying somebody's Ozeki or Yokozuna promotion. Please, I beg you.

in general those who tell others they themsleves are an expert and you are not, or act as if their oppinion is superior to your with no humility in the matter are quite the opposite of being an expert. a real expert knows that they do not know anything and that it is highly likely many other people can still teach them many many things in their area of "expertise". a self-proclaimed expert is generally a pompus high brow ass. which is what the other site sounds like. however, i have never seen a message board over there, so i cant say for sure. but just in general people who say "im so smart, your so stupid" are too narrow minded to be an expert at anything.

Quite right, The Mind. Calling myself an expert on sumo is, of course, hyperbole, but I can and do write about it and have a good time doing it and seem to be making at least a few people smile. If you read my posts (which I'm sure you do despite your sly, I'll-have-no-truck-with-that-ilk reference to "the other site") you'd realize (or should realize) that pompous is something I am definitely not.

Despite your appeal to Aristotle, a real expert in fact DOES know they know something, and I despise false humility. For example, I am without question a more aware and competent driver than most other drivers here on Awaji (course, they're all about 90 years old or so) and this based on (you'll have to trust me on this, Asa) numerous instances where my behavior is right and theirs is just plain bad and/or clueless and rude. No need to tell me it is all relative, or that my p.o.v. is but one.

In the end, the only ones who can decide if we are on the side of goodness and truth is us, isn't that right, Iwa-san?

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Good to see the guys from Sumotalk have been stirred up in controversy...

I'm a bit surprised to see how sensitive everyone has gotten about this, though. I mean, sure, Clancy's comments were meant to be provocative, but then again so was sending them the thread.

I don't think (at least I hope not) that the "experts" at Sumo Talk really consider themselves "experts", so we should probably take things with a grain of salt here. Much of what is written there IS (again, I hope it is...) meant to be humorous, so getting all hyped-up about their comments seems a bit pointless.

I myself rather enjoy reading their column, although more as entertainment than extensive sumo analysis -

Turning back to the henka issue, I also think it's good for people to have diverging opinions on it, and very good bits have been written both ways. I remain convinced that here is nothing wrong (at all) with a henka, but at least I'm quite clear on why others think differently, and a lot of that has to do with their "philosophy" on sumo.

I guess my point is this: the arguing and squabbling doesn't really bother me at all, even when it's a bit provocative, and the different perspectives which emerge from the debate give a bit more color to sumo, which, in my opinion, can only be a good thing.

Slt

Exactly! Well put.

But you shouldn't be surprised about the sensitivity. Berke Breathed drew a wonderful cartoon back in the 80's where Opus was on his bench and people started coming around and saying they were offended by this and by that and it kept escalating until Opus looked at the audience and muttered with shrugged shoulders, "Offensensitivity".

The moderators have taken over the world, and those of us who cherish good-natured agitation and chaos (without language, and therefore thought, being censored) are not viewed in the finest light. We can put on our Sunday best and play along, but the only way to make it through is find like-minded beings (may be felines, naturally) and hole up with them and a strong conviction that we have the right to be the way we are.

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Moderators: Please accept my advance request to delete this post whenever you finish reading it, and issue me a warning.

If you don't appreciate coarse language, please read no further....

All right everyone, just calm down.

I stated my opinion about henkas. Some people agreed, some did not. My main point was that it really isn't my place, or anyone's place to judge. The henka exists, and that's all there is to it. All the badmouthing of the rikishi because of a henka is beyond the pale. If you think you can do it better, then step up. Stop deriding Chiyotaikai (or whoever else you think you're better than), and throwing personal insults about him out into the world.

Someone Henka'd St. Kotonowaka, and now he's a lowlife piece of shit, and he out to be banned, and he's got a small dick, and whatever other inane childish insult you can think of gets thrown out to the world too?

If I am not mistaken, this is exactly the kind of digression against the spirit of sumo that you so loudly rail against. Isn't there any dignity in this topic? Do any of you who throw insults at the very mention of the word henka see that your insults and caustic language degrade the honor of sumo as much, or more than, the stupid henka?

Fans (or "experts") such as the ones I have apparently rubbed the wrong way, are an insult to the whole concept of honor and dignity that they so violently claim to protect. Fitting I suppose. If you want to read my lame rant, highlight it I guess....

It goes something like this, every time. "Sumo is about honor, and dignity and the gentle struggle of man against himself. Henka does not fit my idea of what sumo is all about, therefore, any rikishi who does a henka is a lazy fucking lowlife piece of shit that out to have his head cut off and buried in acid, and have his fucking stupid idiot eyes poked out and eaten by a fucking dog, and after all that he out to be fucking banned from sumo all together, and if I could get close to him, I'd fucking kick his bitch ass from here to sunday, and back again, because I know what sumo is fucking all about and he doesn't know shit. And if you disagree with me, you're a fucking retard, and you don't know shit about sumo, and I ought to beat you down too, but you're so fucking stupid, I can't even talk to you, much less bother to come over there and kick your stupid hick ass."

Did I get it all? Is the argument won? Because as we all know, the only thing that matters is that I won the argument about Henka.

Clancy, you aren't a straight shooter. You're a pissy little man with a big mouth. I didn't do anything at all you, that required you to go off you your lame internet attack on my intelligence, or whatever it was that you did in your colloquial rant. I just posted my opinion.

It doesn't matter. I don't have any problem with you being a pissy little man, and I don't have any problem if you think the meaning of sumo is to not Henka. You are totally entitled to both.

Everyone else, just drop it. We can have a more civilized, and good natured, discussion about it another time.

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you dispise false humility clancey?...interesting. a little humility goes a long way. even when someone who clearly knows much is conserned when speaking to someone who knows less about said topic amoungst themselves. a teacher doesnt usually say "i have forgotten more about this topic then you will ever know". it doesnt need to be said, but having false humility is less rude and doesnt alienate the person your in theory trying to connect with in your conversation. unless your intent is more to act dominent rather then to have discussion.

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speaking of sumotalk.

was shocked to see this picture. hokutoriki sumperimposed against the river in my hometown. the building on the far left is the zen dojo i used to used when in ireland. i lived maybe 2 minutes walk from where the photo was taken! where did this come from??

90bd0731.jpg

Nice cover up try.. We've all known for a long time that you are actually... Simon Siddall!! The truth has been revealed..

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hmmm (Laughing...)

sumotalk.com?

I'm afraid I'd never heard of it before this thread. I took a look, and can see

why some would be offended. Not my cup of tea either, but the more sumo

fans the merrier, I guess. It strikes me as a webpage version of sports talk

radio. Plenty of people listen to that, even if it generates more heat than light...

Dale

Really tempted to add the keyword "expert" to my sumo movies site and see

how it does on Google after a while. Nah.... :)

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hmmm (Laughing...)

sumotalk.com?

I'm afraid I'd never heard of it before this thread. I took a look, and can see

why some would be offended. Not my cup of tea either, but the more sumo

fans the merrier, I guess. It strikes me as a webpage version of sports talk

radio. Plenty of people listen to that, even if it generates more heat than light...

Dale

Really tempted to add the keyword "expert" to my sumo movies site and see

how it does on Google after a while. Nah.... :)

Iwa, man you went off! Nice rant! I do think, Iwa, that you summed up your own wild first post a little disingenuously, but whatever.

Yea, the other guys at Sumotalk are not at all as ascerbic (sp?) as I am. Sumotalk of course is a far better read than anything else going about sumo in English, which is why I chose to start writing for them. I wouldn't write for People magazine and I wouldn't write for Sumofanmag. There are some good writers over there, but it's mostly so tepid and by the numbers, like that horribly boring Las Vegas report (which many people, I know, prefer).

It feels strange to have to write this, but of course I don't really think KDTO is a gollum. He is probably a very nice man, as all of them are, including Chiyo. I stated as much in my very first column for Sumotalk. I also stated that they could all kick my ass and that I do not know their personal reasons for doing whatever they do, but that my comments are for fun reading and perhaps the occasional insight that you possibly had not already had yourselves.

I do know I am writing about real people, and if they are real people they will see the humor for what it is.

I'm not a macho, crazy, s.o.b., just irreverent and I'd be the first to admit it. I don't know everything and don't try to claim I do.

But it is true, I am a publicly recognized, as opposed to anonymous, featured columnist on a professionally produced sumo website (Mike does a great job, whatever some might say), lauded by some and derided by others. Most of the people here on this forum just want to chat and enjoy sumo, so I won't make any comments about Sumoforum from now on.

Finally, I have never been nor would I want to be liked by everyone, especialy those who cannot see the henka for what it is.

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Iwa, man you went off! Nice rant! I do think, Iwa, that you summed up your own wild first post a little disingenuously, but whatever.

I think you clicked "reply" on the wrong post...

Dale

(I know- don't feed them...)

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And the reason I am on Sumotalk is because Mike feels I write well...

[...]

I'm a professional writer...

Incredibly funny coming from a man who stuffs his posts with typos and doesn't even bother to look up "ascerbic". (Laughing...)

Yes, I know, too much English teachers among these fangeeks... (Laughing...)

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Yes, I know, too much English teachers among these fangeeks... (Laughing...)

Err, that's too MANY English teachers ...

(Sorry, couldn't resist, but as Jakusotsu is a friend, I know he'll take this the right way (Laughing...) )

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Please be careful that you don't start flagellating fellow bipeds instead of that quadruped...

As for anonymity: I don't know about other members, but my identity is no secret. And I believe it's the same for many of the most active posters here...

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I really really really ought to do my exam work on the subject of science, knowledge and philosophy (exciting, isn't it!), but this thread is just so much more interesting.

Henka? Hmm, in one way I feel that it's bad. I mean, how exciting exactly is it to watch the two rikishis prepare and prepare and prepare - and the actual bout to last half a second? So in that way a henka spoils my fun. Otherwise? Weeell, it's a bit like raising children - you do what works. If it works, and it's not against the rules - then it's OK and perhaps even a good idea.

Sumotalk? Well, even though the two "new" gyus do embroid a bit to far sometimes, they are always fun to read. I mean, come on, I'm not going to marry them or vote them for president or whatever. I don't have to agree with a single letter to enjoy it.

Uuh, I'd better get back now...

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Finally, I have never been nor would I want to be liked by everyone, especialy those who cannot see the henka for what it is.

You mean, if I think henka is good, you wouldn't want me to like you?

I think we all see the henka "for what it is". We just disagree about what the "it" actually is.

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Apparently this horse isn't totally dead, so let's beat it some more, huh?

...

As far as sumo is concerned, I let my opinion form mostly according to what the old respected guys say. They usually don

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BTW, your surety that the Kyokai are being disingenuous about caring about sumo content doesn't feel like unsupported opinion to you, does it?

It's a hypothesis, sure. The difference to yours is that mine is at least supported by the evidence - or rather, the utter absence of evidence that supports your position.

Actually, after thinking about it some more, I suspect your opinion (and by extension, mine) isn't wrong or right so much as having an opinion on the subject is completely vapid. As far as I can tell, it doesn't matter whether sumo quality has an influence on Ozeki and Yokozuna promotion, because the kind of truly atrocious sumo that might cause the Kyokai to balk simply doesn't even get you into that position in the first place. What was Asanowaka's highest rank again? Or Kyokushuzan's? How close has Hokutoriki ever gotten to Ozeki? Even somebody like Kotooshu couldn't exclusively henka his way to 33 wins.

And please, no need to insult the fans of Sumotalk. They are no more casual than you, I'd be willing to wager, whoever you are under that cloak of anonymity.

It wasn't meant as an insult, though it's interesting that you considered it one. There are people who watch fluff like Big Brother on TV...not my kinda thing, but to each their own. I watch other fluff that would probably get me laughed or at least giggled at by you and others here. I do prefer my fluff to be strictly fictional and not fiction passed off as reality, but we've already established that, I think.

And could you please give that "you're all anonymous, wahhhh!" thing a rest? The real names of many of us are pretty well known around these parts, even if you don't know them. Besides, appeals to authority are a fallacy, and appealing to the authority of your posting under a real name is really weak. This is the internet, please deal with the fact that people will be pseudonymous (not anonymous...don't they teach the difference in writing school anymore?). Case in point: How the heck do I even know that "Clancy Kelly" is your real name? (Hi, my name is John Smith!) This is just a silly thing to keep harping on, and doesn't particularly improve your profile as far as I'm concerned. It does confirm plenty of my existing prejudices about the hubris of "professional" writers though, so well done on that front at least. (You are going off-topic...)

Edited by Asashosakari

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