Kotonowaka Intai

[sashimaru 10]

...

I agree, Shunketsu was already make-koshi, and since he knew beforehand (announcement came earlier today) that Kotonowaka was retiring, he should have given him a real match. Jerk. What a way to go.

...

I think this is all Komahikari had to offer. (Laughing...)

Until today I always ignored him. From now on I will love to hate him.

Goodbye Kotonowaka. (Weeping...)

How long will it last until his deshi will equals his number of uwatenage-victories?

[Asashosakari 18,784]

Who is the Makuuchi senior now that he's retired ?

Kaio, then Tosanoumi.

The other way around. Tosanoumi is five months older.

At any rate, while Shunketsu's henka left a bad taste in my mouth as well, can we please keep in mind that the guy is trying to save his Makuuchi rank and thus a substantial part of his income for the next two months? It wasn't pretty, for sure, but if you expect that most other rikishi would have foregone the chance to henka in such a situation against a henka-prone rikishi like Kotonowaka, I have a couple of bridges to sell you.

Edited November 25, 2005 by Asashosakari

[QttP 0]

As Asasosakari pointed out, this bout was important to Shunketsu and not nearly as important to Kotonowaka. Hence, I see no problem with the henka.

[Shimpu 0]

As Asasosakari pointed out, this bout was important to Shunketsu and not nearly as important to Kotonowaka.

That is the point. Kotonowaka as a sekitori is over - with or without this win. Shunketsu still has a chance to stay in makuuchi.

BTW it is rather difficult to be an oyakata when there are better rikishi in your own heya then you are. How they can listen to him if they know that they are more skillful ? (Weeping...)

[Faustonowaka 112]

Damn, there goes my favourite rikishi...

I can only hope that he will continue for a long time as Sadogatake Oyakata

And at least he gave (Censored) Shunketsu a nice elbow in the face before stepping out

Edited November 25, 2005 by Faustonowaka

[Mark Buckton 1]

As Asasosakari pointed out, this bout was important to Shunketsu and not nearly as important to Kotonowaka.

BTW it is rather difficult to be an oyakata when there are better rikishi in your own heya then you are. How they can listen to him if they know that they are more skillful ? (Weeping...)

not all heya top dogs are ex yokozunas. Akebono's boss wasn't / the Taka / Waka etc boss wasn't a Y. Asashoryu's isn't / Tochiazuma's too / the list is very long of those in action today who have reached higher ranks than their ooyakata.

On the other hand - Taiho produced Roho late on - look at him. Chiyonofuji produced Taikai and Tenzan - hello? Kitanoumi - what can I say?

[Hashira 0]

BTW it is rather difficult to be an oyakata when there are better rikishi in your own heya then you are. How they can listen to him if they know that they are more skillful ? (Weeping...)

same as any other sport. The athletes are (almost always) better than their coaches, or else the coaches would be still competing, no? Not a problem, if the rikishi have the right attitude

[ilovesumo 12]

Sad sad day.......... (Weeping...) (and damn henka)

I (Weeping...) ...Kotonowaka will be missed......... *sniff*

So let's hope to see him quiet often as the tallest shinpan!

@ Jackie (Consoling...)...nobody can stand "dry-eyed" watching this interview (Laughing...)

(Eek...) Kotonowaka-seki.

[Asashosakari 18,784]

BTW it is rather difficult to be an oyakata when there are better rikishi in your own heya then you are. How they can listen to him if they know that they are more skillful ? (In a state of confusion...)

not all heya top dogs are ex yokozunas. Akebono's boss wasn't / the Taka / Waka etc boss wasn't a Y. Asashoryu's isn't / Tochiazuma's too / the list is very long of those in action today who have reached higher ranks than their ooyakata.

On the other hand - Taiho produced Roho late on - look at him. Chiyonofuji produced Taikai and Tenzan - hello? Kitanoumi - what can I say?

Yeah, the Kyokai trots out the "only a yokozuna can properly raise another yokozuna" argument as well when it suits them. Completely unsupported by reality, and as you're pointing out the ex-Yokozuna aren't particularly good at it anyway.

[Shimpu 0]

The athletes are (almost always) better than their coaches, or else the coaches would be still competing, no?

Agree, but it is rather unusual that you were fighting against your oyakata on the dohyo and you kicked his ass. I mean they are from the same generation of rikishi (because of Kotonowaka long-standing career, I am not talking about age)

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

BTW it is rather difficult to be an oyakata when there are better rikishi in your own heya then you are. How they can listen to him if they know that they are more skillful ? (In a state of confusion...)

not all heya top dogs are ex yokozunas. Akebono's boss wasn't / the Taka / Waka etc boss wasn't a Y. Asashoryu's isn't / Tochiazuma's too / the list is very long of those in action today who have reached higher ranks than their ooyakata.

On the other hand - Taiho produced Roho late on - look at him. Chiyonofuji produced Taikai and Tenzan - hello? Kitanoumi - what can I say?

Yeah, the Kyokai trots out the "only a yokozuna can properly raise another yokozuna" argument as well when it suits them. Completely unsupported by reality, and as you're pointing out the ex-Yokozuna aren't particularly good at it anyway.

I think a case in point is Kumagatani-oyakata and Hakuho. Whenever they talk about each other they very much appear as the master and the pupil although history will tell us that Chikubayama managed to sneak into Makunouchi twice and in fact only even being eligible for borrowing a toshiyori because the criteria were especially slack at the time he retired... Whether or not Hakuho will ever make it big, he most definitely has a more distinguishing career than his oyakata(s)...

Edited November 25, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[QttP 0]

The athletes are (almost always) better than their coaches, or else the coaches would be still competing, no?

Agree, but it is rather unusual that you were fighting against your oyakata on the dohyo and you kicked his ass. I mean they are from the same generation of rikishi (because of Kotonowaka long-standing career, I am not talking about age)

Due to the heya rule, no one of the current Sadogatake rikishi has ever fought Kotonowaka on the dohyo,

[Shimpu 0]

Due to the heya rule, no one of the current Sadogatake rikishi has ever fought Kotonowaka on the dohyo,

(In a state of confusion...) Indeed. I forgot about this rule for a while. (Blushing...)

[sekihiryu 51]

No more long bouts to watch. Kotonowaka must be high up there the most mizu-iri and the average bout length stakes. Boy he had some long bouts!

I thought he was done after his knee injury but he kept going, you have to respect that.

One more of the old guard gone.

(In a state of confusion...)

[Manekineko 200]

I knew this was coming, and still... I'll miss him.

I know I'll be seeing him ringside, and still... I'll miss him.

I know he's not the last of "my" generation of rikishi, but still... it's the end of an era for me. The era colured by my girlish enthusiasm for sumo. Maybe another generation will come that will have me caring as much as I did about Taka & Waka, Ake, Kaio, Kotonishiki, Kotonowaka and Kotoinazuma, Takatoriki and Akinoshima, Terao and Gan'yu, Asanowaka and Mitoizumi. Kaio will be gone soon, too, and that will be it.

So, I'll miss him. A last vestige of my purely subjective golden age of sumo is going with him.

See you on the other side, Sadogatake-oyakata.

[Burainoan 0]

Who is the Makuuchi senior now that he's retired ?

Kaio, then Tosanoumi.

The other way around. Tosanoumi is five months older.

You know, i knew that. i just wasn't paying attention when i looked it up. (Nodding yes...)

actually, i was also thinking in terms of division seniority, as i believe Kaio has now been there longer than anybody, followed by Tosa and (i think) Tochinonada - who has to win Saturday and Sunday or he'll be gone down to juryo like Tamakasuga (one of the other senior guys; 5 weeks older than Tosa).

Edited November 25, 2005 by Burainoan

[TokyoBelle 0]

NHK announcer said today that Kotonowaka was retiring whether he won or lost, because tomorrow is his oyakata's (who is his father-in-law, as well) 65th birthday, so he has to fill in as oyakata and he has to change his name (become the official oyakata) before the matches start tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure Sadogatake would have been allowed to finish the basho as oyakata, as Taiho was in May.

If it was announced in any official way that Kotonowaka would retire after today, he wouldn't have been

allowed to fight today.

Dale

We live in Japan and hear the NHK English broadcast througout the sumo and it WAS announced before the start of yesterday action that he was retiring and his wife and son were there to watch his last bout. The "official" announcement came after the bout, but everyone knew in advance.

The announcer said if Kotonowaka didn't take the name of the oyakata by today (Saturday here in Japan), his fellow wrestlers at Sadogatake would be ineligible to continue this basho, as the oyakata turned 65 today. I am not reporting this as fact, simply regurgitating what the NHK said yesterday.

(Nodding yes...)

[Asashosakari 18,784]

actually, i was also thinking in terms of division seniority, as i believe Kaio has now been there longer than anybody, followed by Tosa and (i think) Tochinonada - who has to win Saturday and Sunday or he'll be gone down to juryo like Tamakasuga (one of the other senior guys; 5 weeks older than Tosa).

Yup, correct on the first two. After Kaio and Tosa, things are pretty close together, but Tochinonada is behind a few more guys, some of whom may surprise you a bit:

Active rikishi with 20+ basho of Makuuchi experience (rikishi currently ranked outside Makuuchi marked with *)

Kaio		   74
Tosanoumi	  63
Kyokushuzan	56
Tochiazuma	 55
Dejima		 53
Tamakasuga*	52
Tochinonada	52
Chiyotaikai	50
Kaiho*		 44
Wakanosato	 44
Kyokutenho	 43
Tokitsuumi*	42
Miyabiyama	 41
Toki*		  38
Takanowaka	 34
Kotomitsuki	32
Aminishiki	 31
Asashoryu	  30
Tamanoshima	30
Jumonji		27
Takamisakari   25
Tochisakae*	25
Otsukasa*	  24
Chiyotenzan*   23
Buyuzan*	   22
Hayateumi*	 22
Hokutoriki	 22
Shimotori	  21

[Zentoryu 154]

I was never a fan of Kotonowaka.

He was a great guy off the dohyo by all acounts, but I wasn't too high on him as a rikishi.

But, regardless of how I felt about him as a wrestler, I will miss him. If anything, he is another of the old guard walking off into the sunset, so to speak. One of the guys who was around in the early days of Waka/Taka/Ake/Musashi, when I first became a sumo fan. It always hurts to lose one of those guys, one of the veterans.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

No more long bouts to watch. Kotonowaka must be high up there the most mizu-iri and the average bout length stakes. Boy he had some long bouts!

6 mizu-iri IIRC...

[Kintamayama 44,349]

Ex-Kotonowaka was interviewed by some TV station donning a suit- (first presentation to the public, says the caption..)

The interview will air on January 4th at 10:50 am- on Yamagata Housou, whatever that is.

[Jonosuke 28]

The interview will air on January 4th at 10:50 am- on Yamagata Housou, whatever that is.

Yamagata Prefecure is where he is from and he still has deep ties with folks back there. I probably think he is one of the most famous persons from Yamagata now. "Housou" is simply Broadcasting so it's either Yamagata TV or Radio, not sure which as I imagine Yamagata Housou has both.

Edited December 17, 2005 by Jonosuke

[Kintamayama 44,349]

Yamagata Prefecure is where he is from and he still has deep ties with folks back there. I probably think he is one of the most famous persons from Yamagata now. "Housou" is simply Broadcasting so it's either Yamagata TV or Radio, not sure which as I imagine Yamagata Housou has both.

I guess it's TV then, since he was decked out in a suit and all..

[Mark Buckton 1]

NHK announcer said today that Kotonowaka was retiring whether he won or lost, because tomorrow is his oyakata's (who is his father-in-law, as well) 65th birthday, so he has to fill in as oyakata and he has to change his name (become the official oyakata) before the matches start tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure Sadogatake would have been allowed to finish the basho as oyakata, as Taiho was in May.

If it was announced in any official way that Kotonowaka would retire after today, he wouldn't have been

allowed to fight today.

Dale

We live in Japan and hear the NHK English broadcast througout the sumo and it WAS announced before the start of yesterday action that he was retiring and his wife and son were there to watch his last bout. The "official" announcement came after the bout, but everyone knew in advance.

The announcer said if Kotonowaka didn't take the name of the oyakata by today (Saturday here in Japan), his fellow wrestlers at Sadogatake would be ineligible to continue this basho, as the oyakata turned 65 today. I am not reporting this as fact, simply regurgitating what the NHK said yesterday.

(I am not worthy...)

bit old but to add to TokyoBelle's comments - the shitakubeya had a lot of flowers down there too to be given to K/waka and family. (as they were on TV) Why if not planned?

[Bishonohana 0]

I will miss him terribly.... (I am not worthy...) (Cheers...) (Zabuton flying...)