Guest notnato Posted September 17, 2005 howdy. first, post, so forgive me for lack of decorum. I live in Japan and have been watching sumo for a couple of years now. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of makunouchi bouts, but yesterdays miyabiyama chiyotaikai match stands out. No matter how I look at it, that was a dive. Maybe it's because I've been talking about the meaning of bout fixing on another forum. Still miyabiyama had no reason at all to fall... and the announcers danced so delicately around it, that I can't help but take a pretty skeptical stance on the entire kyoukai. What are anyone else's thoughts? Fixing has probably come up around here a bunch, but I am really interested in yesterday's bout in particular. Did you see it? Isn't something rotten in denmark? (don't really know many sumo fans, so figured I'd ask here. I actually really love the sport, thus making it that much worse that I suspect obvious match fixing) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taka 33 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) Well you're not alone in your thinking. For an example of that read the columns on sumo talk http://www.sumotalk.com/index.htm . I've watched it a few times and it does seem weak. So did the collective efforts of Futenho and Iwakiyama against Taikai as well, and no one seems weaker than the Ozeki himself. A bad taste is certainly building in my mouth, but still what do I know? What do anyone REALLY know? If someone does or think they do, please speak up... So for now at least let's just say I'll be very interested to see what happens tomorrow against Hakuho. :-O Edited September 17, 2005 by Taka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) Personally if you are shaped like Miyabi with all due respect to Exil (Applauding...) you will be diving more than you care to know (Eating...) Sort of getting off-topic but I have this small patch of veggie garden where I got half a dozen tomato plants growing and there was this bullfrog that looked exactly like Miyabi. He waa there every morning sleeping flat like Miyabi and one time I accidentally hosed him with water, he dived just like Miyabi then. He disappeared just before the Aki Basho started (Yusho winner...) Edited September 17, 2005 by Jonosuke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 209 Posted September 17, 2005 Funny that this bout gave me the exact feeling as to notnato. Usually some reason for easy looking losses but that bout looked immediately super-odd. Miyabiyama is too damn fat and does some horrific sumo losing as if he didn't have any control of his too heavy body but something peculiar in this bout despite that. Shouldn't ever fall down that easily without a slip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exil 301 Posted September 17, 2005 Personally if you are shaped like Miyabi with all due respect to Exil (Applauding...) you will be diving more than you care to know (Eating...) He also tends to lean forward at a 45 degree angle, which leaves him very vulnerable to henka, hatakikomi, hikiotoshi and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Miyabiyama falling down is a proof of Newton's law of gravitation, not bout fixing. :-) Sort of getting off-topic but I have this small patch of veggie garden where I got half a dozen tomato plants growing and there was this bullfrog that looked exactly like Miyabi. He waa there every morning sleeping flat like Miyabi and one time I accidentally hosed him with water, he dived just like Miyabi then. He disappeared just before the Aki Basho started (Yusho winner...) (Eating...) So, you're saying you've never seen Miyabiyama and the bullfrog together...? :-O Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwagakki 0 Posted September 17, 2005 Personally if you are shaped like Miyabi with all due respect to Exil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted September 17, 2005 (Eating...) (Yusho winner...) (Applauding...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notnato Posted September 17, 2005 I believe that match fixing is not just an urban legend, but I've never felt so certain I'd seen it until this match. When it gets to be the 15th day, and you're at 7 and 7, you would probably talk to your adversary, and arrange something too, whether by way of money, or a match at a later basho. I think that's pretty natural... and I don't really think that is so offensive. But chiyotaikai is in such bad condition he can't even pull off a good fake takedown. If he finishes this basho with a winning record, I'll lose virtually all faith in the sport. Unless I see him shake the lead out and actually win matches convincingly, of course. Or maybe I'll just chalk it up to the power of the maroon mawashi he's been sporting since day three. He's four and 0 since he put that miracle diaper on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Araiwa 0 Posted September 17, 2005 But it would be even stranger if Miyabiyama didn't fall flat on his face. In this basho Miyabiyama seems to spend more time lying on the dohyo than standing. He is in the worst shape that I've seen him for a while. Maybe it looked suspicious, but Miyabiyama was very Miyabiyama-like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,144 Posted September 17, 2005 I disagree. Anyone else diving like that, I'd raise half an eyebrow. Miyabiyama falls over himself all the time. There is no fixing in Sumo. There is no reason for it. It is dishonorable. Some guys may "hold back" under certain circumstances, but I highly doubt anyone with a statistical chance at KK would dive. If he were 5-8 or something, I might have raised the other half, but he still has a chance at KK-see his win today.. No way!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bennyloh 0 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) The fall didn't surprise me, that was very fast action around the edge (and with the rikishis alternating position too) of the dohyo. Miayabi's poor form too. Edited September 17, 2005 by bennyloh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sashimaru 10 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) It wasn't necessary to pay Miybiyama to dive. He is that bad. Perhaps Miyabiyama is asked by the yobidashi to compress the dohyo. (Yusho winner...) Edited September 17, 2005 by sashimaru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest masamune2005 Posted September 17, 2005 hey, this is my first post...(Yusho winner...) i have been watching the bouts everyday and wondered about taikai...i dont know if the last few days were 100% legit, but after seeing today's fight against hakuho im convinced he does have the power to take out miyabiyama or iwaki. i dont believe there is active collusion in sumo but within the heirarchy a rikishi may go easy in a bout to defer to his senior. it is a standard feature of japanese culture in general and i expect it to carry over into the extremely heirarchical sumo culture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashunowaka 300 Posted September 17, 2005 Personally I think that if you keep looking for signs of fixed bouts, you will see it. For me, that detracts from the enjoyment of sumo, so I don't want to do that. It doesn't mean that I rule out the possibility of fixed bouts. But without any proof, I think it is pointless to speculate. In all sports you will at times see athletes not doing their best, without getting paid extra for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bennyloh 0 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) The fall didn't surprise me, that was very fast action around the edge (and with the rikishis alternating position too) of the dohyo. Miayabi's poor form too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Often in that precarious position (losing one's balance while still in motion) two things comes to mind a) to dive or do the breakfall that he is so accustomed to or if he hesitates b) risk hurting himself falling awarkdly and disastrously. Most will automatically take the first course of action, it may look like a 'fix'. Edited September 18, 2005 by bennyloh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notnato Posted September 19, 2005 The fall didn't surprise me, that was very fast action around the edge (and with the rikishis alternating position too) of the dohyo. Miayabi's poor form too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Often in that precarious position (losing one's balance while still in motion) two things comes to mind a) to dive or do the breakfall that he is so accustomed to or if he hesitates b) risk hurting himself falling awarkdly and disastrously. Most will automatically take the first course of action, it may look like a 'fix'. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think we're talking about the same match. like I said, this one was different. no one was anywhere near the edge, nobody switched positions. it was a 5 second match that ended square in the middle of the ring... but I won't work to keep the thread alive. I agree miyabiyama's been crap lately, but I'm not calling foul everytime someone falls down. This was pretty ridiculous. anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bennyloh 0 Posted September 19, 2005 The fall didn't surprise me, that was very fast action around the edge (and with the rikishis alternating position too) of the dohyo. Miayabi's poor form too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Often in that precarious position (losing one's balance while still in motion) two things comes to mind a) to dive or do the breakfall that he is so accustomed to or if he hesitates b) risk hurting himself falling awarkdly and disastrously. Most will automatically take the first course of action, it may look like a 'fix'. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think we're talking about the same match. like I said, this one was different. no one was anywhere near the edge, nobody switched positions. it was a 5 second match that ended square in the middle of the ring... but I won't work to keep the thread alive. I agree miyabiyama's been crap lately, but I'm not calling foul everytime someone falls down. This was pretty ridiculous. anyway, thanks for your thoughts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...then I must be talking about another bout, my apologies first, (depended on memory all along) Couldn't source anywhere for a replay at this moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites