Kintamayama 45,143 Posted September 13, 2005 There is talk in the papers now that with a good Yusho, Osh may be promoted to Ozeki. 10 wins in Natsu (from Maegashira 5..), 12 in Nagoya.. It sounds like SF BS to me, but can anyone see this as a real possibility? Has it been done before? Kuma!Tora! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shomishuu 0 Posted September 13, 2005 There is talk in the papers now that with a good Yusho, Osh may be promoted to Ozeki.10 wins in Natsu (from Maegashira 5..), 12 in Nagoya.. It sounds like SF BS to me, but can anyone see this as a real possibility? Has it been done before? Kuma!Tora! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In 1962, Tochihikari was promoted with this three-basho resume: M4: 11-4 Komusubi: 10-5 Sekiwake: 13-2 Jun-yusho Anything prior to 1955, I'd have to do more research. But back to the issue: Desperate times call for desperate measures.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Azumashida 1 Posted September 13, 2005 Desperate times call for desperate measures.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure, but would that mean keeping the gaijin out of the top positions at all costs, or the opposite? (to reassure those who might think of me as a conspiracy theorist lamenting the banzuke treatment of foreigners, let me add that I'd also rather imagine that the Kyokai would like to replace their ailing ozeki, but as long as we're talking about desperation, we can speculate in what direction the extreme measures would be - all in all, the reasons for desperation in both directions could perhaps even each other out, since presumably not everyone would agree on the matter of Osh's promotion)... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted September 13, 2005 There is talk in the papers now that with a good Yusho, Osh may be promoted to Ozeki.10 wins in Natsu (from Maegashira 5..), 12 in Nagoya.. It sounds like SF BS to me, but can anyone see this as a real possibility? Has it been done before? Kuma!Tora! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see Wakanosato as a more likely candidate. The old ozeki corps have been his main stumbling block to getting double digit bashos. Since they are fading fast from the scene, he may finally get his act together. My dream sekitori has been Wakanotenho where Sato would fight the first 8 days and Kyukotenhu would fight the last 7. Kotoosho needs a little more experience, but he would be close behind Sato. Hakuho strikes me as the Sato replacement for perennial Sekiwake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashunowaka 300 Posted September 13, 2005 There is talk in the papers now that with a good Yusho, Osh may be promoted to Ozeki. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure, why not. My feeling is that he should need at least 13-2 to be considered, and a yusho wouldn't hurt his chances. I see Wakanosato as a more likely candidate. The old ozeki corps have been his main stumbling block to getting double digit bashos. Since they are fading fast from the scene, he may finally get his act together. My dream sekitori has been Wakanotenho where Sato would fight the first 8 days and Kyukotenhu would fight the last 7. Kotoosho needs a little more experience, but he would be close behind Sato. Hakuho strikes me as the Sato replacement for perennial Sekiwake. So, now Hakuho has gone from "near certain yokozuna" to "perennial sekiwake"? Give him a break, he is injured. He is still just 20 years old, and still a major talent. Wakanosato can absolutely not be promoted to ozeki after this basho, so I don't think he can be a more likely ozeki candidate than Kotooshu at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,344 Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) In 1962, Tochihikari was promoted with this three-basho resume:M4: Edited September 13, 2005 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted September 13, 2005 So, now Hakuho has gone from "near certain yokozuna" to "perennial sekiwake"? Give him a break, he is injured. He is still just 20 years old, and still a major talent.Wakanosato can absolutely not be promoted to ozeki after this basho, so I don't think he can be a more likely ozeki candidate than Kotooshu at the moment. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Should have been clearer. I don't think either will be promoted for Kyushu, but would almost put some money on one of the two making it in Hatsu. Agree Hakuho is a major talent, but, even before he was injured, I suspected that he would stall out. I was wrong about something else a few years ago, but I'm not due for another error for a year or so. (Welcome...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,970 Posted September 13, 2005 I still don't see Kotooshu as proper Ozeki material just yet. On days 1&2 his opponents literally beat themselves without much impact from him, and today's lucky win against Kyokutenho shows that he's still all over the place in many of his bouts. In comparison Miyabiyama looked much more viable back then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shomishuu 0 Posted September 13, 2005 Desperate times call for desperate measures.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure, but would that mean keeping the gaijin out of the top positions at all costs, or the opposite? (to reassure those who might think of me as a conspiracy theorist lamenting the banzuke treatment of foreigners, let me add that I'd also rather imagine that the Kyokai would like to replace their ailing ozeki, but as long as we're talking about desperation, we can speculate in what direction the extreme measures would be - all in all, the reasons for desperation in both directions could perhaps even each other out, since presumably not everyone would agree on the matter of Osh's promotion)... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> FWIW, the desperate measures I meant were 'desperate to have a worthy ozeki' rather than the other kind. Kotooshu looks closer than Wakanosato...he doesn't have the history of frustration to overcome, and Waka's age is getting to be a factor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avitohol 0 Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) I still don't see Kotooshu as proper Ozeki material just yet. On days 1&2 his opponents literally beat themselves without much impact from him, and today's lucky win against Kyokutenho shows that he's still all over the place in many of his bouts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "lucky win" (Welcome...) it was a good win. (West wins...) Edited September 14, 2005 by Avitohol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted September 14, 2005 I still don't see Kotooshu as proper Ozeki material just yet Yap... coward... only sidestepping... There is no real chest to chest fight... Ozeki ? No way, not now ! (Welcome...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,344 Posted September 14, 2005 Yap... coward... only sidestepping... There is no real chest to chest fight... Ozeki ? No way, not now ! (Welcome...) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I take it you prefer rikishi who display stupid sumo, then? I'm far from the biggest Kotooshu supporter here, and my general impression of him is roughly the same as Jakusotsu's, but really, if his opponents keep running at him with their head way down (as Kakizoe did again today), what do you expect him to do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Araiwa 0 Posted September 14, 2005 I still don't see Kotooshu as proper Ozeki material just yet Yap... coward... only sidestepping... There is no real chest to chest fight... Ozeki ? No way, not now ! (Welcome...) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think he should be called a coward, but this is really not ozeki sumo. He may be 4-0 but all he did was escaping narrow losses. He can't do that forever...Maybe it's his hip-injury that's still keeping him from doing the sumo of last basho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted September 14, 2005 I take it you prefer rikishi who display stupid sumo, then? No, I prefer rikishi who takes victory by fight... Ozeki waiting for gift from Kakizoe ? No way. (Welcome...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 209 Posted September 14, 2005 Well Kotooshu is winning and is 4-0 now despite quite shaky sumo. That can be a sign of high quality rikishi too. Kind of like KaioU went with hatakikomi-series when he had tailbone mess couple of years ago in one basho. Still, it is strange how his foes can't finish him off and he always slips away. Tenho had him already and Kokkai had him and Kakizoe today had good attack but Osh is able to move aside and somehow squirm away. Quite a special skill too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faustonowaka 129 Posted September 14, 2005 Kyushu is too soon IMHO, unless both Chiyotaikai and KaioU retire this basho (very unlikely). Even then Osh would at least need a 13-2 Yusho (Enjoyable TV program...) to be promoted. I say promotion in januari after an 11-4 basho now and another 11-4 in Kyushu. Hakuho is too young to be an Ozeki, give the boy another year or two. Sato too inconsistent when it comes to the deciding basho, never will be an Ozeki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otokonoyama 2,735 Posted September 15, 2005 I still don't see Kotooshu as proper Ozeki material just yet Yap... coward... only sidestepping... There is no real chest to chest fight... Ozeki ? No way, not now ! ;-) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think he should be called a coward, but this is really not ozeki sumo. He may be 4-0 but all he did was escaping narrow losses. He can't do that forever...Maybe it's his hip-injury that's still keeping him from doing the sumo of last basho. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> FWIW, the guest oyakata on NHK's Japanese language broadcast yesterday (the one with the super gravelly, crushed larynx voice, similar to Azumazeki oyakata) asked the commentator how tall Osh is (2m04cm), and then replied that he isn't displaying the sumo expected of a guy that big/tall...much too defensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted September 15, 2005 Another day with Kotooshus "smart" sumo (Sign of disapproval) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avitohol 0 Posted September 15, 2005 Another day with Kotooshus smart sumo. (Sign of approval) ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Buckton 1 Posted September 16, 2005 If he is even statistically in line for ozeki - his sumo will fail him this basho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Azumashida 1 Posted September 16, 2005 Yes, today he'll probably be in for "henka sightings". Or? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted September 16, 2005 If he is even statistically in line for ozeki - his sumo will fail him this basho. Indeed. This is really pathetic show... (Help me...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,185 Posted September 16, 2005 It might be pathetic or not, fact is that Futeno had no chance against him. At this rate I predict him to be Ozeki very fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted September 16, 2005 It might be pathetic or not, fact is that Futeno had no chance against him. At this rate I predict him to be Ozeki very fast. Fact? No Chance? Rate? Numbers again... what about Futenous chance against Asashoryu ?? Don't tell me that was lucky shot... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,185 Posted September 16, 2005 (edited) It might be pathetic or not, fact is that Futeno had no chance against him. At this rate I predict him to be Ozeki very fast.Fact? No Chance? Rate? Numbers again... what about Futenous chance against Asashoryu ?? Don't tell me that was lucky shot... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm, don't tell me about numbers, I have seen them before... in this bout today Futeno had really no chance after the tachiai or lack thereof. Watch Futeno's blog and you won't see any badmouthing of Kotooshu like here on this forum. Futeno just has to mind his way.Of course I'm not saying that Futeno has no chance in general against Kotooshu or anyone. Since you are so interested in numbers, here is my very personal number for Kotooshu's winning chance against Futeno (before the bout): 0.651. Edited September 16, 2005 by Doitsuyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites