Kashunowaka 300 Posted January 21, 2005 Have I not explained my opinion on this matter enough?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes you have, many times. (Shaking head...) But not all here are regulars and you write well, so it's fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,314 Posted January 22, 2005 Okay, this is rapidly becoming a moot point, but... M1e with 8 wins staying at M1eS1e with 7 wins going out of Sanyaku Last occurrence of Case 1 = 1969 Last occurrence of Case 2 = 1992 (there are only 2 cases of this, the other being in 1970) Banzuke from the 1992 case... Before and After. I think there were things then that we should look at here... Takahanada won the yusho from M2e and was promoted to S Akebono got the jun-yusho from K1w with 12-3, which is what Hakuho could end up with They DID go to 3 Komusubi with Mitoizumi getting 8-7 from M1e I'm sure there are things I haven't mentioned as well... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Examining the full sanyaku on the 2nd banzuke of the two.... The two Sekiwakes were SE Akebono (KW 12-3 Jun-Yusho) so cannot be deined a slot there. SW Takahanada (M2E 14-1 Yusho), and so also cannot be denied. The three komusubi were K1E Tochinowaka (KE 8-7), again cannot be denied. K1W Wakahanada (M1W 10-5), again difficult to deny. K2W Mitiozumi (M1E 8-7) is a more tricky one, but as the last time anyone had been denied a Komusubi slot with an 8-7 at M1E was nearly 25 years previously (and so probably had been forgotten - I'm sure they don't check the previous records), and so again they probably thought he couldn't be denied a slot. Meanwhile, the two Sekiwakes who had logged 7-8 records - and so would normally expect to be demoted to Komusubi, both got kicked out of Sanyaku. SE Kotonishiki got demoted to M1E, and SW Takatoriki got demoted to M2E! Musashimaru, who under other circumstances might have expected a komusubi slot himself after a 9-6 record at M3E was given the M1W slot. It is still my opinion that the sumo kyokai tries to limit the lower sanyaku ranks to just two apiece, unless it really can't be avoided... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyozakura 130 Posted January 22, 2005 Qttp: You wrote exactly the right thing. Chiyotaikai's bad results only started in July 2004, so this is only his fourth basho. I don't know if you ever had a long injury, but from my own experience I can tell you that there are injuries that can last longer than that. The bad pahse Taikai has now can be final but there have been a lot of examples of rikishi going through such a phase and coming back into form. Just to mention the Yokozuna: Musashimaru could not perform better than 9-6 in the first half of 1996. He later won 11 additional Yusho although he could not reach the standard he has upheld earlier in his career. Form July 1989 to March 1990 Asahifuji went not beyond 9-6. He won three more Yuho and promotion to Yokozuna afterwards although there was a drop in his performance at that time. From March 1986 to March 1987 Onokuni, with the exception of one 11-4 fell to mainly 9-6. Latrer he won two Yusho and promotion to Yokozuna In his first 12 (!) basho after Ozeki promotion Mienoumi achieved double digits only once, that being the basho where he regained his rank. Later he won two more Yusho and promotion to Yokozuna. I won't go farther back but even among the Yokozuna there will probably be more examples. 4 basho is not much in sumo and Chiyotaikai did not go 3-12. With better health he can go back to 10-5. His chance of making Yokozuna is probably gone for good but taking only the last 3 or 4 basho into consideration does not prove much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted January 22, 2005 What can I say, Chiyozakura? I hope that you are right and I am wrong. He did beat Sato today with a series of weak thrusts followed by Sato's trembling knees at the sole sight of Mr. Chubby. So unless he goes intai NOW, he's just surpassed Takanonami in the number of basho as an ozeki. And he did it all in one streak, never being demoted. Impressive. Not the kind of impressive I'd like to see, but nonetheless. As long as we're digging up stats - who are still in front of Taikai in "most basho as an ozeki"? P.S. If I see someone mentioining Raiden, I'm gonna hack the forum and stab you all in the face. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyozakura 130 Posted January 22, 2005 Konishiki at 39 basho, Hokutenyu at 44 and the first Takanohana at 50. They all had those basho consecutively with Hokutenyu and Takanohana retireing at Ozeki without being in danger of immediate demotion. So Chiyotaikai will have a long way to go if he wants to become no.1 in that category. In terms of Yusho Taikai has already surpassed those two, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
