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Otokonoyama

"Lard of the Rings"

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In my never-ending quest to search out and read information that shows sumo throught the eyes of neophytes and foreigners, I came across this one from earlier this month. As usual, some comic descriptions, some (?minor?) factual errors, but interesting to see what others think... (I am not worthy...)

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He he he good stuff, no doubt one of sumo's biggest turnoff's to foreigners is just that, maybe not so much the near nudity as it is the combination of their size (in many cases yes lard) and the skimpy loincloth, which produces a sight that can be somewhat less than pleasant to the "untrained" eye. As evidenced by the authors comments (Asashoryu at 309 one of the lighter weights! lol) and title of his article no doubt the huge mass of many of the sports competators can be to blame largely for its general lack of popularity outside of Japan (and inside as well as of late!). While initially even for myself this was something that generally just "turned me off", thanks to the heroics of such true lightweights as "mainoumi" "Terao" "kyokushuzan" (at least when he was younger.) and "wakanohana" I was able to see past the corpulence (in some cases sometimes pathetically so...) of many of the other "rikishi"and realize there was much more to the sport (technique and fighting spirit namely...) than meets the eye. Anywayzzz, cool post toko -

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hm, maybe this could also be an interesting article:

"Minister mocks Chirac over sumo

By Henry Samuel

(Filed: 17/01/2004)

The presidential ambitions of France's most popular minister threatened to spiral into a diplomatic incident yesterday over the Japanese sport of sumo.

Jacques Chirac is an avid fan of sumo and Japanese culture but Nicolas Sarkozy, the French interior minister, described the wrestling as "combat between fat guys with lacquered ponytails".

"It is hardly a sport for intellectuals," he added while on a visit to China.

M Sarkozy's words, reported in Paris Match, have been interpreted as the latest in a string of thinly veiled attacks on M Chirac, who he would like to replace as president in 2007.

One of the most prestigious sumo tournaments is taking place in Tokyo and M Chirac's fellow aficionados were quick to condemn M Sarkozy, who later denied the remarks.

"It shows a lack of consideration by the interior minister for Japanese culture," said a Franco-Japanese association based in Brittany.

"Sumo wrestlers are not obese, they often have 100kg of muscle," said Hiromi Houzel, a Japanese member.

A spokesman for Nihon Sumo Kyokai, Japan's national sumo association, said: "I suppose one would make that type of comment if one wanted to criticise President Chirac."

The Japanese took years to forgive Edith Cresson, France's outspoken former prime minister, who described them during an interview on American television in 1991 as "worker ants"."

Perhaps a step to far from Nicolas Sarkozy. I heare this comments on sumo very, very, very often but this guy has a high political function...

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"Pops," he asked, "are they going to have really fat butts?"

I'm removing my comment on this because the comment offended some other member and I have recieved an objection in PM.

No, I'm not removing because the comment was totally baseless. I could argue and defend my comment but that's hurtful.

Let's saya someone could state a fact that Mongolians are poor. It is true for the most part but it's hurtful to me.

Peace and my appologies.

Edited by MongolPower

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"Pops," he asked, "are they going to have really fat butts?"

No offence but I would think kids in US would be used to seeing "fat butts" everywhere. Fat butt should not be so shocking.  In US people are dying because they are fat and eating Big Mac. 

Japanese kids should be shocked to see those "fat butts" because generelly they are lean and small.

I live in the US and can assure you that "fat butts" are not everywhere.

People are not dying because they eat Big Macs and are fat. That's a stupid stereo-type.

The problem of overweight people is no worse in the US than it is anywhere else.

This is almost as bad a stereo-type as the people who say that rikishi are just a bunch of fat guys wearing diapers and shoving each other around. (Eh?)

Edited by Zentoryu

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The problem of overweight people is no worse in the US than it is anywhere else.

as takanohana used to say in his post-match interviews: "....................................."

And that's supposed to mean what?

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well much as i might agree with you about sterotypes and the "fat butts" thing in mongol pwers post, you are not seriously saying that the usa has the same level of obesity as other countries are you.

far from being a sterotype it is an established fact that (currently) over 30% of the male population and almost 40% of the female population in the united sates are obsese

other western countries are increasing in size as well but the us is far ahead in this respect.  compare that to japan when less than 6% of men and 3% of women fit into the category and you see why the image exists.

this is no attack or insult on anybody. its simple medical fact. its hardly news either.

I agree with Nishi on this totally. Having lived in the US, and now being in Asian, I can assure you that the US is definitely fatter on average.

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well much as i might agree with you about sterotypes and the "fat butts" thing in mongol pwers post, you are not seriously saying that the usa has the same level of obesity as other countries are you.

far from being a sterotype it is an established fact that (currently) over 30% of the male population and almost 40% of the female population in the united sates are obsese

No I'm not saying that at all. My post was a knee jerk reaction and perhaps I shouldn't have added that part. I have a tendancy to make posts before I fully think them through and this was one of them. Often I delete or edit them after I've had a chance to calm down and think about what I just wrote. You caught this one before I had a chance to do so. For that I apologize.

I think part of the numbers above might have a lot to do with kids who are overeating. I know there is obesity problems in schools.

Of all the people I know in my life right now (family, friends and co-workers) and associate with, maybe one of them is what you can call Obese or fat. Which is probably why I reacted the way I did.

Edited by Zentoryu

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Such topics. I'd be quite happy to take the entire forum out for a nice PT (physical training) session to show how fat we Americans are. I'd guess that very few would be able to keep up with this "overweight" (but far from obese at 12% body fat (Eh?) ) American. You see...the statistics would say that I, and many Americans like me, are overweight. Sure we have a large percentage of people who are overfat, but not nearly as much as the statistics would show. With the excess leisure time our society provides, comes extremes. Some choose to sit in front of the television and eat doughnuts. Others use the extra time to condition their bodies....

Peace :-S

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i'll take you up on that PT session only if it involves 12 pints of guinness before hand

(Oops! ) another messy sterotype

We have regular "Hash-house" runs here. It seems I'm also a proud member of a club (the Hash House Harriers) who consider themselves "drinkers with a running problem". Next time you're in the middle of nowhere in West Texas, look me up and we'll share that beer. Except, I'm a lightweight and only drink beer you can see through. (Eh?)

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i'll take you up on that PT session only if it involves 12 pints of guinness before hand

(Oops! ) another messy sterotype

i'll take you up on that PT session only if it involves 12 pints of guinness before hand

(Oops! ) another messy sterotype

We have regular "Hash-house" runs here. It seems I'm also a proud member of a club (the Hash House Harriers) who consider themselves "drinkers with a running problem". Next time you're in the middle of nowhere in West Texas, look me up and we'll share that beer. Except, I'm a lightweight and only drink beer you can see through. :-S

Contrary to what one might think, Guinness is actually lower in calories than many other beers, and many other non-alcoholic beverages. I think the use of natural ingredients (as opposed to corn syrup and other fillers to cut costs) helps...

See Guinness Facts & RealBeer.com. (Eh?)

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No offence but I would think kids in US would be used to seeing "fat butts" everywhere. Fat butt should not be so shocking.  In US people are dying because they are fat and eating Big Mac. 

I live in the US and can assure you that "fat butts" are not everywhere.

The problem of overweight people is no worse in the US than it is anywhere else.

while it is true that not all americans are fat, it is a proven fact that over 50 % of all americans have a body mass index of over 25.

i have been to the USA, and there are a LOT more really fat people than in europe.

there are also a lot more obese people.

mostly this is due to bad eating habits: lots of sugar and fat, with little veggies.

i once saw a documentary about american obesity, and there were 14 year old girls that had never eaten a tomato or brocolli for example. they considered ketchup a vegetable.

apart from that: you cannot expect to take in 5000 calories a day and stay in shape, unless you do extreme physical workout.

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fat americans.

well, being a "fat american" myself, I can honestly say, that where I come from, there are a LOT of fat people.

I am reading an article in National Geographic...it says that the percentage of obese americans is up to 30.9 percent. I believe it. In my travels, I have noticed, though, that there are differences by area. In some areas, a sizeable majority of the people are seriously overweight, or obese. In other areas, people who are overweight are rare.

when i was a kid, we used to drink a 8 ounce bottle of coke, maybe once a week. nowadays, there is a vending machine on every corner, and they all only have 20 ounce bottles, and people drink them like water. Literally.

Just before I came to JP for the holidays, there was big news about Hardees offering a new hamburger that had over 1400 calories. It was turning out to be the most popular menu item they had. 1400 calories??? Toss in a supersize fries, and a supersize Coke with that, and you have over 3000 calories in one convenient meal. Good grief. That`s crazy.

At the same time, there is a massive decline in the level of physical activity. It really seems like there is an actual aversion to anything physical at all. I have actually heard people talk about it like that. as in "What? Physical labor? are you kidding, what do you think I am???" as if any type of physical activity is a bad thing. I have honestly witnessed people getting in their cars and driving to their suburban mailboxes, to pick up their mail, rather than walk the 60 feet. that is just pathetic. but the sensibility is there, that affluence deserves it, or something. Physical activity is for "lower" people, who are not American. (Okay, sorry, maybe that was, unnecessary, over the line, and probably not a very nice thing to say, but...I`m not going to edit it out)

In my hometown, a very common midwestern place, there are an awful lot of obese kids. I mean, a LOT. All of them have Playstations, or X boxes. All of them have cable tv. All of them have a 12 pack of soda in the fridge at all times. all of them have a favorite sauce for their chicken mcnuggets.

None of them have bicycles. None of them can run a single kilometer.

an astonishing majority of them have diabetes.

did you know that between 1980 and 2004 the number of people in the us with diabetes went from 5.8 million to 17.5 million?

that the percentage of obese children in the US went from under 5, to over 15 in the same period?

Fat men in diapers huh?

In another 10 years, sumo wrestlers will look like lean, mean fighting machines compared to the population of the US

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Iwagakki, sir--excellent post!!

One thing though- there are two types of diabetes, Type 1 (Juvenile, insulin dependent)) and type 2. Obesity and eating habits have nothing whatsoever to do with Type 1. Nobody really knows what causes it. Type 2 is an entirely different story-usually hits adults with heavy suger intake etc.

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At the same time, there is a massive decline in the level of physical activity.  It really seems like there is an actual aversion to anything physical at all.  I have actually heard people talk about it like that.  as in  "What?  Physical labor?  are you kidding, what do you think I am???"  as if any type of physical activity is a bad thing.  I have honestly witnessed people getting in their cars and driving to their suburban mailboxes, to pick up their mail, rather than walk the 60 feet.  that is just pathetic.  but the sensibility is there, that affluence deserves it, or something.  Physical activity is for "lower" people, who are not American.  (Okay, sorry, maybe that was, unnecessary,  over the line, and probably not a very nice thing to say, but...I`m not going to edit it out) 

Very interesting - I thought obesity was more of a problem among lower-class, uneducated Americans. Isn't that so?

No need to edit out anything - good post.

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Sounds really interesting from the politological point of view. There they are, fat, obese Americans - gargantuan kids that don't do anything but Xbox and PlayStation and can't run a single mile, Big Bob teenagers with 5000 calory hamburgers on their lunch menu, Office workers never even caring to lift their bottom from the extra-sized chair on wheels they have - this is the image.

I find it really amusing. And even though in the bottom of my heart this is what i think, or, at least, this is what I want to think, it doesn't stop amusing me.

To me, a perfect parallel is all the people (and the rikishi, too) laughing at Asashoryu Akinori's manners, and the despising the way he is. However you put it, he's the man of the house now.

Well you might argue that rikishi don't really dislike the E.Yokozuna - that is not true. They do, it's just they don't express it in public / in sources near to it. They do.

Edited by Svanidze

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  In other areas, people who are overweight are rare. 

I must live in one of those areas.

Sheesh, you type one line without really thinking about it and look what happens. All heck breaks loose. ;-)

Edited by Zentoryu

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Speaking about US is quite strange in a way because it is so extraordinary melting pot and it has all the extremes in the world. Same goes for this fat-discussion. While it is undoubtedly true that American consume stunning amounts of high calory fast food and overeat in general, Americans also are the health freaks of the world with vast amount of people who count every calory they take and who exercise meticulously and worship sculpturous physique which requires spartan self-discipline.

Regardless of the nationality, the increase of obesity is often linked to decrease of calory burn in every day life. 5km walk is considered LONG and troublesome by many, the thought of walking the stairs to 5th floor makes many laugh in disbelief and kids are put to busses when they have 5km to school. That is insane in my opinion especially when kids are taught this kind of life style early on. Computers, Playstations etc. are to blame partly on this as nowadays less kids go outside and move their still fatless asses there. Then you add the parents' unhealthy eating habits and a combination is sure to bring up fat kids who then get into vicious circle of getting fat, feeling out of shape, hating any kind of exercise, getting more fat etc. So the proportion of overweight children is good measure of where the nation's weight trend is going. Most fats kids become fat adults.

Adults are different matter as they make their own decisions on what to eat, when to eat and how much they want to sit around doing nothing and how fast they want to develop beer belly etc. Many are busy with setting up families, with long hours at work in office and many have bad genes in weight gaining perspective and being an overweight adult isn't a mortal sin.

5 year old doesn't stop eating candy thinking "Oh I shouldn't eat this much unhealthy stuff..." or 10 year old dosn't stop sitting at the computer thinking "Oh I get weak back and I gain weight and will soon get into vicious circle if I don't cut back this curved back+coke+computer/Playstation lifestyle...". There one needs some intervention. Another thing is that who thought of the brilliant idea of selling candy, chocolade and stuff like that in schools?? Biggest mystery of all. The time kids spend at school and eat at school gives at least some kind of opportunity to serve some healthy food to them. But then there started to emerge these snack sale points at schools and many kids skip the meal at school and eat that fast food-associated calory bombs. Idiots (not the kids). No idea how this is in US but in Finland there are schools where kids can buy buns, chocolade, soda drinks, candy etc. and many then skip the real meal. Maybe somewhere there is a lovely blueprint already for opening a fast food place at the school so kids can have more delicious fast food every day ;-)

Edited by Kaikitsune Makoto

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In US people are dying because they are fat and eating Big Mac.

I couldn't resist this comment. I don't know how big are Big Macs in the US, but here in Israel the so-called "Big Macs" are AWFULLY SMALL. I went to McDonalds with my friend the other day.

Now my friend is normally a vegetarian, i.e. he doesn't eat meat, but his dad sometimes makes him eat some meat, and he doesn't mind every once in a while. But he does it rarely, and since his not a regular at McDonalds, he doesn't know the different types of burgers they serve, so he asked me for advice.

Now, I'm saying to him - "Since you don't really like this food, perhaps you should order something not too big, but since he is the "constantly hungry" type, or at least the "constantly complaining about how hungry he is" type, probably not too small too. So I thought that a "Big Mac" meal with potato chips and Coke would be good, because I remembered that Big Macs are small. But, maaaaaan, I forgot HOW small. It was almost embrassing looking at it!

For the record, I had a McRoyal meal (quarter-pounder they call it in the US, or something similar, no?) I normally have no problems finishing this one off (a Double McRoyal is a different story, I usually get full about 2/3 through).

Luckily, the potato chips and coke were enough to fill my "constantly hungry" friend, even despite the small size of the burger, but afterwards he said: "That's it, next time I'm forced to eat here, I'm ordering a Double!" I warned him that, based on my personal experience (see above), it might be too much for him - he's constantly hungry, but he's really skinny (i.e. the opposite of me). He said "Just wait and see".

To be continued (probably much later, as he's headed towards bootcamp now).

Conclusion:

DOWN WITH "BIG"-Macs!

P.S. This cursor bug of Firefox where it hides parts of the neighboring characters really pisses me off. Basically it's the only turnoff I have with this browser now.

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in the US a big mac has about 600 calories, and contains about 30 grams of fat.

I did some further reading on the subject, and found that the latest statistics say that more than 60 percent of Americans fall into either the "overweight", "obese" or "morbidly obese" categories.

the percentage of children who are considered obese has tripled in the past 10 years, from 5 to 15. the percentage of children who are considered overweight has also tripled, to over and additional 20 percent. that means that more than one out of three children in the US is either overweight or obese. and 2 out of 3 americans in total are overweight or obese. WOW.

This is impressive. It has become so much of a "norm" in the US for the people to be overweight, that someone who is an "appropriate" weight for their height looks like they are "too thin" or unhealthy to the average american.

I think a lot of americans are in complete denial. "no, I`m not FAT, exactly...I am just big boned!!!" haha. ever hear that one?

I have. Members of my family are huge. People I see every day, are HUGE. But in the context of daily life, they are "average" They are no bigger, or fatter than the next guy (or girl). In fact, the people who are not heavy, they are the freaks it seems. The vocal majority of these fat people have made it unacceptable to be a healthy weight, and so on.

I mean, I am not exactly a bag of bones. In fact, by most BMI Indicators, I am overweight. however. because my fat percentage is low, even though I am quite large, I am often told that I look like I am sick, or that I look like "death warmed over" or that I have "sunken hollow cheeks" by my more "normal" friends and family.

Face it, the US is a nation of suckers. we have been suckered into thinking Coke is good for us, and McDonalds is honest food. And Ben and Jerry`s Triple Diabetic Coma ice cream is a tasty dairy product. And the bun on a Burger King Double Whopper is a serving from the Grains and Cereals food group. The pickles constitute a serving of vegetables too.

I don`t care what anyone says. Fried Chicken is not good for you. neither is whole milk. Neither is Beef. Neither is Mountain Dew. Neither are French fries(or is that "freedom Fries" still? hahah) Or Pizza.

But, since fried chicken and whole milk and Mountain dew all have billion dollar marketing budgets with which to ram more of that crap down our throats, maybe we are just the willing and brand identified victims of these mega faceless companies that are using our own grotesque appetites against us.

Of all the stupid ways for a civilization to go down the tubes....

We are using our own taste buds and craving for more to make the ropes we hang ourselves with.

ick.

Okay, rant over.

How is everyone?

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How is everyone?

Fine, thank you. How are you?

Neither are French fries(or is that "freedom Fries" still? hahah)

No, just "fries". I wonder who the idiot who attached the "French" to them in the first place is.

I don`t care what anyone says. Fried Chicken is not good for you. neither is whole milk. Neither is Beef. Neither is Mountain Dew. Neither are French fries(or is that "freedom Fries" still? hahah) Or Pizza.

I don't think anyone actually says any of those things are good for you. Have you heard anyone ever say that Coke is healthy? I haven't. It's just that most people don't consider them unhealthy enough to stop consuming them. In any case, it's all about quantities and balance. It's possible to consume all of these things and still be healthy, if you don't eat too much of it, if you don't eat just it and if you balance it out with the proper physical activities that you should do anyway.

But, since fried chicken and whole milk and Mountain dew all have billion dollar marketing budgets with which to ram more of that crap down our throats, maybe we are just the willing and brand identified victims of these mega faceless companies that are using our own grotesque appetites against us.

I don't think it's just the marketing. Most of the people will find some of these things quite tasty. I, for example, like pizza and burgers and, well, I absolutely LOVE fries, as I love everything that is potato-related. But I don't like fried chicken, for example, so no billion dollar marketing will make me eat that.

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...It has become so much of a "norm" in the US for the people to be overweight, that someone who is an "appropriate" weight for their height looks like they are "too thin" or unhealthy to the average american...

Interesting...when I moved to Japan, I lost almost 10 kg in 6 months. I took no special steps to diet, watch what I ate, or exercise. Just that the local diet was much healthier that what I was used to. And the portions were smaller. I remember being hungry soon after meals for the first 2-3 months. When I went home for a visit, a lot of poeple asked if I was sick. I've maintained the lower weight for nearly six years, with no effort. In fact, I think I drink more beer and sake than I did back in Canada. I went to Hawaii for six months in the middle of my time here in Japan, and promptly regained the 10 kg. When the vacation was over, I returned to Japan and my lower weight. I find that on vacations (Hawaii, Canada, mainland USA, Germany) I often can't finish meals in restaurants.

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Guest Vincentoryu
For the record, I had a McRoyal meal (quarter-pounder they call it in the US, or something similar, no?) I normally have no problems finishing this one off (a Double McRoyal is a different story, I usually get full about 2/3 through).

Sorry guys and galls, but I couln't resist this tasty temptation

(From Pulp Fiction)

VINCENT: In Paris, you can buy beer at MacDonald's. Also, you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?

JULES: They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with Cheese?

VINCENT: No, they got the metric system there, they wouldn't know what the fuck a Quarter Pounder is.

JULES: What'd they call it?

VINCENT: Royale with Cheese.

JULES: (repeating) Royale with Cheese. What'd they call a Big Mac?

VINCENT: Big Mac's a Big Mac, but they call it Le Big Mac.

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