BasketBRAWL

[Kishinoyama 625]

For those of you who might have missed it in NBA action last night (I saw the hi-lights... I mean Low-lights), the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons played in Detroit and the game was finally called with 45 seconds still left in the game. I fight occurred on the court between two players and then the benches cleared. Things seemed to have calmed down. Ron Artest, a Pacer player, was lying down on the scoring table when a fan threw a plastic cup of beer that landed on him. He went up into the stands and hit one fan, who was not the person that threw the cup, and then another Pacer was there doing the same thing. Throwing punches having fans throwing punches at them. Once Artest made his way back courtside, a fan confronted him on the court(!) and punches were thrown on both sides. Once they were separated, another Pacer blind-sided the same fan. Finally the Pacewrs left the court under a shower of beer, popcorn and even one thrown (!) chair.

I am sure I might have left something out of this... but here is what I think.

First, I am not a fan of the NBA. Since some guy named Jordan left the Bulls, I have not watched it at all. What the first fan did with the cup of beer was a disgrace. But when the 2 Pacer players went into the stands then that, to me, is worse! The Fan who came on the court and confronted Artest got what he deserved. He was stupid. The fans are at fault here but the thing that got me angry was how the ESPN NBA halftime crew seemed to be blaming ONLY the fans! What about the players? There are going to be big fines and big suspensions over this along with lots of lawsuits. A few of the players in the NBA act like thugs and unfortunately some of the fans seem to be no different.

Edited November 20, 2004 by Whitney

[Naifuzan 1]

That's the sort of thing that makes picking up your kensho money with the left hand seem like a pretty small deal ;-)

[Kishinoyama 625]

That's the sort of thing that makes picking up your kensho money with the left hand seem like a pretty small deal :-P

Also gives me more reasons not to watch the NBA. ;-)

[Asashosakari 20,272]

That's the sort of thing that makes picking up your kensho money with the left hand seem like a pretty small deal :-O

Just wait until Uchidate has enough of that and tries to come down to punch Asashoryu. :-D Maybe there's a reason women aren't allowed to step on the dohyo after all. :-P

[Mark Buckton 1]

with many of these overpaid 'stars' sporting an IQ comparable to their shirt number just what do we expect of them? - I'm sure the lawyers are salivating over this one. :-O

[Kishinoyama 625]

Just wait until Uchidate has enough of that and tries to come down to punch Asashoryu. :-O Maybe there's a reason women aren't allowed to step on the dohyo after all. :-P

:-) So now I know the real reason women are not allowed on the dohyo! Thank you for the insight. :-D

[Kishinoyama 625]

with many of these overpaid 'stars' sporting an IQ comparable to their shirt number just what do we expect of them? - I'm sure the lawyers are salivating over this one. :-O

Yea the lawyers are gonna get their share. The word 'star' is so over-used when it comes to athletes. To me in a lot of cases, star = thug. :-D

[Asashosakari 20,272]

If anyone's looking for video of the whole kerfuffle, The Daily Recycler has it.

[Kishinoyama 625]

If anyone's looking for video of the whole kerfuffle, The Daily Recycler has it.

That clip is a pretty good representation of what happened. It is missing Artest punching the one fan with the Detroit jersey on and the other player blind-siding him as well. Other than that... the "low-lights" are their for the viewing :-O . Their were multiple camera angles so their is a lot of tape to be reviewed... :-D

[Zentoryu 154]

Gotta love Ben Wallace's response to the whole incident:

"I didn't start it. I just play the game." :-O

Moron. :-D

[Kishinoyama 625]

Gotta love Ben Wallace's response to the whole incident:

"I didn't start it. I just play the game." :-O

Moron. :-D

I can't believe he said that..... Moron is a good word... I can think of a few others as well (Censored)

[Sasanishiki 57]

Actually, it is not just confined to basketball. A similar thing (actually a couple of incidents in recent years) have occurred in baseball as well. One guy threw a chair into the stands at a fan and it hit awoman. Was near the end of the season. Can't remember who or where, but I'm sure someone hereknows what I'm talking about.

Big money, big egos and can't turn the other cheek. On a level that they can understand, don't the players realise they are opening themselves up to be sued by picking on the wrong person, not to mention the danger to their product endorsements? If we see the big bucks as part of the problem, then at least shouldn't the reasoning to the players to cut out this sort of behaviour be couched in terms that they care about?

However, no true fan should be throwing things at players, even if it is the ther team.

[Zentoryu 154]

Well the NBA announced the punishments for the players.

Ron Artest is suspended for the rest of the season (guess he finally gets that time off he asked for last month, Moron)

Jackson gets suspended for 30 games and O'Neal for 25. Wallace is out for 6 games.

Indiana's season is pretty much over now, as they loose their three best players for significant periods of time. All because these guys acted like a bunch of immature idiots.

All the suspensions are without pay, so the players stand to lose millions of dollars in salary.

Not sure about any legal action being taken against the players, but apparently Detroit police are looking into pressing charges against the fans that became involved in the incident.

Edited November 22, 2004 by Zentoryu

[Sasanishiki 57]

I wonder if the players can sue the fans for loss of income? Not that the fans probably have any money (at least compared to the players), although you never know.

[Kishinoyama 625]

Well the NBA announced the punishments for the players.

Ron Artest is suspended for the rest of the season (guess he finally gets that time off he asked for last month, Moron)

Jackson gets suspended for 30 games and O'Neal for 25. Wallace is out for 6 games.

Indiana's season is pretty much over now, as they loose their three best players for significant periods of time. All because these guys acted like a bunch of immature idiots.

All the suspensions are without pay, so the players stand to lose millions of dollars in salary.

Not sure about any legal action being taken against the players, but apparently Detroit police are looking into pressing charges against the fans that became involved in the incident.

I swear it almost makes me think Artest planned it that way. It is such a coincidence that he wanted to promote the CD and then a week, less than two weeks later... he is suspended.... things that make you go hmmmmm.... :-) I hope the fans that were involved do get charged. They deserve it for just being stupid. Both sides acted like thugs or little 2 year old kids. I really hope this punishment for the players will scare the hell out of the other players. I can tell you one thing. I was not watching before this happened and I won't be watching after it is all finally done. (Bye, bye...)

[Kishinoyama 625]

I wonder if the players can sue the fans for loss of income? Not that the fans probably have any money (at least compared to the players), although you never know.

I would think they can and I would not be surprised if they do. I can't see them getting money from people that don't have deep pockets.... The players are gonna be busy trying to defend themselves with all of the lawsuits that will be filed against them. Criminal and Civil Charges.... (Bye, bye...) The lawyers are drooling already. >:-)

[Guest MGLSekitori]

It was crazy!

[Kintamayama 47,299]

I don't agree with most of the posts here. Surely no one believes Artest did this on purpose. It all started with a normal foul by Artest. Ben Wallace over-reacted (to say the least). He should have been thrown out of the game at this second. He's the cause of the rucus. Then, Artest lay down on a table, and was hit by a bottle in the head thrown at him point blank by a Detroit fan. No argument about these facts.. That caused him to snap and go for the guy who did it. There is only just so much anyone can take. So he hit the stands. That's wrong for sure, but a whole season suspension??? Get real. It's not like a guy was taunting him in the stands and he reacted, ala Cantona way back when. He was physically attacked, plastic bottle or not. I would make Detroit play 10 crowdless home games for a start, as the safety of visiting teams should be assured by home stadium security or whatever. This happened on Detroit turf, instigated by a Detroit player, and a Detroit fan gone berserk. The rest, as ugly as it was, was a response. Basketball players are not Ghandi. Artest should be treated severely, given his past etc.. , but this?

Now, as panic sets in, the NBA is thinking of prohibiting alcohol sales at games. Next spectators will have to furnish a health certificate, a form acknowledging you have no criminal past, and that you are kind to animals at all times.

In these times, they need to decide stuff with a cool head. Going after Artest is the easiest thing.

This whole thing is sooooo familiar from everyday life somewhere, but we won't get into that, shall we??

Edited November 22, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Zentoryu 154]

I agree with Kinta to a certain extent. If Ben Wallace doesn't over-react to a rather innocent looking foul, none of this happens. These guys have got to learn to start using the brains that God gave them.

Detroit as an organization needs to be taken to task for the failure of it's arena security to protect the players. The Detroit fans (particularly the guy who threw the bottle at

Artest and the fat guy who ran out onto the court) who precipitated the incident need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in order to send a message to all fans across the country that behaviour like this is absolutely unacceptable.

The NHL has glass boards seperating it's players from the fans sitting behind them for a reason, and it's not just to prevent the pucks from flying into the stands. Hopefully the same thing doesn't end up happening in the NBA.

[Sasanishiki 57]

I agree with Kinta. Thee is no way this is planned. Just look at Artest's history of flying off the handle. He has a realtively short fuse, I think, or at least he solves these kinds of problems with his fists. I believe he had a right to be very angry at what happened, and in doing so he blew up. However, what he did is SO unacceptable. Quite apart from being a role model Blah blah blah, the guy has got 4 kids. What sort of example is that to his own family. He has repeatedly talked about the desire to spend time with his kids etc and then does soemthing like this to make himself look like a complete fool.

I think the rest of the season is harsh in some respects, even though I think what he did was terrible. He got more than Sprewell did for choking a guy! At least there was provocation on this occassion. I think he should have been suspended and fined big time as well as having to go through anger management or something.

I now wonder if he'll ever play again. In the wake of asking for that time off earlier in the month he was saying that he wasn't too sure how long he would keep playing. Now this might make him think that it's not worth it. I guess the idea of clearing his name and regaining some sort of honour in the fans' minds, as well as a championship, might be reasons to continue. I see him perhaps just moving into his music interests and brooding about the basketball side of his life and how he was wronged by everyone (fans, NBA, team) and misunderstood.

[Kishinoyama 625]

He got more than Sprewell did for choking a guy! At least there was provocation on this occassion. I think he should have been suspended and fined big time as well as having to go through anger management or something.

Yes he did and the sad part was the guy Sprewell choked was his own coach! How he did not get more punishment than he actually did, is beyond belief. (Applauding...) As for the actions of Artest... he was not in any life-threatening danger. It was a plastic cup of beer that landed on his chest. He then goes up in the stands and hits a fan who did not even throw the cup. It is true that Ben Wallace started the fight but why was Artest fouling him when they are up by 15 points with 45 seconds left? Trust me, the fans that threw punches will be singled out and I believe charged along with the players. The fans that were on the court should not have been there and they paid the price. I don't feel any remorse for them. Their is enough blame to go around and hopefully the numerous video tapes, will take care of all of the idiots, players or fans, and put some legal teeth behind the blame. The suspensions are being appealed but I hope they stand. Players should never go in the stands and fans should never go on the court.

Edited November 22, 2004 by Whitney

[Kintamayama 47,299]

As for the actions of Artest... he was not in any life-threatening danger. It was a plastic cup of beer that landed on his chest. He then goes up in the stands and hits a fan who did not even throw the cup.

Not relevant. He was physically attacked. It could have been glass, the cup. First and foremost , Detroit as an organization should be severely punished for not taking care of

security. As for the foul 45 seconds before the end of the game, that's part of the game. I can't believe anyone can think otherwise. What Ben Wallace did was totally not part of the game in any aspect.

The rest can be argued till we turn blue in the face..

I won't..

[Itachi 396]

I like Kinta's idea about having Detroit play home games without a home crowd.

Did you hear Barkley's comments on the matter? He said something to the effect that any player being attacked by a fan is right to beat them down. I would prefer to see more gentlemanly behaviour on the part of all involved but it is hard to feel sorry for fans who rushed onto the floor to get clocked by various Pacers.

Artest is shaping up like Rodman - inadequate self control and a mean streak. Remember the groin kicking episode? If Mr. Artest continues to appear a loose cannon, people will continue to provoke him. It is probably for the best that he take a good long time out. It's a shame because his intensity on the court is really enjoyable to me. It can be a good play to ajitate opposing players. Wallace was so upset, it may have thrown him off his game the next time they played. Now they may not ever play against each other again. Pity.

[Iwagakki 0]

The only thing worse than a bunch of irresponsible, spoiled rotten thugs, who are paid such an absurd amount of money to do something that ultimately, contributes so little to society, is a bunch of maniacal, and violent fans who take it so personally that they are willing to hurt anyone who doesn't conform to their psychotic ideas.

And the only thing that is worse than a bunch of maniacal, and violent fans who take it so personally that they are willing to hurt anyone who doesn't conform to their psychotic ideas, is a bunch of irresponsible, spoiled rotten thugs who are paid such an absurd amount of money to do something that ultimately, contributes so little to society.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

don't you see the same thing in ice hockey every week with no fuss

The '70s were the worst...culminated in the spoof movie Slapshot.

Fighting is more a part of the sport of ice hockey than many other pro sports. Players generally receive only a 5-minute 'major penalty' for fighting. So-called "enforcers" are regularly drafted and traded in the NHL. Fighting's an accepted part of the game, but has been 'cleaned up' in recent years. Still, various scars and gap-toothed smiles are worn as badges of honour in Canada.

A few stick-swinging incidents of late have really been over-the-top and have turned-off a lot of fans. Even criminal charges. Beyond stupid >:-P