Doitsuyama 1,173 Posted November 18, 2004 The number of Makuuchi leaders shrinked to two as only Asashoryu and Kotonowaka won today. Hakuho lost to Sekiwake Wakanosato while Roho and Kasugao lost to Hokutoriki and Futeno. The Ozeki confirmed their trends today which is upward for Kaio and pointing down for Tochiazuma and Chiyotaikai. All four lower Sanyaku won today, also showing a new trend of relatively stable lower Sanyaku rikishi. The Juryo yusho still is totally open as their are only three rikishi (Otsukasa, Bushuyama and Hamanishiki) NOT within two of the lead. As here are no kyujo this means 25 rikishi in the yusho race... Toyonoshima, Kitazakura and Daishodai cooled off after a good start while Kotoshogiku now has won four straight after his opening loss. -- Doitsuyama Day 5 Juryo J14e Kotokasuga (3-2) okuridashi J13e Toyonokuni (2-3) J13w Ishide (4-1) uwatenage J12w Hakurozan (2-3) J12e Tamaasuka (3-2) oshidashi J10e Wakatoba (3-2) J9w Wakakirin (2-3) oshidashi J11w Ushiomaru (2-3) J8w Kaido (2-3) oshidashi J14w Hamanishiki (0-5) J7w Kinkaiyama (4-1) yorikiri J11e Katayama (2-3) J7e Wakanoyama (3-2) yorikiri J10w Chiyotenzan (2-3) J5w Yotsukasa (2-3) hikiotoshi J8e Bushuyama (1-4) J5e Harunoyama (4-1) yorikiri J9e Kasuganishiki (3-2) J3w Kotoshogiku (4-1) oshidashi J6w Asanowaka (2-3) J2w Gojoro (4-1) oshidashi J6e Daishodai (2-3) J2e Aminishiki (3-2) okuridashi J4w Otsukasa (1-4) J1w Tochisakae (3-2) uwatenage J3e Kitazakura (3-2) J4e Kobo (2-3) shitatenage J1e Toyonoshima (2-3) Makuuchi M16w Kisenosato (3-2) okuridashi M15w Tokitenku (2-3) M16e Futeno (3-2) yorikiri M15e Kasugao (4-1) M17e Toki (1-4) oshidashi M14e Tokitsuumi (3-2) M14w Ama (3-2) yorikiri M13w Tamakasuga (1-4) M13e Kaiho (4-1) okuridashi M11e Hayateumi (3-2) M10w Kotooshu (3-2) yorikiri M12e Takanowaka (2-3) M10e Asasekiryu (2-3) yorikiri M12w Takanotsuru (0-5) M11w Hokutoriki (3-2) oshidashi M9w Roho (4-1) M9e Kotoryu (3-2) yorikiri M7e Jumonji (1-4) M8w Buyuzan (2-3) oshitaoshi M6w Takekaze (1-4) M6e Tosanoumi (3-2) oshidashi M8e Toyozakura (2-3) M7w Takamisakari (3-2) hikiotoshi M5e Shimotori (2-3) M5w Kotonowaka (5-0) oshidashi M4w Kyokushuzan (1-4) K1e Kotomitsuki (3-2) uwatedashinage M3w Kyokutenho (1-4) S1w Miyabiyama (3-2) hatakikomi M2w Kokkai (2-3) S1e Wakanosato (4-1) tsukiotoshi M1w Hakuho (4-1) M3e Iwakiyama (3-2) oshidashi O2w Tochiazuma (3-2) K1w Tochinonada (2-3) yorikiri O1w Chiyotaikai (2-3) O1e Kaio (4-1) oshidashi M2e Kakizoe (0-5) Y1e Asashoryu (5-0) yorikiri M4e Tamanoshima (3-2) Day 6 Makushita Ms16e Kaishoryu (2-0) Ms19e Wakainami (2-0) Ms13e Ryuho (1-1) Ms14w Tamamitsukuni (1-1) Ms12e Wakakosho (2-0) Ms15e Fukkoyama (2-0) Ms11e Kotokanyu (2-0) Ms8w Kanbayashi (2-0) Ms7e Kotokuni (1-1) Ms9w Koryu (1-1) Juryo J11e Katayama (2-3) J12e Tamaasuka (3-2) J13e Toyonokuni (2-3) J11w Ushiomaru (2-3) J10e Wakatoba (3-2) J14e Kotokasuga (3-2) J14w Hamanishiki (0-5) J10w Chiyotenzan (2-3) J8e Bushuyama (1-4) J13w Ishide (4-1) J7e Wakanoyama (3-2) J12w Hakurozan (2-3) J9w Wakakirin (2-3) J7w Kinkaiyama (4-1) J4e Kobo (2-3) J9e Kasuganishiki (3-2) J3e Kitazakura (3-2) J8w Kaido (2-3) J4w Otsukasa (1-4) J3w Kotoshogiku (4-1) J2e Aminishiki (3-2) J6e Daishodai (2-3) J6w Asanowaka (2-3) J2w Gojoro (4-1) J1e Toyonoshima (2-3) J5w Yotsukasa (2-3) J5e Harunoyama (4-1) J1w Tochisakae (3-2) Makuuchi M14e Tokitsuumi (3-2) M14w Ama (3-2) M13e Kaiho (4-1) M16w Kisenosato (3-2) M12e Takanowaka (2-3) M16e Futeno (3-2) M11e Hayateumi (3-2) M17e Toki (1-4) M15e Kasugao (4-1) M11w Hokutoriki (3-2) M9e Kotoryu (3-2) M13w Tamakasuga (1-4) M8e Toyozakura (2-3) M12w Takanotsuru (0-5) M15w Tokitenku (2-3) M8w Buyuzan (2-3) M10e Asasekiryu (2-3) M7w Takamisakari (3-2) M6e Tosanoumi (3-2) M9w Roho (4-1) M10w Kotooshu (3-2) M6w Takekaze (1-4) M7e Jumonji (1-4) M5w Kotonowaka (5-0) M5e Shimotori (2-3) M1w Hakuho (4-1) M2e Kakizoe (0-5) K1w Tochinonada (2-3) S1e Wakanosato (4-1) M4w Kyokushuzan (1-4) M4e Tamanoshima (3-2) S1w Miyabiyama (3-2) O1e Kaio (4-1) M2w Kokkai (2-3) K1e Kotomitsuki (3-2) O2w Tochiazuma (3-2) M3e Iwakiyama (3-2) O1w Chiyotaikai (2-3) Y1e Asashoryu (5-0) M3w Kyokutenho (1-4) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted November 18, 2004 The number of Makuuchi leaders shrinked to two as only Asashoryu and Kotonowaka won today. M5w Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted November 18, 2004 The number of Makuuchi leaders shrinked to two as only Asashoryu and Kotonowaka won today. M5w Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted November 18, 2004 He made is Makunouchi debut 1990.11 and has spent every basho but one in Makunouchi since then, which means he has had 83 consecutive and 84 total Makunouchi tournaments. In other words he would need another 14 to break Takamiyama's record of 97. Personally I think he could do it if it wasn't for him taking over Sadogatake-beya at latest after next Kyushu basho, when Sadogatake turns 65. It would be a shame if he had a chance to break this record and he retires to take over Sadogatake-beya. Is it possible to be an active rikishi and an Oyakata? I know years and years ago it was possible..... but no more? :-D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) It would be a shame if he had a chance to break this record and he retires to take over Sadogatake-beya. Is it possible to be an active rikishi and an Oyakata? I know years and years ago it was possible..... but no more? Edited November 18, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) It could possible that one of the oyakatas in Sadogatake becomes the in-between Sadogatake-oyakata for a couple of years though. I am hoping for the in-between Sadogatake-oyakata. A similar comparison for me is Cal Ripken Jr's consecutive games record in MLB. Go Kotonowaka! (Whistling...) Edited November 18, 2004 by Whitney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted November 18, 2004 It could possible that one of the oyakatas in Sadogatake becomes the in-between Sadogatake-oyakata for a couple of years though. I am hoping for the in-between Sadogatake-oyakata. A similar comparison for me is Cal Ripken Jr's consecutive games record in MLB. Go Kotonowaka! (Whistling...) I completely agree. Btw, his Sadogatake heya-mate Kotokanyu will beat Oshio's all-time career basho record in 15 basho! ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted November 18, 2004 I completely agree. Btw, his Sadogatake heya-mate Kotokanyu will beat Oshio's all-time career basho record in 15 basho! (Whistling...) WOW! I did not know that! I bet Kotokanyu "hangs around" to break it to! I will be rooting fo him to break Oshio's record. I was not a big Oshio fan... for some reason... I mean, it wasn't like I ever met the guy.... ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted November 18, 2004 The prestige of being an oyakata might be greater than that of owning one record, and a record that doesn't mean much except to stattos at that. If Kotonowaka is concerned that another temporary oyakata might become permanent, or that there is no suitable oyakata other than him and therefore the heya would suffer unless he becomes oyakata, I understand his wantnig to retire before getting this record. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted November 18, 2004 f Kotonowaka is concerned that another temporary oyakata might become permanent, or that there is no suitable oyakata other than him and therefore the heya would suffer unless he becomes oyakata, I understand his wantnig to retire before getting this record. Isn't Kotonowaka married to Sadogatake-oyakata's daughter? He wouldn't be in danger of losing the position of top Oyakata, would he? (Whistling...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) The prestige of being an oyakata might be greater than that of owning one record, and a record that doesn't mean much except to stattos at that. Edited November 18, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted November 18, 2004 Still, he is payed more now than he would be as oyakata (which likely is more important than a record), and I don't think it's more prestigious either. Sadogatake-beya is a strong stable, but there is hardly any doubt in anyones mind who will take it over, so whether it takes another two years should not be that important. Kotonowaka stated that he would be taking over the heya so he is aware that he has a limited rikishi life left for him. Obviously there is no question that he would take over if the current Sadogatake oyakata leaves when he reaches the mandatory retirement but I have no doubt he will retire sooner should the oyakata cannot continue his official duty due to an illness or any other reason. He is well prepared for it. He is actually doing his oyakata's work now. However he did indicate that he would like to return to Sanyaku before he retires for his son. He may yet to accomplish this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faustonowaka 108 Posted November 18, 2004 Well, if he wins at least 5 out of his next 10 matches it should be enough to return to Sanyaku one more time and retire in style. Btw, were there any rikishi in the past that retired while holding a lower sanyaku rank (sekiwake or komusubi) ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,173 Posted November 18, 2004 Well, if he wins at least 5 out of his next 10 matches it should be enough to return to Sanyaku one more time and retire in style. I'm not that sure. Tochiazuma still could come down, and the four current lower Sanyaku could well achieve a kachi-koshi festival. Then it would be difficult to break in, especially if you consider Hakuho's performance so far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pikenoyama 27 Posted November 18, 2004 Btw, were there any rikishi in the past that retired while holding a lower sanyaku rank (sekiwake or komusubi) ? Probably yes and for sure somebody of our great guys here will find it out but not since hatsu 2002 where my records started - the highest positioned rikishi to retire excludind (ex)ozekis (Musoyama and Takanonami who retired as Maegashira 13e) and yokozunas (Musashimaru and Takanohana) was exsekiwake Akinoshima (Sendagawa Oyakata) at Maegashira 15w. All others including Terao, Takatoriki or Daizen felt at least to Juryo before their retirement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,670 Posted November 18, 2004 I completely agree. Btw, his Sadogatake heya-mate Kotokanyu will beat Oshio's all-time career basho record in 15 basho! (Whistling...) Do you happen to know if 'kanyu is anywhere close to following Tochitenko into the exclusive "100 basho in Makushita" club? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) Btw, were there any rikishi in the past that retired while holding a lower sanyaku rank (sekiwake or komusubi) ? The best chance to see something like that would probably be if an Ozeki dropped and decided to try one basho to regain his Ozeki-rank but failed and quit. It hasn't actually happened yet though (at least not during the current Ozeki promotion scheme). Indeed, pretty much all cases in Showa have been rather "special". No ordinary sanyaku just quits... The latest case was when Rikidozan decided his Korean ancestry would keep him from ever becoming Ozeki and quit as Sekiwake in 1950.09. Before that Itsutsushima was injured and dropped from Ozeki being ranked (but not competing) as Sekiwake when quitting in 1942.01. Okitsuumi died from blowfish (fugu) poisoning while on jungyo (September 1933), ranked as Sekiwake in his last basho. THe only case where someone could almost be said to "just quit" was Sekiwake Wakabayama who quit as Komusubi in 1933.05, but he was over 38 years old and had an appalling 1-10 record to boot. Tenryu was ranked as Sekiwake in 1932.01 when he was part of initiating the Shunjuen strike. Finally, another Ozeki, Tachihikari injured his foot, dropped from Ozeki and retired while Sekiwake (again without competing) in 1927.10. Edited November 18, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faustonowaka 108 Posted November 18, 2004 Thanks for the info (Whistling...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coo-cook 0 Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) There are rumors that the whole sumo library is stolen from Kyokai headquarters. The investigation by Tokyo police found only a shoe print which only suggests the shoe might be produced in one of the Scandinavian countries. The search has been unsuccessful so far. (Showing respect...) Edited November 18, 2004 by Coo-cook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,670 Posted November 19, 2004 Basically, I think it's just down to whether the succession of the heya can be arranged in a satisfying manner with an in-between oyakata (so that it doesn't become a feud over the succession which is not that unusual). I suspect that Sadogatake-beya is a heya where it could be arranged, but it remains to be seen what happens... Incidentally, Hidenoyama Oyakata (moto-Hasegawa) is 60 years old and would make a near-perfect interim Sadogatake, age-wise... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted November 19, 2004 There are rumors that the whole sumo library is stolen from Kyokai headquarters. The investigation by Tokyo police found only a shoe print which only suggests the shoe might be produced in one of the Scandinavian countries. The search has been unsuccessful so far. :-O I was wondering where all of the info on the list came from! (Blowing up furiously...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burainoan 0 Posted November 19, 2004 Personally, i'd be cool with an interim Sadogatake Oyakata - Hidenoyama is an excellent idea - if it meant another year or so of Kotonowaka. but as Jonosuke noted, he's pretty much already doing the job, and with his wife Machiko working as the de facto okami-san (she also did their English mirror site), so it might be a little awkward. but still, it's not like there's no precedent in Japanese society.... Koto for komusubi!! (Eh?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,275 Posted November 19, 2004 I have a feeling we will see a rapid decline in his ability from here on. I love the guy and all, but that's my gut feeling. I did say Kisenosato will go 4-11, so maybe I'm wrong here. Again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hakuyobaku 33 Posted November 19, 2004 Well, Kisenosato can still go 4-11, he's just 4-2 now . :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,670 Posted November 19, 2004 (edited) Personally, i'd be cool with an interim Sadogatake Oyakata - Hidenoyama is an excellent idea - if it meant another year or so of Kotonowaka. but as Jonosuke noted, he's pretty much already doing the job, and with his wife Machiko working as the de facto okami-san (she also did their English mirror site), so it might be a little awkward. but still, it's not like there's no precedent in Japanese society.... Fortunately, Sadogatake-beya is positively crawling with oyakata these days, so I suspect the workload won't be the major sticking point, even if Hidenoyama would end up being not much more than a figurehead Sadogatake for a year or two. (I have no idea what his current day-to-day involvement in the heya is.) And Kotonowaka does still seem to relish active competition, so I suspect if there's a way to keep him active for just a little while longer even beyond November 2005, Sadogatake-beya will find it. Besides, I assume the money is pretty good, what with bi-monthly bonuses based on 8 kinboshi and 83 consecutive Makuuchi tournaments. (Eh?) Edited November 19, 2004 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
