70s Shikona Question about Tenryu

[Monnodo 60]

Hello everybody,

 

since I have basically no Japanese knowledge but many of you good folks do, I wanted to ask: does anyone know, how Genichiro Tenryus Shikona was written during his sumo career? Maybe someone has a picture of a 70s Banzuke or something like that? Because according to Kinchstalker, a well known puroresu historian, Tenryus name had different writings during his Puro time early on 天竜, and天龍, and he tries to figure out why.

Thank you very much!

[Yarimotsu 588]

According to sumodb the reading was 天龍　源一郎. https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=4088&l=j 

The db doesn't store primary sources as far as I know, but a google search reveals a https://www.kosho.or.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=355076869 

1974 Nagoya banzuke clearly listing the reading as recorded on the db (ranked at maegashira 11 east).

As to why, the other provided reading uses an antique version of the "ryu" (dragon) character and maybe there were reasons to give that kind of image when in puroresu.

[Gurowake 4,092]

As a rikishi, according to the database he only used 天龍.  The other form of the second kanji is a more modern simplified version of the same "dragon" kanji.  According to https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/51991/should-i-use-竜-or-龍 , the simplified version should be used when referring to Western-style dragons, while the traditional version should be used for Chinese-style dragons, though usage differs in general.  From his English Wikipedia article, it looks like even in puroresu he used the traditional kanji.  Given that, unlike most traditional/simplified character pairs, the the older version is more common for this, I'm not sure why anyone would have used the simplified kanji, because the Japanese people in general know both of them well enough.  Using the wrong kanji in someone's name, even if it's just a different variant of the same kanji, is only done when there's an inability for the printer to use the character in the person's name, and they substitute the variant that they have (this can be annoying sometimes for the database).  If anyone ever referred to this guy using the simplified kanji, that would seem to be just wrong, but maybe someone who can dive into his Japanese Wikipedia article might find something. 

 

Edited November 25, 2024 by Gurowake

[Yarimotsu 588]

6 hours ago, Gurowake said:

The other form of the second kanji is a more modern simplified version of the same "dragon" kanji.

You know, I thought it was the other way around because of how common 龍 is, but I never checked.

[Monnodo 60]

Thank you guys, that was very helpful!

[Gurowake 4,092]

7 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

You know, I thought it was the other way around because of how common 龍 is, but I never checked.

Yeah, it's very unusual that the old kanji is more popular than the new one.  From what I was reading, it sounds like a lot of people hate the look of the new kanji for whatever reason, so people tend to use the old one in names more often.

[rokudenashi 324]

Touching more on KinchStalker's conundrum than your question, but maybe this is of interest...

I have an old DVD set of Tenryū matches and I remember being surprised years ago to see that he was mononymically billed as 天竜 - using the simplified kanji - in three matches from 1977, specifically:

1977.3.20 ジャンボ鶴田＆天竜 vs ザ・マフィア　（Jumbo Tsuruta & Tenryū vs The Mafia)
1977.6.11 国内デビュー戦　ジャイアント馬場＆天竜 vs マリオ・ミラノ＆メヒコ・グランデ　(Domestic debut match - Giant Baba & Tenryū vs Mario Milano & Mexico Grande)
1977.12.2 世界オープンタッグ選手権公式戦　ザ・ファンクス vs 天竜＆ロッキー羽田　(World Open Tag League, The Funks vs Tenryū & Rocky Hata)

For what it's worth, there's a section in his Japanese Wikipedia article that corroborates him being announced as just 天竜 from his debut, citing an episode of Nittele G+'s "Puroresu Classics" from December 2011.

This card stamp from a pamphlet for the 1977 World Open Tag League has him as the full 天龍源一郎, contradicting his billing on the last match of that DVD:

The pamphlet itself also lists him as 天龍源一郎 here (but curiously just "Tenryu" in English) - note the tagline for their team, 昇龍フレッシュファイターズ (Rising dragon fresh fighters) uses the original kanji. The term 昇龍 would resurface in a later nickname for Tenryū, 風雲昇り龍 (Dragon rising through the winds and clouds):

Going back a bit further to July 1977, his first full domestic tour. The pamphlet has 天竜 but the card stamp says 天龍:


It's quite possible that the simplified kanji usage was an honest error at the time, and eventually corrected. Whether there's any significance to it is uncertain. What does seem to be certain is that, even in Japan, he was announced as simply "Tenryū" for a time... kanji notwithstanding.

Edited November 27, 2024 by rokudenashi

[Yamanashi 3,878]

Sorry to get this off on a tangent, but I checked several -ryu sekitori in the db, and (for instance) Myogiryu and Hoshoryu use the full kanji (龍), while Kakuryu and Sentoryu use the simplified one (竜).

[Asojima 2,874]

6 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Sorry to get this off on a tangent, but I checked several -ryu sekitori in the db, and (for instance) Myogiryu and Hoshoryu use the full kanji (龍), while Kakuryu and Sentoryu use the simplified one (竜).

626 rikishi have used the full kanji (龍), and  237 have used the simplified one (竜).