Aki 2024 discussion (results)

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

Just now, Akinomaki said:

You can't compare that to other cases, esp. not Takakeisho. There is the "fix" unwritten rule: 3 times double digits at sanyaku and 33 wins is the exact precondition for a promotion, lately repeated by the top Takadagawa. The logical result is that they have to promote him to sekiwake, if he wins 10, because he is on official ozeki run then and they can't/won't promote him from komusubi to ozeki directly.

Is there such a thing as "official Ozeki run" that makes someone get promotions others don't? 

It is simple to me: if you didn't get to Sekiwake before your supposed big day, you don't qualify for Ozeki promotion.

And 10+10 doesn't really scream "imminent Yusho".

[dingo 1,159]

Hokutofuji had to resort to some escape artistry against Nishikifuji but some dohyo edge dancing got him in position for the pushout win. It's a sign of Hokutofuji's improving condition that he managed to get out of a situation he'd probably had lost from at the beginning of the basho.

Nishikigi likewise did well at the tawara and got a nice kotenage win over Kitanowaka, though it came at the last moment. Having suffered three big makekoshi in a row, is this the basho when Nishikigi finally turns his record around?

Bushozan's hot start has come to an abrupt stop at 4-4. On the other hand, Onokatsu looked a little better today, though winning on the belt against an oshi rikishi is not exactly a huge upset.

Kinbozan decided to turn around his horrible basho with a HNH special against Shirokuma and executed it perfectly. Though I feel a bit bad that Shirokuma is edging closer to falling back to juryo, he was too easy prey for Kinbozan.

74 years total on the dohyo and equally shared between Takarafuji and Sadanoumi. It's quite amazing both of them are still strong enough to be competing for kachikoshi in makuuchi. Today Sadanoumi got the upper hand, but 4 wins more shouldn't be too much for Takarafuji either.

After his win on day 2 against Roga, Kagayaki has looked quite hopeless. It wasn't much different today as Takayasu made short work of him. I might have to really eat my words on Takayasu as he's seemingly getting better day by day. Perhaps it's sumo that hurts him and sumo that heals him too...

Though I was commending Ryuden yesterday for succeeding with his regular yotsu, today he was bested with a throw by Roga. I know Roga is decent in grappling sumo but I was still a bit surprised he won. Perhaps not handing Ryuden a grip on the belt was key.

For a few moments it seemed as though Wakatakakage couldn't move Tamawashi back at all and Tamawashi would have the upper hand, but Wakatakakage recovered soon and managed to push out his opponent. Good on Tamawashi for putting up a serious fight, but that unfortunatly didn't save him from his fifth loss.

The European Fighting Horse doesn't really fight much, only pulls. Has he been taking lessons from another European, Aoiyama? Coincidentally Aoiyama himself is not doing well at all with 2 wins and 6 losses at Juryo 13.

1-win Meisei was a prime target for Midorifuji to get another much-needed win, and he got it though it didn't come too easily. 4 days to go until kachikoshi, but it'll be a tough journey for the small rikishi.

Gonoyama vs Ichiyamamoto could've been an amazing pushing and slapping contest yet Ichiyamamoto went for the easy pulldown win. Can't blame him because Gonoyama seems especially susceptible to pulling this basho.

Why did Endo choose 1-6 Shonannoumi as the target for a henka is beyond me. Perhaps he didn't want to end up in a tiring lengthy yotsu battle. While the henka did't quite work it set Endo up nicely for the subsequent win.

I think today was the first time I noticed Atamifuji's funny warmup wiggle dance before entering the dohyo. It didn't help him much though, as he got pushed out too easily after weathering Kotoshoho's tsuppari. The mono-ii result could be perhaps questionable but I tend to agree that most of his body was outside the dohyo space even if he was trying to push Kotoshoho down. Atamifuji is now been in the joi a few basho but isn't yet quite able to take the next step, perhaps for lack of experience.

I thought Oho looked suddenly aged but then I realised it's the black eye from yesterday's bout that makes him look somehow older. Maybe the extra imaginary life experience helped him stay patient against Tobizaru and claim and important win to take another step towards staking a claim for sanyaku. Be that as it may, it's good to see Oho maturing well.

Great spirited bout between Hiradoumi and Takanosho! Both were loath to lose, Takanosho trying to stop his fall closer to makekoshi and Hiradoumi attempting to keep his ozeki run alive somehow. I don't quite believe Hiradoumi is yet ozeki material, but he's getting closer.

Daieisho did an uncharacteristic cautious upright tachiai, perhaps trying to prevent Abi pulling a henka on him, which gave Abi a good opportunity to start his pushing onslaught. However maybe Daieisho was confident enough in his staying power that he chose to take Abi's attack. In any case, some nimble maneuvering got him behind his opponent and that was it. It's not the Daieisho we've gotten used to seeing, but he's getting his wins.

This basho the vintage Kirishima is back. He managed to stay amazingly calm in front of Ura who was trying to distract him with all kinds of wild swings and attempts to get inside. However Kirishima chose his moment well and in the end Ura was the one who got pushed out. Yusho run very much alive and a bout with Onosato may turn out to be decisive.

Onosato got his revenge against Mitakeumi for the loss last basho, but it wasn't as easy as Mitakeumi's record this basho could've suggested. But day 8 kachikoshi and the yusho lead are secure for now. Even if for some reason he wouldn't get the yusho in the end, I think "only" 12 wins and ozeki rank would still be a great outcome for Onosato this basho.

For a moment I thought Shodai could possibly get another ozeki scalp from Kotozakura, but in the end he couldn't use the opening Kotozakura gave him by being less than clinical at the first opportunity to finish the bout. With 5-2 in pursuit, Kotozakura can still hope to have a say in the yusho race.

All I could think of while watching Hoshoryu's bout preparation antics was "is this another case where he loses after puffing himself up before the bout"? But nope, that was a great match by Hoshoryu, going toe to toe with Wakamotoharu and coming out on top with a wonderful kakenage-ish kubinage win.

Half of the basho gone and I definitely would've expected seeing Onosato on top, but after the last few basho Kirishima as the sole runner-up is somewhat surprising. Can't wait to see how the second half of the basho goes for our leaders.

[Reonito 1,335]

29 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

You can't compare that to other cases, esp. not Takakeisho. There is the "fix" unwritten rule: 3 times double digits at sanyaku and 33 wins is the exact precondition for a promotion, lately repeated by the top Takadagawa. The logical result is that they have to promote him to sekiwake, if he wins 10, because he is on official ozeki run then and they can't/won't promote him from komusubi to ozeki directly.

The "rule" isn't a rule, it's a guideline, and you can find at least one counterexample. They don't have to do anything. And he isn't on an official ozeki run until they say so after the second basho of such a run, and give a target for the third, which they obviously won't do if they opt not to promote him this time.

[Akinomaki 39,755]

27 minutes ago, Reonito said:

The "rule" isn't a rule, it's a guideline, and you can find at least one counterexample. They don't have to do anything. And he isn't on an official ozeki run until they say so after the second basho of such a run, and give a target for the third, which they obviously won't do if they opt not to promote him this time.

The rule is the yardstick, everything else may result in a promotion, this has to - the counterexample is moot, because Miyabiyama was an ill-famed ex-ozeki at the time and for those, the yardstick may differ, especially in such unreliable cases as Miyabiyama. Show me one in the recent era.

[LeoD 17]

While they had somewhat reasonable arguments, I still feel that Miyabiyama got kind of robbed. With or without precedences - is there any rule that makes it generally impossible to leapfrog the sekiwake rank? No great analogy, but but leapfrogging komusubi is quite common.

[Jakusotsu 5,806]

Chiyoshoma back in Makuuchi.

[Bugman Re-Hatched 20]

That was a bit uncharitable of Kinbozan wasn't it?  Henka and an earslap, blimey.

[Benevolance 2,478]

20 hours ago, Katooshu said:

What does Onosato need to hit to make ozeki for November more likely than not? 

HIs opponents...

[dingo 1,159]

Wow, Oshoma didn't pull... and promptly lost. I expect him to learn the lesson and return to his winning technique tomorrow. 

Kotozakura couldn't handle Ura's low centre of gravity, let him get under and that was it. His quest for a yusho will continue next basho. 

Onosato won, but that was pretty close. Yet a win is a win which means just three wins left to the magical 12. I don't want to jinx him so I'm gonna stop here 

[Leoben 121]

6 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Chiyoshoma back in Makuuchi.

I saw the clip for the fight posted on twitter and then I noticed it was only 4 seconds long and rolled my eyes 

[Katooshu 3,132]

I notice a certain ex-Ozeki is on a roll in lower makuuchi, can't count him out, right?

Edited September 16 by Katooshu

[Reonito 1,335]

7 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Chiyoshoma back in Makuuchi.

In the most Chiyoshoma way possible

[Reonito 1,335]

21 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The rule is the yardstick, everything else may result in a promotion, this has to - the counterexample is moot, because Miyabiyama was an ill-famed ex-ozeki at the time and for those, the yardstick may differ, especially in such unreliable cases as Miyabiyama. Show me one in the recent era.

Nothing has to happen ... and the reason we don't have more counterexamples is that the scenario requires a very specific and rare set of circumstances so there are not many examples either way. Specifically, since 1990, there have been only 3 instances of exactly 33/3 with double digits in each basho, and all 3 were obvious promotions with all 3 basho at sekiwake, so we just don’t have enough data. 

Edited September 16 by Reonito

[Sue 481]

Why is Kirishima vs. Onosato happening on day 10, and not on Senshuraku?

[Katooshu 3,132]

Kirishima facing 1-7 Shonanoumi was a bit bleh. Will they keep matching Shonanoumi with top guys, even with that record?

Edited September 16 by Katooshu

[Oskanohana 227]

8 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Chiyoshoma back in Makuuchi.

2 hours ago, Leoben said:

I saw the clip for the fight posted on twitter and then I noticed it was only 4 seconds long and rolled my eyes 

57 minutes ago, Reonito said:

In the most Chiyoshoma way possible

Turn that frown upside down, you ungrateful haters. He'll grace makuuchi with his presence and possibly the jo'i in no time at all. He gets better with every passing year. I'm not counting out a possible ozeki run next year. Yushos are difficult with Takerufuji and whatnot, but Tokushoryu wasn't much better. Maybe there's a chance.

In other topics, fan favorite Hitoshi (half the people on juryo game including meself thought he was the bestest of his group) seems keen on henka'ing his way back to juryo, as regular sumo was sucking for him. 2 in a row and counting. He'll need many more of those, going forward onto next basho as he's outside the promotion zone. It reminds me of guys like Ichiki or Shoho, who would henka more than 50% of the time. We should really get a henka counter going on on this forum.

On 13/09/2024 at 23:46, Oskanohana said:

In the Endo-Sadanoumi affair, Sadanoumi didn't bother to even approach the sand with his left fist at the tachi-ai in clear view of Zatoichi-oyakata, head shinpan today. The fight was half-assed, but no call was made. I wasn't the most egregious ever as far as altering the result of the bout, but one might miss the "Era of the matta" that Musahigawa-rijicho brought with his appointment around 2010, maybe earlier (I cannot be bothered to look the precise date)

The same issue today on Tochitaikai-Wakaikari, though this time was hidden from Zatoichi-oyakata, Tochitaikai was doing it from the other side, but Kimura Zatoichi had a perfect angle and decided to allow it anyway despite the offender himself looking at him mid-fight like saying "ain't you gonna facking call it?".

Takerufuji is speed running juryo. I don't believe his 15 bouts will add up to a minute of fight time if this keeps going (and I don't see why not).

 

Regarding Onosato's ozeki promotion, he should get it unless he starts choking like a 21st century japanese yokozuna. Very impressive today how he survived Wakamotoharu's last ditch attempt. He's just pummelling people.

As far as his biggest rival for the yusho, I'm not yet sold that Kiribayamashima is back. His unexplained lack of staying power from last bashos might seem gone, but he has only taken care of the maegashira scrubs. Let's see how he fares against the top of the class in the next days: Daieisho, Abi, that ozeki that was sucking the first few days of the basho, the other ozeki that is sucking these last days. La crème de la crème.

[Akinomaki 39,755]

On day 8, Takakeisho for the first time after he went kyujo contacted the shisho by phone. No progress in respect to whether he'll retire or not, he's having treatment for the herniated disk in the cervical vertebrae area, about 3 weeks rest needed is in the medical certificate handed to the NSK. The shisho wants to respect his wishes (retire or not) and wants to talk to him on the phone frequently. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2024/09/16/0018126128.shtml

[Octofuji 327]

I don't know what that kimarite was by Takarafuji but it didn't look like sakatottari (armbar counter throw), since Oshouma wasn't attempting a tottari

[Octofuji 327]

37 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

Very impressive today how he survived Wakamotoharu's last ditch attempt. He's just pummelling people.

Wakamotoharu put so much into that, his left hand was still finishing the tottari while his right hand was starting the uwatenage!

I really enjoyed today's bouts, Endo excepted - two mirror image henkas in a row, he slipped to the right against Shonannoumi and to left against Gonoyama.

[Oskanohana 227]

14 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

I don't know what that kimarite was by Takarafuji but it didn't look like sakatottari (armbar counter throw), since Oshouma wasn't attempting a tottari

I'd probably call that a kotenage although there's no elbow lock or they could have gone for the usual hikiotoshi call. Sakatottari...are you kidding me? The KCD (Kimarite Complaints Department) takes note of it.

BTW, I've seen worse things called torinaoshi. The clownish end to the bout deserved one.

[RabidJohn 1,663]

2 hours ago, Sue said:

Why is Kirishima vs. Onosato happening on day 10, and not on Senshuraku?

Because the torikumi committee has more of an eye for tradition than narrative.

Also things might have changed a bit by then.

[Akinomaki 39,755]

The Hiradoumi discussion is mostly moot by now, we will have only 1 of the present sekiwake left and the 2 komusubi most likely won't get 10 wins, the better one will be promoted and that's it.

[Octofuji 327]

17 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

I'd probably call that a kotenage although there's no elbow lock or they could have gone for the usual hikiotoshi call. Sakatottari...are you kidding me? The KCD (Kimarite Complaints Department) takes note of it.

BTW, I've seen worse things called torinaoshi. The clownish end to the bout deserved one.

Yes kotenage occurred to me except they were facing in the same direction

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

10 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Chiyoshoma back in Makuuchi.

In the most Chiyoshoma way possible

To be fair, Chiyoshoma has produced some absolutely gorgeous sumo this basho. I think that today he was getting worried that he might start getting, you know, like, popular...

[Oskanohana 227]

9 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

To be fair, Chiyoshoma has produced some absolutely gorgeous sumo this basho. I think that today he was getting worried that he might start getting, you know, like, popular...

That's my general impression, though these last few days have been very iffy. Let's review them all:

Day 1: W  by katasukashi against Nishikifuji. Backpedalling but in control of the move. OK.

Day 2: W by katasukashi against Tokihayate. Backpedalling again, but he started with a forward attack and threw Tokihayate off balance with the retreat. OK, better than yesterday.

Day 3: W by kotenage against Onosho. Backpedalling yet again but in control. Locked Onosho's elbow with both hands and flung him around. OK

Day 4: W by yorikiri against Tamashoho(doppelganger). Lengthy yotsu bout. Chiyoshoma was always the aggressor, had the upper hand all the way, gave doppelganger no chance. Good.

Day 5: W by susoharai against Shishi. Unsettled yotsu affair (it's Shishi after all) that Chiyoshoma decided with an uwatenage + final trip of the leg. Excellent

Day 6: W by uwatenage against Shimanoumi. Quick twisting uwatenage without giving Shimanoumi any time to settle. Good

Day 7: W by katasukashi against Shimazuumi. Jumping henka that essentially backfired but he pulled a last ditch katasukashi attempt that won miraculously. Bad.

Day 8: L by oshidashi against Daiamami. Daiamami charged Chiyoshoma like a bull 3-4 times constantly throwing him off balance. Pummelled.

Day 9: W by uwatenage against Hakuoho. Henka to get the uwate and quick twisting uwatenage. Bad.

 

You people can form your own opinions. I give you the objective (subjective) data.