ex-Yoshikaze starts his own heya

[rhyen 1,809]

https://x.com/Yoshikaze319/status/1799352645993566309

[Akinomaki 39,797]

Before keiko at the heya will start, today was the kiyoharai-no-gi for the heya's shrine, because the 12th is taian - an auspicious day. With oyakata, 7 rikishi - Kato has to go to sumo school - yobidashi, tokoyama and the chief priest of the Ushijima shrine for the Shinto ceremony. The heya will have not only asageiko but also afternoon keiko - a rarity, Yoshikaze like in other sports wants more exercise for the rikishi, to get a firm body. So far they are using the training room, keiko is planned to start next Monday. The heya is in a 6 storey building, ground floor dohyo, 2nd floor dining, 3rd floor training room, 4th floor the big heya for the lower ranked, 5th floor for the oyakata, 6th floor private rooms for sekitori.

o o o

the offerings

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o o oo

o o

Edited June 12 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 39,797]

On 12/06/2024 at 09:57, Akinomaki said:

The heya will have not only asageiko but also afternoon keiko - a rarity, Yoshikaze like in other sports wants more exercise for the rikishi, to get a firm body. So far they are using the training room, keiko is planned to start next Monday.

21 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Nakamura-beya started today, at 15:30h with the rare afternoon keiko

o

Tomokaze with Kayo

o

 

The training room with extras: Miyagi, in the back Nishida and Nakamura-oyakata

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Tomokaze in the O2box Oxygen chamber - Yoshikaze had bought it for assumed 3 million yen

o

[dingo 1,160]

Interesting, a quick Google search tells me that there actually seems to be a science behind the O2 box / hyperbaric treatment. Wonder if any positive effects to the rikishi will appear already in the next basho or two. 

[Gurowake 3,922]

14 hours ago, dingo said:

Interesting, a quick Google search tells me that there actually seems to be a science behind the O2 box / hyperbaric treatment. Wonder if any positive effects to the rikishi will appear already in the next basho or two. 

I'm not really seeing anything on the list of conditions that it treats that would apply to most rikishi.  It might be useful in a way that improves performance though, that's just not something that is going to be on the Mayo Clinic's list of conditions treated.  I personally am generally skeptical of any treatment that can be used for a large variety of things, since that sounds a whole lot like snake oil.  Not to say that it's wrong in this case, but that's my general thought pattern.

[rhyen 1,809]

16 hours ago, dingo said:

Interesting, a quick Google search tells me that there actually seems to be a science behind the O2 box / hyperbaric treatment. Wonder if any positive effects to the rikishi will appear already in the next basho or two. 

 

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I'm not really seeing anything on the list of conditions that it treats that would apply to most rikishi.  It might be useful in a way that improves performance though, that's just not something that is going to be on the Mayo Clinic's list of conditions treated.  I personally am generally skeptical of any treatment that can be used for a large variety of things, since that sounds a whole lot like snake oil.  Not to say that it's wrong in this case, but that's my general thought pattern.

It is generally not use for curative treatment, more like post-intense-exercise recovery phase. Michael Phelps did convert a room into a hyperbaric treatment for his 2016 Olympic preparation, it helped him recover faster from training sessions so he could train more often.

given that Nakamura is doing double keiko training sessions, it would make sense for him to adopt such a method to help his deshi recover faster between training sessions. 

[Koorifuu 886]

Novak Djokovic is also hitting the hyperbaric chamber regularly after his injury at the French Open, ahead of the Olympic Games. It's far from the first time; I'd read he pretty much has a mobile hyperbaric truck.

There's definitely very successful people who believe it works, whether it's snake oil or not.

[Akinomaki 39,797]

Looks like rather than Waseda's Nishonoseki with new methods of heya management, Sports Science man Nakamura with new methods of training has the most advanced heya in the world. He of course also made a side comment about wasting time in trains.

Not only 2 times training, also the core part of sumo training, eating is different from other heya. Standard practice is hard training in the morning with empty stomach, then eating and sleeping to gain mass. The afternoon used to be for free use.  Mienoumi at Musashigawa-beya had introduced regular afternoon training in a training room. o (sanspo claims that there are 45, not 44 heya heya now - the NSK still only has 44 though https://www.sumo.or.jp/ResultRikishiData/sumo_beya/)

Yoshikaze for his 30 sekitori project now has the deshi eat and then train, and has 3 meals, the sumo standard is only 2 times a day, to get fat quicker

o o

generally the deshi train without tachiai, starting in yotsu position like in sumo of other countries - no butsukari-geiko.

o o

On the 2nd day asageiko started at 9:30h - at heya on empty stomach they start at 7h, afternoon training at 14h in the training room. The rikishi have 2 days off each weeks, keiko with sumo bouts is limited to 3 times a week, in exchange muscle training 2 times a week is added. The machines for that are those Yoshikaze used while active plus new equipment for over 1 million yen.

[RabidJohn 1,665]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

... generally the deshi train without tachiai, starting in yotsu position ...

I am both surprised and gratified that he's not teaching them his 'lead-with-your-face' style. 

I have to admit I was a little concerned for his deshi when I saw him wearing a mawashi on the training dohyo.

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

It will be interesting to see how his modern-day- rikishi perform compared to the traditionalists. I'm all for innovation within the sport, but can't help thinking that tachi-ai is such an integral part of sumo that it's hard to see how it will be an advantage to not train at this aspect of the sport while one's competitors are.

Edited June 20 by Kaninoyama

[Katooshu 3,135]

I have never done any sumo training, so am hesistant to give much input on the matter, but I am interested in how incorporating more skill specific training would work in sumo. In many martial arts, drilling particular techniques and situations composes a larger portion of training than sparring does, whereas sumo is much more focused on learning through practice matches. Takadagawa beya training sessions stand out to me for how much the oyakata gets in there and works through different techniques with his guys to the side of the practice dohyo.

Edited June 21 by Katooshu

[Asojima 2,870]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

Takadagawa beya training sessions stand out to me for how much the oyakata gets in there and works through different techniques with his guys to the side of the practice dohyo.

During the last decade or so, the oyakata have concentrated their training for Japanese rikishi on forward moving, pushme-pullyou techniques.  For the most part, yotsu training has gone by the wayside.  (Are the oyakata taking the easy way out?)  The Mongolians learn some of the grappling techniques through their early experience with bokh, and that is one of the reasons that they have dominated the Ozumo scene. 

[dingo 1,160]

If the deshi generally train without tachiai, how are they going to get better at this crucial part of sumo? We've all seen how a bad tachiai can cost a bout. 

[Tochinofuji 372]

 

6 hours ago, dingo said:

If the deshi generally train without tachiai, how are they going to get better at this crucial part of sumo? We've all seen how a bad tachiai can cost a bout. 

I think the focused training on grip fighting/pummeling, positioning, and finishing mechanics can make a lot of sense, assuming there is both dedicated tachiai practice as well as full match practice elsewhere. This approach is also likely to limit some keiko wear and tear. 

This is effectively what's called situational drilling or sparring in wrestling or BJJ and allows one to drill specific techniques against full resistance in a deliberate fashion. That is, it's all well and good that you learned an uwatenage, but if you are just doing full match sparring from tachiai all the time you won't be able to get in enough repetitions of the technique to make it effective. 

So, drill the finishing technique, then zoom out and drill a gripping sequence to the finishing technique, and then zoom out again to tachiai to gripping to technique. As a pedagogical system, it produces very high level grapplers, so long as all parts are worked on appropriately. 

Time will tell, but for the moment I doubt the rikishi are getting zero tachiai practice, and if that becomes a hole in their game it can then become the focus of drilling as they go. 

Edited June 21 by Tochinofuji
Typo - call changed to calls

[Asashosakari 18,786]

Some more stuff about how Nakamura intends to run his heya, courtesy of a long form Daily Sports article.

While a lot of his training and nutrition approach (previously detailed in the thread) hews close to what Nishonoseki-beya is doing, Nakamura will also be taking social cues from how his old stomping grounds Oguruma-beya were being run by ex-Kotokaze, with some modernizing touches added by himself. Oguruma, Nakamura says, was always supportive even when he made mistakes or went a little out of line, which in turn inspired him and the other rikishi to remain mindful of their overall duties. That atmosphere of mutual respect between shisho and deshi is what he wants to recreate at Nakamura-beya.

The new stable's ground rules of behaviour have not been determined by Nakamura in top-down fashion, but rather in cooperation with all heya members; he also wants to keep the lines open for everyone to continue expressing their opinions. In particular, only underage members will be subject to an evening curfew time. All adults - not just sekitori - will be allowed to spend their time as they wish, including overnight, as long as they notify the heya personnel of their whereabouts and their social outings do not interfere with their duties such as training, chores and other scheduled activities. "We will build bonds not based on the threat of discipline, but on trust and confidence", Nakamura explains.

Speaking of chores, Nakamura wants these to be a shared responsibility of everyone including himself and any sekitori, not just the least senior wrestlers. "I'm going to lead by example. Not just tell them what to do, but show them how to do it, and do my part. I'll help clean, even do the dishes. I want this heya to be a place where the tsukebito aren't tasked with doing as much [as elsewhere]."

[Akinomaki 39,797]

Nakamura-beya for its first basho has arrived yesterday at their Nagoya location in Toyota city. o

at the dohyo purification ceremony

 

[Akinomaki 39,797]

On 12/06/2024 at 09:57, Akinomaki said:

Before keiko at the heya will start, today was the kiyoharai-no-gi for the heya's shrine, because the 12th is taian - an auspicious day. With oyakata, 7 rikishi - Kato has to go to sumo school - yobidashi, tokoyama and the chief priest of the Ushijima shrine for the Shinto ceremony.

The heya started with keiko on June 17th, but the official heya opening was only today - 3 riji were present

o  o o o

o

"Rikishi first" is what he aims for at his heya

Edited September 1 by Akinomaki