Akinomaki

Natsu 2024 discussion (results)

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Just to say that Kisenosato was younger that Onosato when he first made sekiwake.

Back in March 2009 the yokozuna were Asashoryu and Hakuho. The rest of the sanyaku included Kotooshu, Baruto, Chiyotaikai, Kaio, Harumafuji and Goeido... oh and Kakuryu was at m1. So it isn't a huge surprise that it took him a long time to take the last 2 steps.

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I don't see how comparisons between Kisenosato and Onosato are valid. 

Hagiwara Yutaka started in Maezumo at the age of 15.

Nakamura Daiki went through University Sumo and already ranked Ms10 when he joined at age 23.

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1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

I don't see how comparisons between Kisenosato and Onosato are valid. 

Hagiwara Yutaka started in Maezumo at the age of 15.

Nakamura Daiki went through University Sumo and already ranked Ms10 when he joined at age 23.

You just compared them to highlight the differences, but get your point that there are few if any parallels between their career trajectories.

Nishonoseki won't be the first shisho to get a deshi more successful than he was, which is what Onosato looks like right now.

'More successful' isn't the same as 'more talented', btw. Onosato should be more successful simply because he's coming into a power vacuum: his boss faced a tougher class of rikishi already established above him.

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3 hours ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

On the other hand, I still cannot understand where sumo Kotozakura excels at.

He excels at being rather immobile. Pushers have a hard time moving him, and he doesn't move himself enough to overcommit and slip up against chaos agents.

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Posted (edited)

Kotozakura isn't great at anything but is good at many things, and has moves for nearly every type of situation. He can push or yori opponents out, counter hard chargers with a throw or pull Houdini moves against the tawara, win long matches or quick ones. I'm not sure any active rikishi is more well-rounded than him.

Edited by Katooshu
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Just did a quick tally of Koto(nowaka/zakura)'s matches since becoming Sanyaku. My categories are surely highly subjective, but nevertheless...

'Pushers' (Onosho/Hokutofuji/etc.) 14-7

'Thrusters' (Daiesho/Abi/etc.) 26-8

'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21

'Chaos agents' (Midorifuji/Ura/etc.) 23-9

'Mixed style' (Takayasu/etc.) 6-1

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5 hours ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

Really impressed by Onosato and what he has achieved so far. Tremendous a seventh basho and a yusho. A rightful ozeki and who else what next for him. 

On the other hand, I still cannot understand where sumo Kotozakura excels at.

Economy of force, fortuitous timing and obviously the discreet cheerleading from some of the NSK.

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1 hour ago, Wakawakawaka said:

'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21

And this might reflect the higher caliber of guys currently in that category...

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On 26/05/2024 at 06:44, RabidJohn said:

Maybe I'm weird but I've been enjoying this extended period of no really dominant rikishi; even Terunofuji has only managed 14-1 twice and 15-0 once in his whole career. I like the unpredictability. Onosato may or may not be the one to bring it all to an end. We'll see.

Regardless, hearty congratulations to Onosato on a well-earned hatsu yusho - and to Nishonoseki-san, not least for his quick work on the hinkaku front; the very muted 'Yes!' reaction on the dohyo was a big improvement over day 1. Getting a bit emotional at the ringside (while your dad's completely in bits in the audience) is perfectly acceptable, IMO.

At 10-5 and 11-4J respectively, Hoshoryu and Kotozakura put up ozeki numbers, so I can't really complain. I'm immensely disappointed about Kirishima losing his rank, though.

I'm in your boat.  At the end of the day, for me, Sumo is entertainment.  I don't understand how having the yusho decided after 13 or 14 days is somehow preferable for some of y'all.  I want competitive basho where there are several in the hunt going into the final two days.  I want ENTROPY.  Regardless, there was plenty of good sumo to be seen.  Yes there was some poor sumo displayed, but good sumo too.  Much rather have a basho like this than one dominant guy running away with it all the time.

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I have seen many basho with very poor sumo. I prefer two or three dominant rikishi, but presenting great sumo.

We don’t have a strong and consistent Yokozuna since 2019? 2018? Five or six years? Since the beginning of Hakuho’s decline.

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7 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said:

He excels at being rather immobile. Pushers have a hard time moving him, and he doesn't move himself enough to overcommit and slip up against chaos agents.

What was the first rule of kotodynamics?

Kotozakura cannot be moved, but moving Kotozakura cannot stop. 

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5 hours ago, Reonito said:

And this might reflect the higher caliber of guys currently in that category...

I bet Terunofuji is also in this category. 

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10 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said:

Just did a quick tally of Koto(nowaka/zakura)'s matches since becoming Sanyaku. My categories are surely highly subjective, but nevertheless...

'Pushers' (Onosho/Hokutofuji/etc.) 14-7

'Thrusters' (Daiesho/Abi/etc.) 26-8

'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21

'Chaos agents' (Midorifuji/Ura/etc.) 23-9

'Mixed style' (Takayasu/etc.) 6-1

I won't lie, the "chaos agents" category might be one of the best identifications I have ever seen of a sumo style. 

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12 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said:

Just did a quick tally of Koto(nowaka/zakura)'s matches since becoming Sanyaku. My categories are surely highly subjective, but nevertheless...

'Pushers' (Onosho/Hokutofuji/etc.) 14-7

'Thrusters' (Daiesho/Abi/etc.) 26-8

'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21

'Chaos agents' (Midorifuji/Ura/etc.) 23-9

'Mixed style' (Takayasu/etc.) 6-1

This is almost like identifying different disciplines of fighting. Wrestling, judo, jiujutsu, karate, tae kwon do, etc.

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@Wakawakawaka on my eye he also struggles with yotsu wrestlers, but I never seen the numbers. Thanks for compiling such a list. 

I am not saying he is not good, but it is very hard for me at least to identify what type of rikishi he is. Houdini at the tawara is a great description. He had a good tournament and quite possibly could end up being a yokozuna at some point. 

@bettega I prefer unpredictability and having a senshuraku with several rikishi vying for the tournament. So last 5-6 years have been really great for me in that regard. 

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