Bench Men's Euros 2024

[Athenayama 1,199]

On 04/06/2024 at 22:02, Athenayama said:

Group C:
Refioji: Athenayama 

Attention @Finngall Baku / @Jejima and Polimasa / @Achiyama please send me your line-ups by PM here.

DEADLINE is one hour before the start of the first game Germany - Scotland on Friday June 14th, 06:00 PM GMT (08:00 PM or 20h00 German time).
The game starts at 07:00 PM GMT (09:00 PM or 21h00 German time)

Thanks in advance and good luck ! 

Status report (just as reminder) :

Line-ups received from Finngall.

Still waiting for Baku / @Jejima and Polimasa / @Achiyama

[Jejima 1,498]

40 minutes ago, Athenayama said:

Still waiting for Baku / @Jejima a

I sent - over an hour ago....

I'll send again.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Jejima

[Jejima 1,498]

1 minute ago, Jejima said:

I sent - over an hour ago....

I'll send again.

Athenayama cannot receive messages.

I think that you need to delete some of your PM box.

I sent Kaba's line-up via an old message thread that we have for Mr Froggy's line-ups from last year's competition.

[Athenayama 1,199]

51 minutes ago, Jejima said:

Athenayama cannot receive messages.

I think that you need to delete some of your PM box.

I sent Kaba's line-up via an old message thread that we have for Mr Froggy's line-ups from last year's competition.

Sorry about that. I cleared some space, it should be ok now.

I deleted Mr Froggy's conversation long time ago, please send again.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Athenayama

[Koorifuu 1,120]

11 hours ago, Ganzohnesushi said:

Even 'small' nations like Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Greece (Rehakles!!! ) and Portugal have won the Euros at least once... 

Ganzohnesushi 

I might be biased, but one of those is not like the others, is it? 

You've listed two flashes in a pan, one team whose high level lasted for 3 years...

...and the 4th one has been consistently regarded as a top 10 national team for the last 20+ years, with 1 Euros Championship + 1 Euros Final + 1 WC SF + 1 Euros SF since 2004. (With, admittedly, a bunch of underperforming disappointments in between)

Edited June 8, 2024 by Koorifuu

[Asapedroryu 243]

2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

I might be biased, but one of those is not like the others, is it? 

You mean Czechoslovakia? While they existed as a country, they did win the Euros once, like the others, but also got to 2 WC finals, 2 Euro finals and 2 Euro semis.

[Ganzohnesushi 548]

14 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

...and for me it's even more ridiculous to refer to a national team as "them" over decades. It's like equating Beckenbauer with Musiala.

You didn't get my point. The bookmakers over decades declared England to favourites or at least co-favourites. Regardless who was playing for England.

Ganzohnesushi

[Koorifuu 1,120]

22 minutes ago, Asapedroryu said:

You mean Czechoslovakia? While they existed as a country, they did win the Euros once, like the others, but also got to 2 WC finals, 2 Euro finals and 2 Euro semis.

Strong spurts across three short periods. (Early 1930's, 1960-1962 and 1976-1980, and even even the latter one had a blip in the middle).

Very impressive on its own right, but if we're trying to establish what is a 'small' country and what isn't, three four-year periods across 50 years isn't exactly comparable to similar results sustained consistently across two full, consecutive decades.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Koorifuu

[Ganzohnesushi 548]

3 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

I might be biased, but one of those is not like the others, is it? 

You've listed two flashes in a pan, one team whose high level lasted for 3 years...

...and the 4th one has been consistently regarded as a top 10 national team for the last 20+ years, with 1 Euros Championship + 1 Euros Final + 1 WC SF + 1 Euros SF since 2004. (With, admittedly, a bunch of underperforming disappointments in between)

I was more referring to the size of nations, that's why I mentioned Portugal here. I guess we all know about the high quality of that team.

Ganzohnesushi

[Ganzohnesushi 548]

7 hours ago, Jejima said:

I wouldn't use 'British'. Better to use 'English'. It is highly likely (based on the respective populations of the countries), that there were ten times as many people celebrating yesterday's Iceland victory living in Britain than there were in Iceland.

Population of Iceland = 382,000
Population of Scotland = 5,454,000

I was explicitely using 'England' because I'm very much aware of the rivalry between the British teams. I remember very well the QF WC match between England and Portugal in 2006. Was watching this in a pub in Edinburgh. It was merrymaking when England lost on penalties (as almost always).

Ganzohnesushi

[Jejima 1,498]

14 hours ago, Ganzohnesushi said:

I was explicitely using 'England' because I'm very much aware of the rivalry between the British teams.

I think it is mostly anti-English by Scotland, to be honest. I *think* that Scotland would be happy to cheer on Wales and Northern Ireland.

I *think* most people living in England will support Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (and Ireland itself, to be honest) if they are playing against a team other than England.

I *think* about half of Northern Ireland (basically along religious lines) will probably support England - and the other UK nations (the other half of Northern Ireland favouring the Republic of Ireland).  

I *think* (but I am less certain about this) that the Welsh will support Scotland and Northern Ireland, and *probably* support England in any competition that Wales is not competing in.

This is just my opinion. But, for example, I know that I will be cheering on Scotland when they face Germany on Friday - but that the vast majority of Scotland will be wanting Serbia to defeat England next Sunday.

[Athenayama 1,199]

Reading all the above I suddenly have a "Braveheart" feeling rising.

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

15 hours ago, Ganzohnesushi said:

You didn't get my point. The bookmakers over decades declared England to favourites or at least co-favourites. Regardless who was playing for England.

Alright, here's a challenge: can you locate any betting site that doesn't have England on top?

[Jejima 1,498]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Alright, here's a challenge: can you locate any betting site that doesn't have England on top?

I was thinking maybe French betting sites (following the bias that English sites have towards England, due to the number of people betting on 'their' country), but the first one that I checked.....

https://www.enligne.parionssport.fdj.fr/paris-football/international/euro-2024

....has England on top, France second and Germany third - same as all the UK based sites.

[Athenayama 1,199]

On 03/06/2024 at 22:58, Ganzohnesushi said:

Always the same with England and the english bookmakers. Dreamers since 1966... I assume Italian, Spanish or French bookmakers have different odds.

Ganzohnesushi

 

On 04/06/2024 at 00:59, Athenayama said:

Nope.They're on top everywhere I looked. Not only in France.

 

@Jejima I already answered to that question.

[Ganzohnesushi 548]

10 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Alright, here's a challenge: can you locate any betting site that doesn't have England on top?

I'm not active on these betting sites, I've never been. The only odds I was interested in was horse racing when I was a student in the 80's... And now of course Odd Sumo

Ganzohnesushi

[Asapedroryu 243]

On 03/06/2024 at 22:58, Ganzohnesushi said:

 I assume Italian, Spanish or French bookmakers have different odds.

Ganzohnesushi

Not really. Mainly because:

• Betting companies often operate in multiple countries and sometimes with different names, but are part of the same group and use the same odds. I had some friends working for them in Malta, where many European Betting Companies are based, and they were working for most European countries, even for companies I had no idea they were related.
• Odds are mostly provided by third parties using a series of maths and algorithms, and although there are different third party companies, their odds might differ in a few decimals, but not more than that. Each company, probably all, still has their own experts that validate the odds and make small changes before publishing them. They might change a 3.50 to a 3.80 for different reasons like a marketing campaign or risk assessment, but they wouldn't change to a 6.0.

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

Now the only question remaining is whether the crow @Ganzohnesushi has to eat when England wins has to be a raven from the Tower of London.

[Koorifuu 1,120]

On 08/06/2024 at 19:37, Ganzohnesushi said:

I was more referring to the size of nations, that's why I mentioned Portugal here. I guess we all know about the high quality of that team.

Ganzohnesushi

Fair enough!

Although I do have to point out that, if we're going by geographical areas, the Netherlands is the smallest winner at 41k km^2, and it wasn't named. You could fit three Netherlandses inside Greece (131k km^2) and Czechoslovakia (128k km^2)! 

Edited June 10, 2024 by Koorifuu

[Athenayama 1,199]

26 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Fair enough!

Although I do have to point out that, if we're going by geographical areas, the Netherlands is the smallest winner at 41 km^2, and it wasn't named. You could fit three Netherlandses inside Greece (131 km^2) and Czechoslovakia (128 km^2)! 

You just forgot the thousands. (41 850 km², 131 900 km², 128 000 km²)

Edited June 10, 2024 by Athenayama

[Koorifuu 1,120]

49 minutes ago, Athenayama said:

You just forgot the thousands. (41 850 km², 131 900 km², 128 000 km²)

Thank you. Brainfart moment.  It felt strange that the Netherlands was marginally larger than my hometown but my brain didn't put 2+2 together.

Edited June 10, 2024 by Koorifuu

[Athenayama 1,199]

@Koorifuu  I'm certainly not the one to teach lessons. I'm sure I'll make mistakes as a refioji so you'll have the opportunity to correct me !

[Jejima 1,498]

11 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Now the only question remaining is whether the crow @Ganzohnesushi has to eat when England wins has to be a raven from the Tower of London.

England were (arguably) the best team at the previous Euros in 2021 - losing on penalties in the final against Italy. But, even if you rank them as 'second best' based on results - that still makes them Yokozuna material, as we need at least two teams per bracket for this game (so at least the top 2 teams need to be labelled as Yokozunas).

Crows and ravens are different birds (although both belong to the Corvids family). We don't want any ravens from the Tower of London to be eaten - just in case - as the safety of the kingdom is more important than Ganzohnesushi appreciating that England can (sometimes) play football  

As an aside.... *if* we were to consider the female AND male footballing abilities TOGETHER of any one footballing nation, what would be the top 3?  

[Koorifuu 1,120]

33 minutes ago, Jejima said:

As an aside.... *if* we were to consider the female AND male footballing abilities TOGETHER of any one footballing nation, what would be the top 3?  

Spain, France and England. Uninspiring. 

I'd say only the Netherlands can possibly argue they're anywhere close to that trio. World beaters on both sides for all four nations.

Germany is close but not quite there for both genders. Brazil, Argentina and Italy's women's teams don't quite cut it, while it's the men that sink the US & the Nordics' aspirations.

Edited June 10, 2024 by Koorifuu

[Jejima 1,498]

Okay, I just had a look.  

Only 5 countries are in the top 10 for both the Men and Women's current FIFA rankings.  If you add them together, here are the top five six footballing nations in reverse order.... (Adding USA, just because....)

=4. USA - 15 (M = 11, W = 4)
=4. Brazil - 15 (M = 5, W = 10)
=4. Netherlands - 15 (M = 7, W = 8)
3. Spain - 9 (M = 8, W = 1)
2. England - 6 (M = 4, W = 2)
1. France - 5 (M = 2, W = 3)

Edited June 10, 2024 by Jejima
Adding USA....