Koorifuu 886 Posted February 23 I can't wrap my head around one thing in particular. Miyagino is a smart man, so he must understand the shaky position he was put in. Why risk it all by choosing to turn a blind eye to all of this? There's three possibilities in my mind. He was overconfident to a stratospheric level, thinking nobody could touch him He thought he had all his deshi on a tight enough leash that nobody would dare speak against him when confronted by the investigations He's got some dirt on the NSK and knew he wouldn't be thrown out, despite outwardly appearances All three are interesting on their own way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamitsuumi 384 Posted February 23 One possibility that some rag pointed out was that, because how close Hokuseiho was to Hakuho, he actually had dirt on his stablemaster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fashiritētā 169 Posted February 23 Could it be possible that the Yakuza got to Hokuseiho? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Koorifuu 886 Posted February 23 15 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said: One possibility that some rag pointed out was that, because how close Hokuseiho was to Hakuho, he actually had dirt on his stablemaster I didn't consider this, but that's not that unlikely. Highly spectaculative however, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junsan 170 Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Kaitetsu said: Well, he is getting another chance... don't f*** that up Hakuho A good start would be to keep hawk eyes on OTANI! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,786 Posted February 23 2 hours ago, RabidJohn said: The fact that he hasn't gone reinforces my opinion that the NSK literally cannot afford to get rid of him. Is that still based on that nonsensical tabloid theory that the Kyokai owed Hakuho 30,000 yen for every kensho he ever won? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,786 Posted February 23 29 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said: One possibility that some rag pointed out was that, because how close Hokuseiho was to Hakuho, he actually had dirt on his stablemaster Although that struck me as the most implausible thing in the initial Shincho article - I mean, which late 20s / early 30s guy entrusts his life secrets to some teenage kid that is not family, even if there's a long acquaintance? And if it were secrets obtained since Hokuseiho joined ozumo, you'd have to question Hakuho's sanity, not just his shisho qualities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted February 23 2 hours ago, Koorifuu said: I can't wrap my head around one thing in particular. Miyagino is a smart man, so he must understand the shaky position he was put in. Why risk it all by choosing to turn a blind eye to all of this? There's three possibilities in my mind. He was overconfident to a stratospheric level, thinking nobody could touch him He thought he had all his deshi on a tight enough leash that nobody would dare speak against him when confronted by the investigations He's got some dirt on the NSK and knew he wouldn't be thrown out, despite outwardly appearances All three are interesting on their own way. I would pick the first option. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted February 23 29 minutes ago, junsan said: A good start would be to keep hawk eyes on OTANI! His hinkaku is lacking, but is he actually violent? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,354 Posted February 23 (edited) Or, maybe, just maybe, this stuff is still going on in a lot of other heyas with different degrees of intensity so Hakuhou thought nothing of it, as long as it stayed away from prying tabloid eyes. In any case, Hakuhou proves that being an oyakata is not a walk in the park, even though you are ex-Hakuhou, the GOAT (Game Over-A Toshiyori). Side note-unconnected? Ex-Takanohana suddenly appears from nowhere on social media today, sporting a beard and playing with his dog, looking relaxed and happy, promising his fans that he's back and will be in touch.. Edited February 23 by Kintamayama 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,354 Posted February 23 2 hours ago, RabidJohn said: @Kintamayama Is 5 years how long you thought it would take the NSK to recover from the revenue loss due to COVID then? If so, you're probably right. I do not remember making such a claim, but if I did, well yeah, sure! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junsan 170 Posted February 23 11 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: His hinkaku is lacking, but is he actually violent? Who knows. But Miyagino's got to be extra-extra careful now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted February 23 2 hours ago, Kaitetsu said: Will this be a temporary (even if for over a year) arrangement, or is Hakuho basically not gonna be stablemaster anymore? Temporary, I think. Why would they try to teach him otherwise? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muhomatsu 224 Posted February 23 Made the Daily Mail headlines: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13117211/Hakuho-sumos-greatest-wrestler-given-humiliating-demotion-held-responsible-violent-acts-carried-22-year-old-prot-g.html 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leoben 121 Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, Kintamayama said: Or, maybe, just maybe, this stuff is still going on in a lot of other heyas with different degrees of intensity so Hakuhou thought nothing of it, as long as it stayed away from prying tabloid eyes. I've always believed there's probably some amount of bullying and hazing going on at most stables. As long as it takes place behind closed doors or doesn't become too extreme, we never hear about it because there's a culture of silence and it's just a normal part of life for young, aspiring rikishi. It's not hard to picture Hakuho, hyper-competitive and driven by success as he is, buying into that old-school machismo and shrugging this stuff off as normal. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, Leoben said: I've always believed there's probably some amount of bullying and hazing going on at most stables. As long as it takes place behind closed doors or doesn't become too extreme, we never hear about it because there's a culture of silence and it's just a normal part of life for young, aspiring rikishi. It's not hard to picture Hakuho, hyper-competitive and driven by success as he is, buying into that old-school machismo and shrugging this stuff off as normal. I think most oyakata like to use violence as a discipline tool. The trick is to make sure things don't get TOO violent. "Make sure not to break any bones". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,901 Posted February 23 17 hours ago, Godango said: Are you betting a steak it's steaks? There's too much at stake and he already layd eyes on the car. That's some inflation... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 39,798 Posted February 23 44 minutes ago, Kintamayama said: Side note-unconnected? Ex-Takanohana suddenly appears from nowhere on social media today, sporting a beard and playing with his dog, looking relaxed and happy, promising his fans that he's back and will be in touch.. Actually a week ago - what do you think of my resemblance impression? On 16/02/2024 at 11:30, Akinomaki said: Taka in new style o - some resemblance with a prominent forum member now? o Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiroiokami 14 Posted February 23 People have been super doom and gloom about Hakuho's demotion, I know it's super bad, but if he isn't forced to retire, I honestly think he'll make a fairly successful comback eventually if he keeps producing winners. Sad as a reality is, people tend to forget/forgive misdeeds, even egregious ones, if you keep winning. I think it'll be a rough few years for him and the stable, but I think the allure of being taught by the GOAT will still entice students to come to his stable. As long as he truly learns from this and doesn't let his charges get abused like that ever again, I think he'll make a comeback. If he fucks up again like this though, he needs to be shown the door, full stop. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yarimotsu 522 Posted February 23 (edited) 20 hours ago, Fashiritētā said: Could it be possible that the Yakuza got to Hokuseiho? I really don't see what part of the alleged and admitted behaviours this would impact. 20 hours ago, junsan said: A good start would be to keep hawk eyes on OTANI! Agreed, can't have anyone who acts out on a long leash. Honestly I really struggle with a lot of this conversation about scandals and it's clear much of the sumo world does as well, or at least did until a decade or two ago. What's considered acceptable seems to be changing all the time, and I have a lot more understanding for alternative moral interpretations than most others do. Obviously not condoning any of Hokuseiho's admitted behaviour. However, what I will say is I can still find a reading of all the alleged conduct where I'd describe it as harmless and mild ribbing/ slightly physical banter. On the other hand, I can find a reading which makes it look like sociopathic and criminal abuse and neglect of juniors placed in a situation with no realistic way out of the hell he put them through. There's a reason why this is my first comment in the thread and I'm usually late to comment on scandals although I read the thread pretty much in real time. Eventually though I find I have to have my own say even if it's just rambling. I don't think I'll miss Hokuseiho but I will miss the tactical puzzle of a truly large presence on the dohyo. And this revelation really puts some different light on Hakuho's regular comments over the last year. When quizzed about what kind of guidance he was giving the basics-averse Hokuseiho (from memory) his response usually focused on how "Hokuseiho has to figure out for himself what kind of wrestler he is going to be/ what kind of sumo he wants to do." Takes a darker tone now IMO. 18 hours ago, Shiroiokami said: People have been super doom and gloom about Hakuho's demotion, I know it's super bad, but if he isn't forced to retire, I honestly think he'll make a fairly successful comback eventually if he keeps producing winners. Sad as a reality is, people tend to forget/forgive misdeeds, even egregious ones, if you keep winning. I think it'll be a rough few years for him and the stable, but I think the allure of being taught by the GOAT will still entice students to come to his stable. As long as he truly learns from this and doesn't let his charges get abused like that ever again, I think he'll make a comeback. If he fucks up again like this though, he needs to be shown the door, full stop. It was just a couple weeks ago I was reading the Araiwa thread and musing over the (removed) missing handprint of a single Yokozuna on the plinths between Ekoin and the Kokugikan - Wajima. I don't think Hakuho will disgrace himself to that degree but it's kind of amazing how easy it is to make massive mistakes and completely ruin a legacy. EDIT: some of the more recent allegations / ones only repeated in tabloids are definitely over the line regardless of your particular biases. Edited February 24 by Yarimotsu 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sue 483 Posted February 23 2 hours ago, junsan said: A good start would be to keep hawk eyes on OTANI! Well, the Jawas on Tattooine keep shouting his name all the time, so there must be something there. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reonito 1,335 Posted February 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, Koorifuu said: I can't wrap my head around one thing in particular. Miyagino is a smart man, so he must understand the shaky position he was put in. Why risk it all by choosing to turn a blind eye to all of this? There's three possibilities in my mind. He was overconfident to a stratospheric level, thinking nobody could touch him He thought he had all his deshi on a tight enough leash that nobody would dare speak against him when confronted by the investigations He's got some dirt on the NSK and knew he wouldn't be thrown out, despite outwardly appearances All three are interesting on their own way. Denial/magical thinking is as good an explanation as any; smart people are not immune from blind spots and denying the obvious when it's inconvenient. Edited February 23 by Reonito 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 1,665 Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Asashosakari said: Is that still based on that nonsensical tabloid theory that the Kyokai owed Hakuho 30,000 yen for every kensho he ever won? I don't read any tabloids, do Reddit, X or any social media regarding sumo other than this forum. It's based on the factual loss of revenue caused by the pandemic followed by the most successful yokozuna ever retiring, presumably owed more than any previous yokozuna. That is a presumption which may not be correct, but I don't think my belief that he was owed more than they were capable of paying at the time is incorrect. He was massively unpopular and unwelcome with a significant number of elders in the NSK, as evidenced by the unique contract they forced him to sign. It would have been so much easier to say no and pay him off. They didn't. Why? Because they couldn't, and seemingly still can't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 39,798 Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Yarimotsu said: 4 hours ago, Fashiritētā said: Could it be possible that the Yakuza got to Hokuseiho? I really don't see what part of the alleged and admitted behaviours this would impact. Yakuza= violence groups in official terms - wearing a yakuza style kesho mawashi, like the tattoos of the yakuza, showing his intrinsic violence 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsuchinoninjin 1,248 Posted February 23 Y’all stop writing the script for the fourth installation of the Godfather movie and just wait and see if more info comes out. Kensho money gets withheld to pay taxes. Nobody has blood debt to the yakuza. A marketing company that works with Samsung and Walt Disney isn’t the zainichi toa-kai 10 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
