Kaninoyama

Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

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Posted (edited)

The fun begins, another big name, now as uchi-deshi for Hakuho: Kusano joins the heya of Kiho.

9 hours ago, Akinomaki said:
On 23/02/2024 at 15:00, Akinomaki said:

Kusano today in Kumamoto said he'll join ozumo later on and aim for ozeki and yokozuna, the heya is undetermined yet - it won't be Miyagino, but maybe he had thought about joining there till yesterday

Well, it will be Isegahama, he had planned to join where Kiho is member, his friend since nursery school. The NSK today acknowledged the ms60TD qualification for student yokozuna Naoya Kusano 草野直哉 (185cm, 160kg). He was seen today at the heya with his luggage, like the others who moved there.

 

Today at the first training of the Miyagino bunch at the new location with the natives, Hakuho coached them in mawashi, Ishiura as well - no media. Terunofuji also was there to give advice - 3 yokozuna instructing together is a rare case. Keiko started 30 minutes earlier - comment by the boss: not enough o

20240408s00005000338000p_thum.jpgo

keiko went on for 4.5h

the rikishi mingle

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the new coach after keiko went back home

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Edit: Hakuoho trained, but Takerufuji still has not restarted keiko and will continue to be kyujo for a while

Edited by Akinomaki
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15 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Why not? On who's higher authority is Isegahama obligated to accept the entire lot of Miyagino rikishi, along with Miyagino himself? 

I don't think anyone could order him to take them (maybe Hakkaku could in his role as rijicho) but that does not mean it would not be seen as his duty and obligation to look after ichimon rikishi due to him being most senior oyakata within ichimon and at least nominal head of ichimon.

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6 hours ago, Ripe said:

I don't think anyone could order him to take them (maybe Hakkaku could in his role as rijicho) but that does not mean it would not be seen as his duty and obligation to look after ichimon rikishi due to him being most senior oyakata within ichimon and at least nominal head of ichimon.

This is what I've been trying to grasp, and what you and others are confirming, though no one seems to know for sure. 

I think what I'm having a hard time coming to grips with is that notwithstanding the aforementioned duty & obligation (which I fully understand is an essential thing here in Japan), when it comes to such a significant addition like this one in terms of numbers & one very dominant personality, which could easily upset the balance of what has been an extremely successful heya, it is still befuddling to me that Isegahama would acquiesce. 

But maybe it really is as simple as Duty & Obligation, and there's no reason to read more into it than that.

And so with that--I won't. 

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1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

This is what I've been trying to grasp, and what you and others are confirming, though no one seems to know for sure. 

I think what I'm having a hard time coming to grips with is that notwithstanding the aforementioned duty & obligation (which I fully understand is an essential thing here in Japan), when it comes to such a significant addition like this one in terms of numbers & one very dominant personality, which could easily upset the balance of what has been an extremely successful heya, it is still befuddling to me that Isegahama would acquiesce. 

But maybe it really is as simple as Duty & Obligation, and there's no reason to read more into it than that.

And so with that--I won't. 

Who needs giri-choco when you can have giri-deshi to complain about? 

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2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

This is what I've been trying to grasp, and what you and others are confirming, though no one seems to know for sure. 

I think what I'm having a hard time coming to grips with is that notwithstanding the aforementioned duty & obligation (which I fully understand is an essential thing here in Japan), when it comes to such a significant addition like this one in terms of numbers & one very dominant personality, which could easily upset the balance of what has been an extremely successful heya, it is still befuddling to me that Isegahama would acquiesce. 

But maybe it really is as simple as Duty & Obligation, and there's no reason to read more into it than that.

And so with that--I won't. 

Ultimately I don't think it's really duty as much as it is pragmatism. Miyagino is currently judged unfit to run a heya, so his personnel need to be moved elsewhere. The Kyokai insisted that Miyagino-beya be moved as a unit and not split them between multiple heya as was originally rumored, since they seem to want to preserve the possibility for Miyagino-beya to reform. Isegahama-ichimon has only 5 other stables, so there already aren't a lot of options to do that, even just on a logistical level (literally not having room for 10-15 extra rikishi), and ichimon business is generally handled in-house so no chance of them asking an out-of-ichimon heya to help. SOMEONE in the ichimon has to accept them, and Isegahama seems to just be the least-bad option that fulfills the requirements. They have the room, they'd still have the balance of power against Miyagino rikishi and it's led by a former yokozuna who still seems to have a ton of influence and will be able to keep Hakuho in check.

In any case, I think everyone involved is going into this aware that this is a temporary arrangement. Either Miyagino will get himself straightened out and re-earn his heya-ownership rights so he can re-establish Miyagino-beya, or he ragequits a la Takanohana and someone else, whether Magaki or another oyakata, can move them out to a seperate stable under their own name. Frankly I'd be surprised if this goes beyond Isegahama's retirement since I have my doubts of ex-Homarefuji or whoever being able to handle it.

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18 hours ago, fwuzzle23 said:

Frankly I'd be surprised if this goes beyond Isegahama's retirement

If so, the big question is: can Miyagino be a good boy for 1.5 years?

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On 20/03/2024 at 15:33, Kintamayama said:

Asakayama summoned Miyagino to his office today for a chat. Ooshima Oyakata joined them for the first eight minutes and left. The chat lasted 30 minutes, after which neither agreed to talk to the press. As an aside, the article noted, in passing, that Asakayama will probably be the next rijicho.  I need to retire.

You rather were very prophetic, now the tabloid rumour videos on YT have as headline that it is decided that he will be the next rijicho - apparently Asakayama told in his new riji interview that he first of all wants to bring the Kyushu basho to a success and if he becomes rijicho, devote himself to reforms.

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4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

You rather were very prophetic, now the tabloid rumour videos on YT have as headline that it is decided that he will be the next rijicho - apparently Asakayama told in his new riji interview that he first of all wants to bring the Kyushu basho to a success and if he becomes rijicho, devote himself to reforms.

Well..

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11 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

You rather were very prophetic, now the tabloid rumour videos on YT have as headline that it is decided that he will be the next rijicho - apparently Asakayama told in his new riji interview that he first of all wants to bring the Kyushu basho to a success and if he becomes rijicho, devote himself to reforms.

After Hakkaku’s generation, the next generation of Y/O were the Waka-Taka era.

The only prominent member remaining is Asakayama oyakata and he is ex-Ozeki so he sorta fulfills the minimum popularity requirement.

It will be more interesting to see the next generation of riji and rijicho post Asakayama. 
 

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It seems to me that post Asakayama they'll most likely fast track Nishonoseki for rijicho, unless he messes up big time. 

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12 hours ago, dingo said:

It seems to me that post Asakayama they'll most likely fast track Nishonoseki for rijicho, unless he messes up big time. 

Do you believe that the next rijicho after Asakayama needs to be: 1) Japanese; 2) Yokozuna or Ozeki; 3) "next generation", i.e. 2015 < (intai date) < 2025?

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Posted (edited)

Maybe at some point they'll realize they should hire professionals to run their organization.  I can't imagine any other sport being run exclusively by its former top-performing athletes.

Edited by Gurowake
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4 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Maybe at some point they'll realize they should hire professionals to run their organization.  I can't imagine any other sport being run exclusively by its former top-performing athletes.

The next Hakuho will arrive and make a serious run for Futabayama's win streak before that happens

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11 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Do you believe that the next rijicho after Asakayama needs to be: 1) Japanese; 2) Yokozuna or Ozeki; 3) "next generation", i.e. 2015 < (intai date) < 2025?

I personally am agnostic, I don't really care what's the background of the next rijicho as long as he's capable. 

However, I do believe that the Kyokai will choose exactly according to those criteria that you lined out. The mess with Hakuho will only reinforce this. 

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3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Maybe at some point they'll realize they should hire professionals to run their organization.  I can't imagine any other sport being run exclusively by its former top-performing athletes.

I'd rather leave organizations like FIFA and IOC in the hands of those "professionals", thank you very much.

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5 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

I'd rather leave organizations like FIFA and IOC in the hands of those "professionals", thank you very much.

Sumo needs to get some of those Swiss corporate lawyers in there. Maybe they can have one basho in Qatar every year, that will surely bring in the bucks.

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On 12/04/2024 at 06:58, Jakusotsu said:

I'd rather leave organizations like FIFA and IOC in the hands of those "professionals", thank you very much.

Well, at least the current President of the IOC has a background as a former top-performing athlete. Dr. Thomas Bach was a former foil fencer and among many other titles he won a foil team gold medal at the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal and a team gold medal at the World Fencing Championships in 1977. But this does not prevent him from making highly questionable statements and decisions.

Ganzohnesushi

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14 hours ago, Inside Sport Japan said:

They already tried that ;-)

The first rijicho (96 years ago) was a general in the army with no sumo background.

Interesting, I researched this a little earlier this week and was wondering about those outfits. I can't find a wikipedia page or any information on Hirose Mananori, but the one for Isamu Takeshita states he was the third rijicho (despite sumowrestling.fandom listing him as second and wikipedia not listing him at all) and was also a military guy (the article mentions he had previous connections to sumo, but doesn't specify). Did someone actually precede him, and do you have any idea what Takeshita's involvement was in sumo prior to becoming president?

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Posted (edited)
On 15/04/2024 at 02:46, incognito said:

Interesting, I researched this a little earlier this week and was wondering about those outfits. I can't find a wikipedia page or any information on Hirose Mananori, but the one for Isamu Takeshita states he was the third rijicho (despite sumowrestling.fandom listing him as second and wikipedia not listing him at all) and was also a military guy (the article mentions he had previous connections to sumo, but doesn't specify). Did someone actually precede him, and do you have any idea what Takeshita's involvement was in sumo prior to becoming president?

The position held by Takeshita and previously two others in the NSK was 会長 kaichō, not 理事長 rijichō. My understanding is that it wasn't an executive role; ja.wiki states that it wasn't unusual for high-ranking military to "lead" civilian organizations at the time, and similarly after WWII politicians and bureaucrats would often be appointed for such roles (but not in the Kyokai).

That being said, I'm not sure how much of an executive role Masanori Hirose had as the first rijichō underneath the three kaichō, either. Him being part of the historical line of NSK rijichō with all the sumo guys that succeeded him may be more of a coincidental thing where the same position constituted two rather different roles across time. (The fact that the position went unfilled for six years between Hirose and ex-Tsunenohana also points in that direction.)

Edited by Asashosakari
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1 hour ago, Kaitetsu said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C5-Y4_UrbkF/?igsh=aTZmem5pYW1paHJs
 

After a long time away, Ishiura posted in his instagram, apparently saying that Kurokage and more surprisingly Otani are retiring.

Not surprised about Otani, he went 1-6 each time in the upper 1/3 of makushita. Maybe he realised that he can’t hack it.

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4 hours ago, rhyen said:

Not surprised about Otani, he went 1-6 each time in the upper 1/3 of makushita. Maybe he realised that he can’t hack it.

Stories were emerging about his behavior way before Hokuseihou. Good choice to move to baseball, though- very successful, but he needs a new interpreter.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Good choice to move to baseball, though- very successful, but he needs a new interpreter.

Took me longer to get this than it should, but in my defense, the MLB & baseball in general are a non-factor where I come from.

Edited by Koorifuu

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6 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Took me longer to get this than it should, but in my defense, the MLB & baseball in general are a non-factor where I come from.

Non-factor here too, but what he's been doing is way beyond any factor. I am an avid baseball fan though, non-factor here notwithstanding. Growing up in Japan, that's all the sports we had, except sumo.

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