Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[Chartorenji 235]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

...Unless Hokuseiho was just the tip of the iceberg?

I mean, Hakuoho has been the one dude coming out of this looking better due to the whole wallet stuff. Would be shocked if he's messing up too. 

[Asashosakari 18,786]

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

Yeah, what's going on over there? This all seems like a drastic overreaction to what so far has been described as one really bad apple. That's certainly something we've seen in other heya recently, without anything remotely like this response.

I'm pretty sure practicing "self-restraint" is a very common thing post-scandal in stables, it's just that it's more publicized here because it's essentially being mandated from above since stripped-of-his-power Miyagino cannot order it himself.

[dingo 1,160]

Probably also they want to avoid reporters etc cornering any of the rikishi and pressing out even more dirt or gossip. Of course anyone who would want to tip off the media about something can do so online but I'd guess they want to avoid any additional publicity. The heya is in enough turmoil as it is. 

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

2 hours ago, Fashiritētā said:

On the one hand , he’s great for PR.

So was Takanohana. Immensely popular with Japanese fans. I remember going to a basho shortly before he was exiled and he received a huge ovation just for entering the auditorium to assume shimpan duties, camera flashes going off all over the place as fans rushed to get pictures of him. 

And ultimately, his popularity with the public at large couldn't save him. 

Edited February 28 by Kaninoyama

[Gospodin 187]

Wow. Missed a few months. I can imagine how seven-year Cicadas would feel. You vanish in 2016 and...

[Sokkenaiyama 76]

On 28/02/2024 at 14:35, Gaijingai said:

John Gunning’s Solution to Bullying

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2024/02/28/sumo/sumo-violence-prevention/

That's an interesting take, and it would be an actual good idea if they weren't all in on it (or at least condoning violence as a necessary evil for development).

[Jabbamaru 166]

Hypocrites. They were lenient with Abi and Asanoyama (who literally put people's lives at risk just to go to a whorehouse) but they were draconian with the gaijins.
Bando de xenófobos essa turma do Hakkako.

[Katooshu 3,132]

Well, I wouldn't say they were lenient with those two, and Abi and Asanoyama also didn't punch people, light them on fire, destroy personal property, or steal on an ongoing basis that we know of.

[MrGrumpyGills 119]

Whorehouse? IIRC they went drinking with supporters, which yes, was forbidden at the time and they were appropriately punished for it. As for putting people's lives at risk, certainly not literally, most likely not even figuratively.

[Yamanashi 3,724]

4 hours ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

Whorehouse? IIRC they went drinking with supporters, which yes, was forbidden at the time and they were appropriately punished for it. As for putting people's lives at risk, certainly not literally, most likely not even figuratively.

I think Asanoyama's infraction may have involved a snack hostess or two, but as the COVID years move off in our rear view mirrors, it may seem less evil to sneak out during curfew than to harm inferiors and display psychopathic behavior.  And Hokuseiho has been a Sekitori for at least ten basho, so he should have figured out how to comport himself (if that were possible).

[Godango 956]

Yeah it's apples and oranges. I'm in the camp that Abi and Asanoyama got what they deserved, and I also think Hokuseiho is getting what he deserves. Is Hakuho? Probably.

First-time offenses of breaking of COVID-protocol didn't warrant forced intai. They lost a significant portion of their prime career, and Asanoyama arguably lost his Yokozuna window. I'm sure they've both learned their lesson (and if they haven't, good riddance for the next indiscretion).

Sustained physical assault and psychological abuse warrants expulsion. You don't get to 'learn your lesson'. Hakuho gets that chance (kinda), but he is on a tight leash for letting the abuse happen. Makes sense.

Conspiracy theories aside, while the NSK may be inconsistent it's not like any of the above are unable to be interpreted as reasonable disciplinary responses.

[dada78641 884]

7 hours ago, Jabbamaru said:

Hypocrites. They were lenient with Abi and Asanoyama (who literally put people's lives at risk just to go to a whorehouse)

Guys, please, a hostess club is not a whore house. There's no prostitution taking place there even secretly. It's honestly just pretty girls who pour your drink and chat with you, nothing more.

[Muhomatsu 224]

14 hours ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

Whorehouse? IIRC they went drinking with supporters, which yes, was forbidden at the time and they were appropriately punished for it. As for putting people's lives at risk, certainly not literally, most likely not even figuratively.

You obviously don’t live with elderly family members with lung cancer and immune problems.  Or at least wish such people don’t exist, so you don’t have to think about how certain behaviors do put people’s lives at risk.  
Grrr.  This mentality makes me so mad.  Look at excess deaths. Look at excess illnesses. The figures are there.  The deaths occurred and are occurring.  Lives are at risk, even if that fact makes you uncomfortable. 
 

Edit:  one more word- Shōbushi (勝武士). 

Edited March 7 by Muhomatsu

[Muhomatsu 224]

9 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I think Asanoyama's infraction may have involved a snack hostess or two, but as the COVID years move off in our rear view mirrors, it may seem less evil to sneak out during curfew than to harm inferiors and display psychopathic behavior.  And Hokuseiho has been a Sekitori for at least ten basho, so he should have figured out how to comport himself (if that were possible).

It’s not in the rearview mirrors for those who love immune-compromised friends and family members.   
Most don’t want to think of Covid as a problem anymore.  I get it. I wish I could do that, too.  I think most people don’t want to think of the pandemic as a problem because, if they do, they know they will have to change the way they act and how they live.  Or recognize the complete failure of public health across the pandemic. Of course, there are other solutions.  Instead of “as we look back on the pandemic”; keep it in the current tense and advocate for measures to help- clean air in schools, offices, and health care- access to PREP medications, and additional sick leave.  
pretending the problem no longer exists won’t help anyone 

[BuBa 72]

11 hours ago, Godango said:

Yeah it's apples and oranges. I'm in the camp that Abi and Asanoyama got what they deserved, and I also think Hokuseiho is getting what he deserves. Is Hakuho? Probably.

First-time offenses of breaking of COVID-protocol didn't warrant forced intai. They lost a significant portion of their prime career, and Asanoyama arguably lost his Yokozuna window. I'm sure they've both learned their lesson (and if they haven't, good riddance for the next indiscretion).

Sustained physical assault and psychological abuse warrants expulsion. You don't get to 'learn your lesson'. Hakuho gets that chance (kinda), but he is on a tight leash for letting the abuse happen. Makes sense.

Conspiracy theories aside, while the NSK may be inconsistent it's not like any of the above are unable to be interpreted as reasonable disciplinary responses.

Get what they deserve, good riddance?, oh please.  Do you really think Abi and Asanoyama are the only once who “bravely” sneaked out. Or do you think Hokuseiho is who invented all this abuse? 
These guys are just the once who were got caught in a media cycle. I don’t understand this whole gettin on high horse, are you people just opened your eyes.

I feel sorry especially for Asanoyama who had such a talent and momentum. It is like looking at beautiful bird with clipped wings right now.

And btw “Sustained physical assault and psychological abuse” is a definition of sumo. 

[themistyseas 226]

55 minutes ago, BuBa said:

And btw “Sustained physical assault and psychological abuse” is a definition of sumo. 

Clearly it isn't or shouldn't be, in the eyes of the general public and in the eyes of a Kyokai which relies on the general public.

[Akinomaki 39,768]

To me it looks more like the usual escalation in punishment for Hakuho and not a scheme to drive him out of the NSK, though every day hours of videos on YT and corresponding tabloid articles point in that direction. Just like Abi and Asanoyama got more severe punishment than those before them for what was part of their job description a short time before, going to amusement bars with supporters, when the NSK was pushing for a change of attitude and trying to enforce new rules, now Hakuho gets the latest escalation in shisho punishment for the new compliance rules violation. Just like Asanoyama and Abi didn't quit, though they wanted to at first, Hakuho can return if he accepts his punishment and works for his return.

The other scandals around him resurface, the manager who vanished with his money, talk of adultery and so on. He can forget the plan for a new heya in Nihonbashi for now, apparently the premises bought for him by a tanimachi will stay a parking lot for a few years.

zakzak.co.jp/article/20240307-H3BAQJJ7PJNHNDHCPEUGNFSR6Y/

https://smart-flash.jp/sports/276646/1/1/

Hokuseiho may follow his predecessor bullies into RIZIN, the head there seems to have shown interest in him, after proper training https://www.dailyshincho.jp/article/2024/03070545/

Edited March 7 by Akinomaki

[Yamanashi 3,724]

4 hours ago, Muhomatsu said:

It’s not in the rearview mirrors for those who love immune-compromised friends and family members.   
Most don’t want to think of Covid as a problem anymore.  I get it. I wish I could do that, too.  I think most people don’t want to think of the pandemic as a problem because, if they do, they know they will have to change the way they act and how they live.  Or recognize the complete failure of public health across the pandemic. Of course, there are other solutions.  Instead of “as we look back on the pandemic”; keep it in the current tense and advocate for measures to help- clean air in schools, offices, and health care- access to PREP medications, and additional sick leave.  
pretending the problem no longer exists won’t help anyone 

I'm sorry for your situation.  I wrote "it may seem", which deals with perceptions, not reality.  Incidentally, I came down with COVID while in the hospital in 2023.  I would not want to live in a world of isolation and closed schools and failed businesses from March 2020 to March 2024. 

[Godango 956]

5 hours ago, BuBa said:

Get what they deserve, good riddance?, oh please.  Do you really think Abi and Asanoyama are the only once who “bravely” sneaked out. Or do you think Hokuseiho is who invented all this abuse? 
These guys are just the once who were got caught in a media cycle. I don’t understand this whole gettin on high horse, are you people just opened your eyes.

I feel sorry especially for Asanoyama who had such a talent and momentum. It is like looking at beautiful bird with clipped wings right now.

And btw “Sustained physical assault and psychological abuse” is a definition of sumo. 

First off, chill.

But to your points:

Q: Do you really think Abi and Asanoyama are the only once who “bravely” sneaked out. Or do you think Hokuseiho is who invented all this abuse?
A: I do not think they are the above are the only bad actors, and I never claimed I did. I also think there are lots of criminals in the world who have never been caught for their crimes and so have never been punished/faced justice. That doesn't mean that those criminals that were caught don't deserve to be punished/face justice.

Q: I feel sorry especially for Asanoyama who had such a talent and momentum. It is like looking at beautiful bird with clipped wings right now.
A: Cool. I don't. Two others were caught before him at lesser ranks and made examples of with long suspensions, and he broke the rule anyway.

The 'clipped wings' analogy also doesn't hold. He is 100% free to win bouts, tournaments and rise in the ranks, he is just no longer capable. If Terunofuji can make Yokozuna after all the adversity he faced due to illness and injury; Asanoyama failing to make it after putting himself in a situation where he ought to have known he'd face suspension and rank loss is on him.

Q: And btw “Sustained physical assault and psychological abuse” is a definition of sumo.
A: No, it literally isn't. I understand you likely mean it's always been a part of sumo (and still widely is), but it shouldn't be. And if that's the part of sumo culture you enjoy, then okay I guess. But it kinda makes discussing this further pointless; as I'm never going to agree to normalising or accepting violence and cruelty. 

Also mods, sorry for contributing to this tangent, it's probably time for it to be split to another topic.

[Akinomaki 39,768]

Isegahama-ichimon on a near day will hold a general meeting and decide on the future of Miyagino-beya. Tamagaki revealed that there are rikishi who want to quit. Today Oshima-beya rikishi were there for degeiko, while the total seclusion of the heya to the outside continues. Pre-basho preparations are complete, they have trained properly, but motivation is a problem.

Miyagino is scheduled to be at the general meeting, Tamagaki in respect to going on as acting shisho gives a clear "no". Except for medical treatment and emergencies, house arrest for all continues, "Going to the basho and return, any eating out is forbidden" - as mentioned before, of course no senshuraku party.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202403070001107.html

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

7 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

To me it looks more like the usual escalation in punishment for Hakuho and not a scheme to drive him out of the NSK, though every day hours of videos on YT and corresponding tabloid articles point in that direction.

NSK: "Miyagino-kun, here's your new desk by the window with a nice view of the outside."

Miyagino: "Where are my underlings?"

NSK: "Well that's the good news, you don't have any!"

Miyagino: "Well then, what are my duties?"

NSK: "Even better news. You don't have any of those either! But here's a nice stack of newspapers to keep you busy."

Miyagino: "So I'm not fired then?"

NSK: "Fired? How could you think such a thing?! Now, we have a basho to prepare for, so why don't you go take a nice lunch break followed by a long afternoon nap, and we'll call you if we need you!"

Edited March 8 by Kaninoyama

[Reonito 1,335]

 

[Akinomaki 39,768]

Latest Weekly Post rumour claims Hakuho plans to establish a new NSK - that sounds like an interesting idea

Should appear in more readable format in a few days

[rokudenashi 291]

LOL

[RabidJohn 1,663]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Latest Weekly Post rumour claims Hakuho plans to establish a new NSK ...

Too soon!
By 25 days if I can still count.