Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[Yamanashi 3,724]

Well, this is partly a Japanese cultural thing, so I haven't a clue what will happen.  However, the primary villain here is Hokuseiho; the published accusations are beyond horrible.  Hakuho himself may have pooh-poohed whatever fraction of this got to his attention, but I think there's no evidence that he himself mishandled any of his charges (certainly no golf clubs, etc.)

Meanwhile, Hakuho has been a juggernaut of PR for the NSK; not to belabor over the parade car and the other corporate outreach, but if he's tossed out they also toss out the Hakuho Cup and the other recruiting and PR programs he has involved himself in.

 

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

I’m wondering if Hakuho knew this was coming. Hence not running for the board.

[Sokkenaiyama 76]

On 26/02/2024 at 19:29, Gurowake said:

It's hard for me to believe that the level of sadism displayed by some of the reported actions would be seen as acceptable at all, but I've heard stories recounted by people involved in incidents that I thought similarly sadistic that the person involved in setting it up just laughed it off as the type of prank that was common in those days.  The stories I remember though didn't involve hurting people physically or economically in as direct of ways as Hokuseiho may have.  That doesn't mean though that such kinds of effects aren't found in the sport still, and that Miyagino-beya and Hokuseiho's only problem was that they got caught, and some of that might be anti-Hakuho bias.  If it means that this kind of thing stops in other heyas, that would be great, but I'm more concerned that this type of thing is so widespread and Hokuseiho was just imitating it, meaning that the other heya may just see the fact that he was caught as evidence of how bad of an idea it is to be a foreigner, as the Japanese don't rat out their own like that.  It may well have been that no other *foreigner* acted this way before, and perhaps Hokuseiho thought he wasn't a foreigner because he had a Japanese shusshin, but that's not how it works in reality.

There's only one problem - other foreigners HAVE acted this way in the past, and HAVE paid the price for it. And as for Hokuseiho being perceived as a foreigner or not, just ask any Japanese and you might be surprised to get a resounding yes (same goes for Hakuho, for whatever that's worth).

That said, the violence we see exposed is probably just the tip of the iceberg.

[Yarimotsu 522]

Some of the quotes in this article seem a little crazy. Are they all from Tamagaki?

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202402270001337.html

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

35 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said:

Some of the quotes in this article seem a little crazy. Are they all from Tamagaki?

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202402270001337.html

If you're being charitable you could say most of those rules are to protect rikishi from the media storm but it does seem like he is saying that if the heya is gone then all the rikishi are gone too with no chance of transferring elsewhere. 

Imagine getting bullied by Hokuseiho and then you get punished for it, not a great look there.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

24 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

If you're being charitable you could say most of those rules are to protect rikishi from the media storm but it does seem like he is saying that if the heya is gone then all the rikishi are gone too with no chance of transferring elsewhere. 

Imagine getting bullied by Hokuseiho and then you get punished for it, not a great look there.

I don't think 力士たち is meant to refer to all the rikishi in the stable, just the hypothetical ones who cause further offense. To me, that comment just reads as, "unlike Hokuseiho, the next guys won't be going down alone, they'll take the heya with them".

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

My interpretation of Tamagaki's wording is that the gravity of the situation at Miyagino-beya is so severe that no other misstep will be tolerated by the Kyokai, and thus the need for these strict rules. And if there is another misstep, as Tsuchinoninjin said, both the heya and all the rikishi in it are, in his view,* toast.

"再発があった場合、部屋も力士たちもアウト" (the も も grammar here places the heya and heya's rikishi on equal footing--they're both out (done for) equally*). 

*Now, whether all the remaining innocent rikishi would actually be finished or not is, as Asashosakari said, questionable and unlikely ("Sorry Hakuoho, no more sumo for you!" Um, no).

But the severity of the situation demands that Tamagaki make such a dire warning to the heya, so that they treat the situation as though that is the case. 

Edited February 28 by Kaninoyama

[Ryoshishokunin 261]

1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

But the severity of the situation demands that Tamagaki make such a dire warning to the heya, so that they treat the situation as though that is the case. 

which, as usual, implies that everyone should sweep everything under the rug so no one gets punished.  

[Barutokai 62]

20 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said:

Maybe Hakuho is so competitive and with such a big ego that he will persist out of spite, 'They think they can break the great Hakuho, eh? I'll show them! I will be 100x more humble than anyone has ever been!'

Gives Ranma ½ vibes. Competing in and mastering even the most ridiculous challenges. Wouldn't be too bad for Hakuho to read that Manga

[Morning 74]

Hakuho's competitive ego is the reason I'm surprised this situation occurred and he didn't have a closer thumb on his deishi to deal with it before it became an issue.

[Gaijingai 1,527]

John Gunning’s Solution to Bullying

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2024/02/28/sumo/sumo-violence-prevention/

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

7 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

*Now, whether all the remaining innocent rikishi would actually be finished or not is, as Asashosakari said, questionable and unlikely ("Sorry Hakuoho, no more sumo for you!" Um, no). 

From the pics it looked like Tamagaki got ambushed in a random parking lot by a group of reporters, so probably talking off the cuff in the moment in any case.

It looks dire for Hakuho, I think the pendulum will swing back, but will it be in time? A couple of guys in Japan who are the only people I know in real life that follow sumo closely were both life long Hakuho haters, have been upset about NSK treatment of Hakuho. It really makes me wonder if things are happening in the background of relevant koenkai. Well, I'm sure there were the same voices for Takanohana as well...

[Akinomaki 39,771]

The janitor arriving

ooooo o o o o o o o o

o

he goes in, the rikishi are not allowed to go out

press and public forbidden

oo

now also in English

oo

only the caretaker talks to the press, first day of office

  o o o o o o

Edited February 28 by Akinomaki

[Yamanashi 3,724]

Tamagaki: "At last, I am the head of a heya!"

Sea of reporters: "Tamagaki-sama, blah blah wink wink nudge nudge blah blah"

Tamagaki: "Oh, sh*t."

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The janitor arriving

He doesn't look too healthy. 

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

he goes in, the rikishi are not allowed to go out

press and public forbidden

Am I the only one getting the feeling that everyone is getting punished at Miyagino, not just the shisho himself?

This story might be more complicated than we think.

[Katooshu 3,135]

"Oh sh!t, what did I get myself into?"

Edited February 28 by Katooshu

[dingo 1,160]

Tamagaki looks like a regular Winston Wolf arriving to the scene. 

[Reonito 1,335]

2 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Am I the only one getting the feeling that everyone is getting punished at Miyagino, not just the shisho himself?

This story might be more complicated than we think.

Yeah, what's going on over there? This all seems like a drastic overreaction to what so far has been described as one really bad apple. That's certainly something we've seen in other heya recently, without anything remotely like this response.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

9 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Yeah, what's going on over there? This all seems like a drastic overreaction to what so far has been described as one really bad apple. That's certainly something we've seen in other heya recently, without anything remotely like this response.

...Unless Hokuseiho was just the tip of the iceberg?

[Fashiritētā 169]

10 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Yeah, what's going on over there? This all seems like a drastic overreaction to what so far has been described as one really bad apple. That's certainly something we've seen in other heya recently, without anything remotely like this response.

The hate for Hakuho and wanting him out must be pretty high

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

5 minutes ago, Fashiritētā said:

The hate for Hakuho and wanting him out must be pretty high

If so, they could have kicked him out already.

[Fashiritētā 169]

6 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

If so, they could have kicked him out already.

On the one hand , he’s great for PR.

On the other hand, they want to be heavy handed and show they mean business (last chance)

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

7 minutes ago, Fashiritētā said:

they want to be heavy handed and show they mean business (last chance)

But why does it look like they are punishing his deshi?

[Fashiritētā 169]

41 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

But why does it look like they are punishing his deshi?

My guess is they are being briefed on how things will be from now on , and the deshi wont be let out until they fully comply with what the new oyakata and elders want.

Wouldnt surprise me if they had the deshi sign a compliance contract.

Just guessing of course.

Edited February 28 by Fashiritētā

[fwuzzle23 66]

3 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Am I the only one getting the feeling that everyone is getting punished at Miyagino, not just the shisho himself?

This story might be more complicated than we think.

I guess you could view it as collective punishment in the sense that none of them reported what Hokuseiho was doing either, it was a family member of one of the victims that tipped off the NSK that anything was happening. If nothing else, maybe they need to be reminded that they are expected to report things like that.

More likely, though, it's just damage control: limiting their ability to make the situation worse by saying or doing the wrong thing, and things like the senshuraku party would be ripe opportunities for outsiders to bait them into doing exactly that.

For what it's worth, Tamagaki himself doesn't seem to see them as potential troublemakers (even says he feels sorry for them), but this is a heya-wide issue and any more misbehavior will reflect badly on Miyagino, so he wants them toeing the line.

Edited February 28 by fwuzzle23